8mm Forum: Bolex Sonorizer

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Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on September 15, 2010, 07:48 PM:

Someone has a Bolex Sonerizer for sale on Craigs List. It says it is for adding sound to 8mm film. If anyone here is familiar with this device I have a few questions. It sounds like you need to add a magnetic stripe to the film. Does this device do that? If not, how is that done? I assume that this sound would be recorded after shooting and processing the film, is that correct?

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on September 15, 2010, 08:39 PM:

Brian,

Yes as I understand the Sonorizer from the ad here, it is a recording device for laying sound onto post-striped film.

http://www.bolexcollector.com/accessories/misc60.html

Funky-looking to be sure, but, given Bolex' reputation for quality, maybe quite good?

Now as for compatibility of the final sound film with other projectors... well, the sound here would be ahead of the picture and that would lead to all manner of shift when played on a "normal" pic-before-sound projector.

Still, an interesting forgotten unit, and, most likely one that would still run if the amp is in good shape. Now try to get Reg-8 film sound-striped...

They also made a mechanical sync device called the Synchromat for the M8. This was a device that allowed a reel-to-reel machine to be locked with the M8 for playing back tapes to accompany the films.

They were never short on good ideas, or the mechanical solutions for them, in those days. Admirable.

Claus.

Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on September 15, 2010, 08:49 PM:

So they must have had a separate device to put the magnetic stripe on if this machine did not do that.

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on September 15, 2010, 09:01 PM:

I believe the idea was that you would have the film striped by the developer after they had processed the film, or possibly if you sent it in afterwards. Kodak offered the same with Super-8.

Claus.

Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on September 15, 2010, 09:55 PM:

So it's pretty useless now unless you have some old 8mm film that was striped for sound.

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on September 15, 2010, 10:24 PM:

Well....I'd hate to use that word about it, but then again I like old things for their own sake [Big Grin]

Just as I thought no one was left to do Standard-8 striping, these three show up on Brodsky and Treadway's website link:

(quote)
"SOUND STRIPING SERVICES

Cohen Phillips Regular 8mm & Super 8mm Sound Striping (main track only) 2923 North 7th Street St. Joseph, Missouri 64505

Paul Yost, 117 Ruby Ave. San Carlos CA 94070. T: 650-592-0112.

Camera Pro, Nevada 702.434.7051"
(end quote)

How current this is, I do not know.

Claus.

Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on September 15, 2010, 10:31 PM:

Thanks for your response Claus. I just contacted the person selling the Sonerizer and he said someone just purchased it. I have to wonder what they are going to do with it?

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on September 15, 2010, 11:17 PM:

Bryan,

Maybe just to have it on display. Such things can be fun to look at and fiddle with, even you can't use them as intended any more.

I apologize for mis-spellng your name in my first response.

Claus.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 16, 2010, 08:12 AM:

Film can still be striped. It may mean striping it yourself or sending it to the UK or Germany, but it can be done.

I did a couple of reels a few years back through EVT magnetics, and in the end it wasn't a big deal at all.

Paul Yost retired and sold his striping business. The fellow that bought it offered striping for a little while at a price roughly double what EVT charges, which more than absorbed the extra shipping cost to the UK. For me, the deciding factor was EVTs experience striping: it's as much an art as a science, and if it's done wrong there's no second chances.

The Yost striping gear was eventually sold to a museum of Motion Pictures and Television and now there is no commercial striping in North America.

The shame of it all is there was a time when Kodak debated striping all of it's camera stock, whether for sound or silent cartridges. It came pretty close to happening too. I see myself going into Super-8 Sound 20 years earlier had this happened. There's no way I would have let a couple of hundred feet of stripe stay empty.

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on September 16, 2010, 11:41 AM:

Steve,

Thanks for that; I didn't realize that they could also still stripe Standard-8. I'll keep EVT in mind for my Super-8 films if needed.

Claus.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 16, 2010, 12:06 PM:

It looks from this that the biggest obstacle to striping R8 vs S8 is the reversal of the balance and main stripes.

Stripes

I suppose the easiest way to compensate would be to wind the head of the film onto a reel, turn the reel over on the striper's supply spindle and then stripe it backwards.

Of course once the sprocket holes come into play this theory is pretty much shot.

Since EVT has been striping since the early days of Walton, I bet he knows how to do it!

Hmmmm...I wonder if that thing about stripes not sticking on 64T applies to 100D as well...

Posted by David James Christy (Member # 1953) on September 19, 2010, 03:49 PM:

I remember an outfit based in Chicago (in the 70s, out of business now) that used to sell film striping equipment. Wish I could remember there name. If I remember right, there's a 54 frame difference between sound and picture. Also, in Standard 8, there's only one stripe for audio. Due to the film being slit down the middle, there's no space for a balance stripe, causing the film to lean over as it piles on to the reel.

