8mm Forum: Who Buys Red Prints?

This is topic Who Buys Red Prints? in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004953

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on November 06, 2009, 11:28 PM:

I have some film that are just beet red where fade is concerned. I see often that people selling red prints on EBAY still manage to sell them off. Who buys red prints and what is the reasoning behind it? Are the prints being used for other purposes? I can't imagine that collectors would actually show off a print that has no color left to a group of people and actually expect that they (the audience) would want to sit through something so visually distressing.

Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on November 06, 2009, 11:59 PM:

In my case,because of budget restraints,I'll buy red features if they are cheap.Stick on the old blue filter and watch.I love Hammer Films and a lot of the Derann Hammer is red.So if you want to get rid of red features,let me know.I pass on red shorts however.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on November 07, 2009, 12:47 AM:

So what color shorts do you wear John? [Razz]

No seriously sometimes that is the only way to get your favorite movies. It is like buying dupes in larger gauges, the difference in price can be staggering...When it comes to B-westerns and noir stuff, I'll even go the way of B&W versions of color features. I always figure...if it is a film i really want I'll get what I can when I can, and if I have a chance (and the funds) to get an upgrade later on great, but at least I have what I have now ....

Oh and John.....I friggin love the hammer stuff, but don't have any on 8...I have the snorkel, Stranglers of Bombay, Unholy Four on 16mm though...and yes they are all B/W

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on November 07, 2009, 02:36 AM:

I would never buy or watch a red feature. Not in a million years. It would drive me crazy. I really cannot understand how anyone can sit through one.
So...um...thats a no from me...(ahem)!!!
[Big Grin]

Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on November 07, 2009, 04:44 AM:

I buy lots of faded prints aswell, due to budget restraints.
For me it's not that big a problem, I enjoy the fact that it's film so much that the colours don't bother me that much unless it's reeeeally bad.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on November 07, 2009, 05:03 AM:

One the most watched and enjoyed features I ever owned was a 16mm "Tales of Terror". Bought it at a convention for £25.

Maybe the fade lent itself to the subject, but it was one one the most enjoyed and projected 16mm films I've had, and perfect except for having faded.

Sold it a few years on for £25. Marked it up honestly as a completely faded print...buy 4 good quality 16mm reels for £25, get the film free!

It sold and someone else is now enjoying it. Or maybe it's in the bin and the reels have something decent on them... [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 07, 2009, 08:38 AM:

I've never knowingly bought a red feature. I couldn't stand it, (unless the movie was "Big Red" HAHA! ahem!).

I have bought features advertised as decent or good color, only to be beet red in reality. You just can't honestly move them on to another person if they're like that, unless the buyer knows for a fact what they are getting.

I agree with Micheal O Reagan on this, (or I think he may have said something along these lines), as, if I can't watch a good quality print with good color, why not just watch it on the video?

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on November 07, 2009, 09:18 AM:

I wouldn't keep even "The Wizard of Oz" or "Gone with the Wind" if they were given to me and they were red. To me there is such a thing as "worse than not having it."

With Blu-Rays available, the last thing I want is to be dissatisfied when I actually run a Super-8 or 16mm feature film. The point, at least to me, is to see something that is a viable alternative. I don't have a lot of money, so I buy very carefully.

I bought a 6000-ft reel for another film, and the seller had a print on it of a South African Western with Vincent Price in it, so a bit of a curio item; it was on the reel because he couldn't spool it off. Perfect print, no scratches, utterly red.
I watched the film, just to see it, and then into the garbage it went. No way I would offer it for sale, even for $10.

Claus.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on November 07, 2009, 09:37 AM:

Claus, you're funny. You have such a dry way about things. I love it.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on November 07, 2009, 04:21 PM:

Oh that's a shame, Claus. I would have like to have seen that one...

Posted by David Michael Leugers (Member # 166) on November 07, 2009, 06:15 PM:

I have a real hard time justifying purchasing a red print. It has to be a movie I really want to have and very, very cheap before I will spring for one. Because of the color fade problem (and the fact that I love B+W films) I concentrate on buying B+W films. For me, nothing is more impressive than a truly great B+W film up on the big screen...

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on November 08, 2009, 02:02 AM:

Yes, I should also say that most of what I collect is B&W so the red issue rarely even arises.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 08, 2009, 08:38 AM:

quote:
Who buys red prints and what is the reasoning behind it?

"Just if I can buy a digest of The Bridge on the River Kwai (or Guns for San Sebastian) in good colors" [Big Grin]

cheers,

Posted by Joe McAllister (Member # 825) on November 09, 2009, 03:01 PM:

I occasionally buy faded prints. My excuse is that my wife who is not a film nerd quite likes the autumnal look of films on the turn. Plus I have discovered that the deterioration of prints can be quite slow. An off colour print of "Wind across the Everglades" I bought over 20 years ago looks much the same as it did when I bought it. Not great colour but OK.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on November 09, 2009, 03:28 PM:

"I bought a 6000-ft reel for another film, and the seller had a print on it of a South African Western with Vincent Price in it, so a bit of a curio item; it was on the reel because he couldn't spool it off. Perfect print, no scratches, utterly red.
I watched the film, just to see it, and then into the garbage it went. No way I would offer it for sale, even for $10."

