8mm Forum: Ken Films & Columbia Digest Narration

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Posted by Douglas W. Warren (Member # 2159) on September 16, 2010, 01:10 PM:

Many years ago I was chatting with Steve Osborne about Super-8 digests and the discussion came around to the narration on Ken Films & Columbia films. The one I remember best (and found the most amusing and annoying at the same time) was "The Poseidon Adventure." Not sure why they felt it was needed to state the obvious ("The great ship has capsized.") but there it was.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on why both companies felt it was necessary to add the narration?

Cheers all,
Douglas

[Smile]

Posted by John Skujins (Member # 1515) on September 16, 2010, 05:53 PM:

I assumed it was to help you follow the plot since so much is missing in a digest. "The great ship has capsized" is just pure silliness though.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on September 16, 2010, 06:19 PM:

Columbia releases were especially brilliant at this sort of nonsense.

Lots of examples, but one that springs to mind is the 400ft extract of "Son of Dr. Jekyll"...

A sinister scene in an otherwise nicely atmospheric super 8 movie; one of the characters announces, "I'll see you later at (so-and-so's) flat..."

Cut to "so-and-so's" flat...all very spooky...until a big booming voice over announces, "LATER...AT (SO AND SO'S FLAT!)"

...ensuing laughter from the audience everytime I screen it! [Frown]

...

Posted by Douglas W. Warren (Member # 2159) on September 16, 2010, 06:35 PM:

It would be interesting to know what other gems of narration the Columbia & Ken Films contained. Maybe a list is in order!

Cheers,
Douglas [Smile]

Posted by Kurt Gardner (Member # 440) on September 16, 2010, 09:24 PM:

"Strait-Jacket" is hilarious. It's so pedantic, and the narrator reminds us that the groundskeeper is "played by George Kennedy" although he doesn't introduce any of the other characters.

The 400' "Taxi Driver" consists of all of the film's most extremely violent scenes, yet the narrator drones on, reminding us why Travis Bickle is so screwed up and why he has to save Iris. That actually makes it more fun to watch.

And speaking of Ken Films, the 200' "The Day the Earth Stood Still" has a whole lot of yacking to piece together what we already know. He's still blathering right until the end, when Michael Rennie's spaceship flies away. "St. Valentine's Day Massacre" at least has the original voiceover so it's not so ridiculous. But the print is so pink!

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on September 19, 2010, 12:21 AM:

How about the Boston Strangler? The narrator is almost a part of the film he talks so much!

A powerful performance by Tony Curtis is talked over the top of. If I was one of these actors I would have had something to say about it........but the contracts probably had no chance for the actor to do so.

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on September 20, 2010, 01:37 PM:

On the other hand....Columbia's The Devil Commands...sports beautifully done narration...a clever and almost seamless mix of the original narration by Karloff's daughter in the film..and some new sound alike narration needed to tie the sequences together...otherwise, you'd have real trouble following things. Just a very nice job. ONE OF THE FEW, I might add.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on September 22, 2010, 06:10 PM:

As Gary mentions, sometimes the narration works, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes comes off with hilarious results.

One digest where I thought that the Columbia narration worked well was "Requelm for a Heavyweight". It wasn't overdone or campy, so the mood of the film wasn't lost.

Then, on the other side......

A FUNNY example of narration is the 200 foot digest of "Coffy" (the narration is not in the 400 foot digest).

For those familiar with the blaxploitation flick, its the scene near the end of the movie where the thugs drug Coffy (Pam Grier), and drive under a bridge to kill her. As the lead thug Omar (Sid Haig) carries her out of the back seat, the Ken Films narrator voices "Omar's orders are to kill Coffy......But he wants his T-H-R-I-L-L-S first", putting a strong emphesis on "thrills", knowing what being implied.

I don't know, its sick, funny, and campy at the same time. My teenage friends just couldn't stop laghing after that.

James.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on April 18, 2011, 03:56 PM:

I just received a beautiful digest of TAXI DRIVER (400' Columbia) and when it started I wondered if there would be any of that silly narration and of course there was. Totally pointless too. I mean the scene where Travis goes up to meet with the girl pretty much explains itself as the scene plays out...but no, the stupid narrator tells us whats going to happen as there walking up the stairs into the room! Drained the tension right out of it. I'm still happy with the print and the color is still great. Nice clamshell box too!