Still, due to my Bolex H8Rex, I would have loved to play with sound back then. Of course, finding a suitable projector would be necessary.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 19, 2010, 06:56 PM:

Hey David!,

A guy from one of my favorite places!

Do you know this film?

Sounds of Arizona

An old friend of mine was a wiz with the Bolex-Weberling striper. However, once I listened to him describe the process he went through to get it right on his films I decided to get mine striped by a pro instead of getting my own striper. He'd usually stripe at least 50 feet of scrap film before he was satisfied he'd get good results on the real thing.

-as a matter of fact the first time I went to get one of mine striped he told me out of respect for our friendship he'd feel more comfortable if I went to EVT Magnetics instead of him taking responsibility for the fate of one of my films!

Posted by David James Christy (Member # 1953) on September 19, 2010, 09:44 PM:

Hi Steve,

No, I hadn't heard of that film. Your description is very interesting, though. This is a standard 8mm print? What type of projector do you have that let's you hear the sync sound off the stripe?

I know it's kinda corny, but I have shot 100 feet of Kodachrome 25 while visiting my Dad in Flagstaff. I have the last 100 feet to shoot here in Tucson. Just silent. I have to get it to Dwayne's before December. Once he stops Kodachrome processing in December, that's it for that emulsion.

I'm finding myself enjoying the limitation and challenge of the format, the handling of the camera, reading the light meter and setting focus. I have to think about what I want in that footage, because it's truly a one-shot deal.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 19, 2010, 10:00 PM:

Hey David,

Sounds of Arizona is a Super-8 Cinemascope print. It was the first print I ever bought from Derann Film Services back in 2002. The funny part is I had no idea it was an anamorphic print until it arrived, so I had to watch it squished for about two years. -Not only tall in the saddle...but really thin too!

Reminds me a lot of my days out in Tucson. Up until then I'd never been west of Texas and the first chance I got to go to Tucson I intentionally flew out a day early so I could go hiking in Saguaro National Monument and see some of the sights.

I was there for three weeks one winter. I was glad to get back home at the end, but it was a great chance to experience the place.

I have three Kodachromes left...gotta get on with it!

Posted by David James Christy (Member # 1953) on September 20, 2010, 06:21 PM:

Hi Steve,

Just saw your Stripes referent. Technology must have improved over the past 30 years to add a balance stripe to R8! I wonder though, if the main track for R8 is on the thicker stripe, as opposed to the placement on S8? In which case the mag head would be positioned differently. Hmmm.

This is fun to talk about, isn't it?

BTW, 105 and dry here in Tucson. Sitting in trailer AC 75F. Used to lived in Maryland a few years. Is your area similar?

Posted by Thomas Dafnides (Member # 1851) on September 20, 2010, 10:14 PM:

David,
The place in Chicago you are referring to I believe is Superior Bulk Film Company. They specialized in 8mm.

Posted by Glenn Brady (Member # 715) on September 21, 2010, 07:04 AM:

Bolex offered a film striping machine in collaboration with Kurt Weberling that applied a main stripe only (Weberling offered larger machines to apply both a main and balance stripe). The Bolex-Weberling machines appear from time-to-time at eBay and aren't expensive, so it's still possible to do film striping oneself. Stripe and adhesive have been available from Wittner Cinetec, but I'm not sure that's still the case. Fitted with interchangeable sprockets to accommodate regular 8mm and Super 8 films, the Weberling machine is versatile and not difficult to use. I've striped films up to about 800 feet in length without applying a balance stripe and found no difficulty with projecting or storing those films.

[ September 21, 2010, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Brady ]

Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on September 21, 2010, 11:22 AM:

What is the material that is actually placed onto the film? Does it glue a magnetic tape to the film? Can you still get this material? [Confused]

Posted by Thomas Dafnides (Member # 1851) on September 21, 2010, 10:18 PM:

My understanding is that it is a glue that adheres the tape stripe to the film. More professional sophisticated systems used a liquid dispersion magnetic material that dried on the film.
Bolex Sonorizer is interesting because it records on the film before it is subjected to the intermittent movement of the projector claw.

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on September 21, 2010, 11:16 PM:

Thomas,

A very good point. Greater speed stability and better sound (potentially) as it is running "at regular speed" before hitting the intermittent.
Only machine you can play it on, but hey...
I am only partially kidding, as this may have been a very good system indeed.

Claus.

Posted by David James Christy (Member # 1953) on September 22, 2010, 08:10 PM:

Thanks, Thomas, Yes that's it: Superior Bulk Film. Wish they were still there, they had a great catalog. When I get some money saved, perhaps it would be fun to indulge the fantasy of sound R8mm film. Anyone know what projector was made to record onto and utilize such a sound track?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 22, 2010, 09:57 PM:

Shouldn't the Dual-8 models in the Eumig 800 series be able to do that?

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