8mm Forum: Beaulieu 708 EL Headache

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Posted by Isaac Mathes (Member # 1332) on November 11, 2008, 08:59 AM:

Greetings to the 8mm Forum community!

I am a cinematographer who dabbles in Super 8 on his own film projects.

Alas, it was I who purchased the Beaulieu 708 EL projector listed on eBay back in January, 2008. A few of you in the Forum commented on that listing and thought that this particular make and model of projector, coming from a seller with zero feedback, should be avoided.

Well, weighing “caveat emptor” versus “carpe diem”, I bought the thing.

Upon arrival, the 708 EL hardly looked used at all, except for some cracks in the flimsy plastic housing covering the backside. But when I plugged it in, it wouldn’t run. Only the “on” light lit up and a faint, low hum came out of the machine’s motor.

To my untrained eye, nothing looked broken or loose inside. I packed up the machine and sent it to Leon Norris in Pennsylvania. (To make matters worse, en route to him the UPS folks apparently dropped the package and bent the projector’s instrument panel, which juts out along the bottom.) Leon’s advice after opening the Beaulieu up and looking around, ‘I’m not sure what’s wrong with it. I can’t make it go. Buy an Elmo.’

Next, I sent the ill-starred 708 EL to Connie Lang on Long Island for a second opinion. His response was, ‘I can’t fix this. You could try sending it to a specialist in Europe (at significant cost) or you could get a different make of projector, for which parts are more readily available.’

My question to the Forum is, what would you do now? Is it worth sending the Beaulieu 708 EL to someone else, to a Beaulieu specialist in Europe (I’ve read a post in the Forum about a certain “Bjorn” in Sweden, for example), or should I just cut my losses and look for an Elmo?

Secondly, instead of junking the 708 EL outright, is there anyone out there who would want parts from it?

Incidentally, the eBay seller’s listing for this projector said “runs great”, but, after several e-mail exchanges with them, it is my hunch they had no experience with actually using this- or any other- projector.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

Isaac Mathes
“emptor stolidus”

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on November 11, 2008, 10:55 AM:

Sounds like a machine that I actually owned. The model you have could have been in my basement. I traded it along with some films and rewinds. I got a splicer and an Elmo ST1200hd.

If that Ebay seller was from Massachusetts, then this should be correct. I originally bought the unit from a man in California. And it was upon shipping to me that UPS damaged the bottom of the unit.

When I got mine, the projector did run but had no sound. It turned out the playback lines on the circuit board were cracked when UPS dropped the item. A technician from a local shop performed a bypass with soldering, and did restore sound playback.

The machine ran OK, although it was in need of servicing and I could not find someone who could do it. When the oppertunity for trade arose I could not pass it up. The stuff I got in exchange worked extremely well as of last night infact.

I am not saying or can I prove this was my machine. But your description of what you have sounds like a perfect match.

The newer version of the 708EL is a beauty, where mine and probably yours is way outdated. It is similiar to the Elmo ST1200HD. The current version of the 708EL is more like the GS1200. New 708EL units are custom made and as far as I know they are about (guessing) $5,000.00 USD each.

Based on your letters to the seller and your hunch they know nothing about the machine....if you paid recently and did so by Paypal I encourage you to file a claim for refund...although it may be too late for you to due this. Paypal buyer protection is great. If you don't receive an item, or you purchase one item but receive something else, PP Buyer protection gives you rights that you can execute and is justified.

CG

Posted by Antonio Costa Mota (Member # 221) on November 11, 2008, 01:05 PM:

Hi Isaac
What is the lens fitted on the Beaulieu 708 EL ?
Thanks and regards.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on November 11, 2008, 01:12 PM:

In addition to trying to get PayPal compensation, surely you should look to the courier that caused damage?

I wouldn't throw it away. It must have some useful parts. There are Beaulieu enthusiasts. One forum member with a Beaulieu is I believe Adam/Alan Rik, who may also be in NY? Correct me if I'm wrong...

It also should have a superb lens! Should be a 1.1 with a 11mm back end zoom. I can see above there is already interest in that! I might be interested myself! The lens would sell alone on eBay I'm sure. Good luck!

Posted by Isaac Mathes (Member # 1332) on November 11, 2008, 02:59 PM:

Thanks for your advice, gentlemen.

The Beaulieu 708 EL seller was in the Los Angeles area.

I'll look closer at PayPal and UPS' recompensation policies. Mr. Norris' bill for repair services notes that damage was done by the shipper. It was well-packed. The projector's casting was broken by the impact. Must have fallen from an airplane!

No one thinks it worthwhile to send the 708 EL projector to yet another repair specialist, in Europe?

Ironic that after all the bashings its taken, the lamp still turns on.

btw, Antonio, the lens is a Schneider Kreuznach Xenovaron 1:1.3/12-30. [Confused]

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on November 11, 2008, 03:06 PM:

Isaac, I'm a former Beaulieu user and I'm sorry to read about your trouble.

If the transaction occured in January, it's too late to try to get something from Paypal (there's a 60 days limit for claims).