Why not offer it?? That's a bit sad - destroying a rarity that I'm sure several collectors - myself included - would have happily paid at least $30 to see and then maybe sell on.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 09, 2009, 04:21 PM:

Hey, I found a perfect use for dreaded Eastman film stock!

Use L.P.P. for the normal colored scenes in the B movie classic, "The Angry Red Planet", and then, for thye reel or two that take place on the planet surface, use that dreaded Eastman.

Even when it would fade, you'd still have GREAT color! HAH!

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on November 09, 2009, 04:27 PM:

All the prints I have of Saturday Night Fever are faded but that dosent bother me too much because the nightclub scenes (and there are many) still look great.

Graham S

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on November 10, 2009, 06:46 AM:

I don't particularly like red prints. However, there seem to be different degrees of red or fading. Some, to me, are tolerable.

I've actually only had to destroy about three super 8 prints for redness. They were Universal 8 digests, and it was such a harsh redness, it just looked too bad. On the other hand, I have a feature thats turned red (Lassie Come Home), thats still very easy to watch.

To me, its harder to watch a print thats too dark, or has very soft focus, than to have a red tint.

I do understand why Clause would destroy a bad print. To re-sell a bad print, even if advertised as such, can give people a bad taste for film. I agree, if its that bad, just take it out of circulation all together!

John- That blue filter sounds interesting. I'll have to try it.

James.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on November 10, 2009, 07:51 AM:

A few years ago, I tracked down a rare short I'd been looking for for 20 years. There are probably no low fade prints in existence and even if there were, I might never find one - so that was a situation in which I was quite happy to have an Eastman print.

A faded 16mm print of the original 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre', with a rare Bryanston caption at the start, recently went for nearly $750 on eBay, so there certainly are exceptions to the general rule that faded prints are relatively worthless.

Surely the key thing is how 'watchable' a print is. If a film has very little contrast and the dark scenes are very murky with no detail, it has little or no appeal to me, but the more brownish look, with pretty good contrast, that can characterise a faded SP print can be quite pleasant - and more pleasing to the eye than (e.g.) a typical b/w dupe. The purple look of older Fuji can be just as bad as Eastman, though, in my opinion.

Anyone that buys economy prints who would welcome a change from red, might be interested to know that I'm planning to sell a 16mm print of 'Tommy' that has apparently faded to green, and a 16mm print of 'Brides of Dracula' that is unique in my experience as it has become an attractive sepia colour!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 10, 2009, 09:30 AM:

Mmmm ... green Tommy.

(That sounds bizzarre!)

I take old red/blue 3D glasses lenses, and they work pretty darned well for restoring fairly decent watchable color. The lighter the light blue the better.

Mixing, for instance, a light blue lense with a light yellow/amber lense works even better. The only downside is that you get lense light on your screen, of course.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 10, 2009, 09:31 AM:

Mmmm ... green Tommy.

(That sounds bizzarre!)

I take old red/blue 3D glasses lenses, and they work pretty darned well for restoring fairly decent watchable color. The lighter the light blue the better.

Mixing, for instance, a light blue lense with a light yellow/amber lense works even better. The only downside is that you get lense light on your screen, of course.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on November 12, 2009, 03:03 PM:

I can't be certain if my greenish Tommy has faded or was a lab error, but I have heard it said that a certain type of Agfa prints are liable to fade to green - but if that's the case, it doesn't seem to happen very often.

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on November 12, 2009, 03:24 PM:

Adrian, not sure of the film stock but my Roger Moore trailers of MWTGG and Spy have both faded to green. These are full frame trailers and I dont think they are derann ones. I still love them though.

Graham S

Posted by Thomas Murin, Jr. (Member # 1745) on November 12, 2009, 04:37 PM:

My print of Scars Of Dracula is red. I knew that from the pictures on the ebay listing. I bought it for the following reasons:

1--It's my favorite of Christopher Lee's Dracula films.
2--It's rare and who knows when I'll see another one.
3--It was only $50 plus shipping.

It's not bad really. The main problem is the nighttime scenes are printed too dark so you can barely make out what is going on. Strangely, there is a fog filled scene that, due to the color of the fog, briefly restores the color balance!

I'll have to try the color filter approach the next time I screen it.

Tom

Posted by Oemer Yalinkilic (Member # 86) on November 12, 2009, 04:41 PM:

I hate red prints, but I´m a big Cyd Charisse Fan and I bought a red 35mm print of Silk stockings. There is only red, no other colors but I watched the full feature. I don´t think that I watch it again, it is much better to watch a B/W print of a color title. I hate only vinegar prints more than red prints.

Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on November 12, 2009, 04:50 PM:

About red prints... Disney's ROBIN HOOD I have in my collection unfortunately is. Kodak SP stock and color still holding up. But I have to say it is definitely on the red side [Frown]

. This is the only existing version of the movie on 8mm. So, even if it's sad to say that, better red than nothing.

Oh... I have an Alan Parker's MIDNIGHT EXPRESS (1979) full edition on 35mm. It's on EASTMAN and TOTALLY RED.

I'm thinking in giving it to someone who could be anyway interested (about shipping: consider it's VERY HEAVY). I don't know about rarity, condition or more. Never screened or checked (I don't have any 35mm facility).

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2