8mm Forum: Help!!!...Bulbs Keep Blowing Up

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Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on January 24, 2010, 12:18 AM:

I have a Canon S-400 projector that was working great until the bulb blew... Now, each time I put a new bulb I get light for a few seconds and PUFFF...it blows again. At $22.00 a pop it can get very expensive, very quickly.

I burnt three already, all brand new.

Any ideas where I may check for a solution?

Thank you,

Jon

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on January 24, 2010, 12:50 AM:

Sounds like they are getting the wrong voltage-best get an electrician to put his meter over the machine.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on January 24, 2010, 03:17 AM:

There could be a voltage selection on the projector I suppose. I had this problem with my Silma Blue Memory when I first purchased it. I suppose that was why the original owner got shot of it because lamps would blow almost immediately. Changed the dial round to the correct setting and haven't had a problem since.

Posted by Flavio Stabile (Member # 357) on January 24, 2010, 05:23 AM:

Jon,

if you liked it here it is another one

http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190367225457

for only 15 euro!

Flavio

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 24, 2010, 07:43 AM:

'Morning Jon,

To me it sounds more like you are trying to use the wrong lamp. Did the original lamp work for a while?

Do you still have the original lamp so you can check the code on it?

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on January 24, 2010, 11:01 AM:

Thank you everyone for your suggestions.

Steve, I don’t have the original lamp but this projector uses a CXR/CXL 8V 50W. Do CXR/CXL lamps have different codes?

Thanks again.

Jon

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 24, 2010, 11:33 AM:

So it looks like this one?:

http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b.pl/cxr%7ccxl.html

The thing about it is if the old bulb ran for a while and it blew, then the circuit that was powering it was OK at the time.

If you put in the same type bulb and they started blowing, something changed. The questions are what and how?

Trevor is right, we need that voltage measurement.

Here's a nice cheap little mutimeter at Radio Shack:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2999093

If you pick up one of these you can get that measurement. I can step you through it too.

PS: You can get really cheap ones for even less.

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on January 24, 2010, 09:12 PM:

Up to the Shack tomorrow Steve but I am going to buy a digital.

Thanks again

Jon

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 24, 2010, 09:20 PM:

Just as well: harder to blow up!

(-not that I haven't tried...)

Posted by frank arnstein (Member # 330) on January 25, 2010, 04:41 AM:

Hi Jon & others on this thread.

Its an expensive fault to try and fix, as you have pointed out.
Before trying a 3rd lamp, my suggestion would be to check the earth connections at the lamp socket. There is often a pigtail wire with slide on connectors that can get loose.
There is sometimes a high resistance that develops in the lamp socket contacts or even the earthing circuit to the chassis.
Rusty marks may indicate where it is. Sometimes the insides of the socket walls or the earthing pieces that are used to ground the lamp holder. There is a spring that preloads the lamp in the socket. Check that its all clean & tight when the lamp is in.
The socket contact points should be scraped till they shine brightly, especially the lower, main, centre spring loaded contact.
Wiggle the old lamp around in the socket to clean all the side contact points. Remove again & spray it all clean inside with an evaporative spray, electrical cleaner.

If you can get a voltmeter onto the socket contacts, check the voltage is 8 volt & steady while running.
If it all looks OK, then try another lamp & see what happens.
If it blows yet again, toss the whole projector off the nearest cliff & get another one.

Good Luck with it.
Tell us what happens.

Dogtor Frankarnstein.

[Razz]

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on February 27, 2010, 06:19 PM:

Thank you all for the great suggestions, I still have not tried any but I hope to do so this coming week. I have been out on medical leave since January 25 until a couple of days ago.

Can anyone recommend a decent multimeter in the US$50 to $100 range? A few dollars either way is fine.

Thanks again

Jon

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 27, 2010, 07:02 PM:

I started out with a Radio Shack multimeter in my teens: it was OK but eventually died. In order to get the quality of meter I was using at work would have cost several hundred, but I managed to get a nice Fluke 37 used on E-bay for about 35 bucks.

If you want to get away from the $14.99 cheapies and are willing to spend a little more, I'd go this way. One of these used is better than a cheap new one for the same money because they are built to withstand abuse and will last much longer. Besides, I've had one or two of these cheapies eat batteries as if they were free.

I like hand held, battery powered meters. Not having to plug them in makes them more versatile, especially if you use them to work on cars or in other cases where outlets are scarce. They aren't as accurate as the typical bench meter, but that extra digit or two of accuracy means nothing for hobby/home use.

Names I like are for these are Fluke and Keithley.

Just like buying a projector, "Sold as is" is probably your signal to turn and run! With something like this, if you buy it working it will probably work for years, but since there are tons of ways for them to die, you want that assurance it is working before you take delivery.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on February 27, 2010, 08:28 PM:

Jon, there are too much cost if you are trying to repair. Buying an expensive multimeter does not guarantee to fix your problem, beside the bulb is also expensive.

Unless you have a special memory with this projector, you can keep that. Otherwise, if I were you, I'll get a new projector Chinon 330 MV for a cost of $50 (that include shipping within the USA). There are plenty of them at Ebay and this projector uses 100w, 12v EFR bulb which is sold anywhere for around $6.

[Wink]

my 2 cents,

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 27, 2010, 08:51 PM:

-but Winbert, having and being able to use a meter is generally useful. I have my good one in the shop and cheap ones stashed all over the place...just in case!