Alan Rik, one of our members who lives in NYC, could indeed be interested in the machine for parts. If the lens is a Schneider Xenovaron, you might get some little money out of it.

And before comitting to buy another machine, tell us what you wanna do with it, and we'll sure tell you which projector is best suited for your needs. [Wink]

Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on November 12, 2008, 12:39 AM:

Remember,the people who made that machine also made the dreaded Heurtier,the worst projector in the history of mankind!

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on November 12, 2008, 01:50 AM:

John, there's no connection between Beaulieu and Heurtier. The 708 had flaws (finicky focusing system because the gate was getting too hot, and an average sound unit) but was otherwise an excellent and robust machine. It was designed by the Buisse-Botazzi team who are still manufacturing the finest portable 35mm projectors in the business.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on November 12, 2008, 02:06 AM:

Hi Isaac,
Sorry to hear about your 708El woes! When I received mine from Germany stated to be in 100% working condition...this was not so. My machine turned on but the speed fluctuated and it wasn't threading properly.
I sent mine directly to Bjorn of Beaulieu Sweden to have him take a look. He basically replaced the motor, the pull down claw and I believe some minor parts. He also redid any loose solder joints and tested everything. Now my machine runs beautifully.
I purchased it for $700 but had to pay another $900 including shipping to get it to where its at now. Would I do it again? Maybe but my model is a later 708EL Stereo model. Cosmetically its in very good condition as well.
I was able to have the seller reimburse me for $300 of the repairs ...he went half with me. (I didn't want to charge him for the shipping to and from Sweden)
I wouldn't junk it yet. See if Duall Camera in NYC can take a look. They are expensive but your machine in working condition should still be worth around $800 or so. Let us know how it goes! If worse comes to worse I might be interested in the unit as a spare for parts. I find with the 708, the 2 bladed shutter and the fast pull down claw make for a machine that while not "whiter" than the GS Xenon is brighter with its 150 watt lamp. Focusing on mine never drifts and the sound when hooked up to external speakers is very nice. The internal speakers not so hot. [Smile]

When working they are up there with the Elmo GS1200....almost.

Posted by Isaac Mathes (Member # 1332) on November 12, 2008, 09:10 AM:

Alan, I'll give Duall a call and get their opinion on whether my 708 EL can be repaired. Sending to Bjorn in Sweden would be prohibitively expensive for me at this point.

There are two English language manuals with the 708 EL- they were printed in 1978. Not sure if this accurately dates the projector. 1978 would make this an older model, yes?

I also have a Bolex SM80 with a Bolex Multicoated 1.2/12.5-25 lens. It runs, but is finicky. I think the pulldown mechanism is old and worn. The rewind function works when the speed is set at 18 fps, but not at 24fps, etc. Anyone know if this projector is readily repairable?

Jean-Marc, I need a Super 8 projector for at-home review of images I've shot on Super 8 at 24fps (no sound), and for transfers to digital video. I shoot the projected image "off the wall", without speed control or a special shutter, and edit the images in Final Cut Pro. I intend to go back and conform the Super 8 master positive and optically blow up to a larger film format for the film's release. (see my Optical Blowups topic.)

So minimally, I require a projector that is bright, sharp, steady and runs at a fairly even 24fps. A projector customized for transfers would be a plus- as it would allow me to "see what I was getting"- in terms of image detail and shot duration- from the outset.

Thanks to all for commenting-

Isaac

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on November 12, 2008, 09:34 AM:

Isaac, basically, you need something like an Elmo ST180. Properly maintained, these puppies will last for years. 12v/100w bulb, steady picture. They usually come with a 1.3 lens but can be fitted with a 1.1 or 1.0 for enhance sharpness and brightness.
After a good warm-up, they will keep their speed steady. As far as I remember, there's a small pot hidden in the machine that will tweak the speed +/- one frame. It's then dead easy to play with speed in FCP (I work with it on an almost daily basis... [Wink]

)

Since you are in NY, you should definitely try to get together with Alan.

Posted by Chip Carpenter (Member # 1330) on November 12, 2008, 11:03 AM:

Isaac - while probably overkill - there is currently an Elmo GS-1200 ETC (telecine unit) up on ebay - currently listed at $450 with 1 bid . . .
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=2503229062 71

Chip

Posted by Mike Tynus (Member # 1108) on November 12, 2008, 02:21 PM:

I once had a GS1200 ETC model that was really nice.
It allowed transfer at 24fps and had a switch for 25fps (for PAL capture I'm presuming). It didn't have record capabilities so that panel was just blank. The one thing I didn't like about the machine was that the aperture was fixed at a 1.85:1 ratio.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on November 13, 2008, 10:53 AM:

That's really odd. Why would they do that? Perhaps it was a special mod.

Posted by Mike Nyberg (Member # 838) on November 14, 2008, 05:48 PM:

Give Pardee's Cameras in Sacramento a call. They still have a great guy who services many items and see what they say. They have a 1-800 number somewhere. I know the folks there, but I do not work there.

Cheers,
Mike

PS - I had them service my Nikon AF lens and my 8mm editor.

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