I think more and more being able to manage in this hobby will require skills like this. I really encourage it.

I have a seven year old here. Gonna teach him how to shave, gonna teach him how to drive, gonna explain what little I understand about women (less and less every year...), but I'll be sure he knows enough basic electrical theory too.

(I taught him how to ride a bike: what a blast!)

(EFP is 12V, 100W. EFR is 15V, 150W)

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on February 28, 2010, 06:26 AM:

Your are right Steve regarding the important to have that skill. But I am much concerned on the price of this current bulb, $22 for a 50 watt brightness. I believe this is not worth for the price, it is more because of the rarity. While on the projecting issue, the most important side is the quality of brightness.

So what is the point to use this bulb when we can get (you are also right EFP) 12v 100w for much cheaper price.

If the reason you like the 50w brightness, even you can 12v 50w for $1 which has the same socket with EFP. It is sold in "Dollarama" store
[Wink]

I more encourage to spend more money for buying prints [Big Grin]

cheers,

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on February 28, 2010, 12:42 PM:

Thank you very much for the suggestions Steve. I will look in that direction.

Winbert, it’s not a matter of this projector being special, I own quite a few projectors (I do have 2 Chinon 330MV) and it’s not the price of the bulb. Right now I have a couple of dozen projectors in my junk pile with, what may be, minor problems, a little hum here, sound that you can hear with headphones but doesn’t reach the speaker, no sound, etc.

I have been reading some basic electronics books and I want to start tinkering with these things, after all the projectors in question are not currently usable.

I have sent a few units to Leon Norris (ST-1200s) but that too has become too expensive and they not always work when I’ve gotten them back. I have bought several repair manuals and I believe if I can track the problem I can fix it myself or at least try before tossing them away. It will be well worth it in knowledge and will make my involvement in this hobby a lot more enjoyable.

For my personal viewing, I have an Elmo ST-1200HD with a 1.0 lens and a Sankyo Stereo-800.

Jon

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 28, 2010, 01:38 PM:

Every so often I get this idea in my head that it would be neat to have an oscilloscope at the house...but let's not go there.

For what I'd spend for a decent one I'm better off just bringing my projects to work and messing around during lunch or after hours.

The thing about being equipped with something basic like a meter is it takes a lot of the guesswork out of fixing things. For example, you don't replace the switch because you think it may be bad and find out later it's the wiring connected to it. You find out that the wiring is bad in the first place and fix the wiring.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 01, 2010, 01:02 AM:

Back in the 70s I bought a small multi-meter "needle job" I would have to say it was the best thing I have ever bought. It takes a lot of the guess work out of things from a simple fuse to what wire does what. I remember just lately tracing a wire to a soldered joint only to find the problem was in the joint itself, a quick re-solder fixed that problem, without a meter I would not have picked it up, other things like checking your speaker resistance and wiring when connecting to an amp or projector, across the pins on a projector lamp if you are not sure its blown... you can use it for all kinds of things. I dont use it for the mains though [Eek!]

I leave that bit to the experts. [Smile]

Graham.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 01, 2010, 08:12 AM:

That's true: don't work on the mains unless you feel comfortable and if you are comfortable working on the mains make sure you should be comfortable working on the mains. I used to work with a guy who would work on anything. He wasn't competent, just foolish! (Yes, he's still alive...)

International safety agencies say that 60V and above is enough to hurt people. Mains voltages anywhere I've ever heard of are multiples higher!

If you can get away with figuring something out with the Ohms function on a multimeter, that's the way to go. You don't even need the circuit powered up.

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on March 01, 2010, 11:46 AM:

What are "the mains?" [Confused]

I am just trying to find out why lamps keep blowing on one machine and do some light tinkering on others, I have a great deal of respect for anything electrical as even experts get into trouble now and then.

Believe me, I will be absolutely, positively sure that I understand thoroughly the steps I must take each step of the way when trying something. But first, I must learn how to use the meter. [Big Grin]

I wish there were more projectors repair places around.

Thanks for the safety tips.

Jon

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 01, 2010, 12:03 PM:

The "mains" are the power which comes out of wall sockets, in our case 115V, 60Hz AC for small domestic appliances. I've gotten nipped by it a couple of times and at the least it can toss you across the room!

Fortunately, this is just raw power for stuff like heating elements, big(ish) motors and light bulbs. Most of the power (not ALL) you encounter inside a projector is stepped down to lower, safer voltages. This is most of the reason for the transformer inside there.

The voltage you are interested in should be 8 Volts: less than a transistor radio battery.

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on March 28, 2010, 07:45 PM:

Done!!

Fixed !!

I think [Wink]

I set out with my meter to troubleshoot the lamp burning issue with this projector by following the suggestions given here. After reading the first two answers (by Trevor and John Clancy) I looked at the voltage selector at the bottom of the unit and saw it was set at 100.

I have two other similar units in perfect working condition and when I checked those the voltage selector was set at 115.

I changed the selector from 100 to 115 on the defective unit and I proceeded to watched three 400’ reels one after the other without problems. Then I turned the projector on and off a dozen times and the lamp stayed on. no more blown lamps.

I am happy but I feel a bit foolish if the solution was as simple as checking the voltage selector switch. [Embarrassed]

I guess I must have moved the selector accidentally causing all those burned lamps within seconds of turning the machine on.

Thank you to all of you for your great help. [Smile]

Jon

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