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on April 18, 2011, 04:14 PM:

Don't get me started. I've written a manifesto's worth of posts on this topic. Thankfully, Universal and Niles didn't insult anyone's intelligence by targeting their products to the grammar school set by inserting mundane, unimaginative, poorly written and intrusive narration to accompany the action. This is why I only buy the digests from Ken and Columbia that are absolute must haves and not just nice-to-haves. I wonder if it was part of a copyright clause with the studios that predicated the narrations. This way Columbia and Fox could rest assured that the digests would be instantly identifiable should someone attempt to violate the exhibition restrictions. Remember Ken and Columbia's 8mm division were still outside enterprises merely contracting certain studios' titles to market in the home movie guages. A huge percentage of the Ken and Columbia digest catalogs consisted of more contemporary titles as opposed to Universal's (which had already been in the market for many years prior) so perhaps it was felt more safeguards, like narration, were necessary.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on April 18, 2011, 04:21 PM:

Right after screening it I thought...'I wonder if I could re-record this...?'

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Colin Robert Hunt (Member # 433) on April 19, 2011, 01:54 PM:

On the Waterfront is a excellent cutdown with just the right ammount of narration. Had this print from it's release in the seventies. Won award for the best cutdown of 74. Excelent B&W print and soundtrack. The Boston Strangler apart from the narrator, also suffered from being not in Panavision. Those multiscene shots so used at the time did not look good in that 4X3 format.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on April 19, 2011, 07:31 PM:

I have THE BOSTON STRANGLER (400 ft) and there is no narration.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on April 19, 2011, 07:44 PM:

That's great, Tony! Nice to hear you lucked out on getting a title that during it's sound mastering someone fell asleep at the wheel. Now imagine it with "....Albert DeSalvo, the strangler, played by Tony Curtis, approaches his victim. The girl expires during their struggle."

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on April 19, 2011, 08:19 PM:

I don't have bad narration on mine neither [Big Grin]

. Maybe because it's the 200' S8 silent version [Eek!]

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on April 19, 2011, 09:09 PM:

O'h, now that's funny!

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on April 22, 2011, 05:00 AM:

Tony, it is the Boston Strangler 200ft I was referring to, sorry. Often only the 200ft version had the narration. This one almost sounds like it is an audio book; no pictures required!

I did watch The Deep Six 400ft the other night for the first time and found the narration a good thing, I had never seen the film before and it actually helped without being over the top.

David

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on April 22, 2011, 07:07 PM:

Trying to be open minded, here. Perhaps the narration would help (back before video) for those who had never seen the entire film. However, why would anyone buy a digest of a movie they were completely unfamiliar with? Furthermore, who doesn't know the story of "A Christmas Carol"? I can't tell you how upset I was when I was 17 and finally saved up enough to send away for it. I got home from school - immediately ripped open the package - threaded it on the projector - doused the lights - and not 20 seconds into the thing I get..."Ebenezer Scrooge blah, blah, blah, blah, blah". I was absolutely outraged. I still have it. It's in pristine condition (including the box). I keep it for sentimental reasons because it has always been my favorite story and I was once on a quest to own a print of all the versions ever made so I could rotate them year after year.

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on April 23, 2011, 11:52 AM:

I think we have to remember the time frame during which these digests were released -- "sound" digests were a new concept in the early to mid-1970s, hence the companies probably thought that audiences/customers needed a "bridging" component for what were essentially "souvenirs" of a feature film (of course, this being before the advent of home video in which feature films were abundantly available). True, Castle Films never used a narrator during this time, but as the 1970s wore on, the narrator began to fade away with newer releases as the companies realized that creative editing eliminated the need for narrators infected with "diarrhea of the mouth." Just my two cents.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on April 23, 2011, 04:24 PM:

Yeah...I can understand the narration filling in story gaps but descibing a scene right before you see it?

C'mon! Columbia must have thought people were dumb!

I suppose you do have to put things in their proper context.

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on April 23, 2011, 06:12 PM:

You have a valid point, John. I do agree with your "bridging" point. I would have preferred that Columbia and Ken went the direction Blackhawk did with having title cards with all the info on them prefacing the subject you were about to see. If they felt narration was still absolutely necessary then have it go over extended fades in and out between scenes when the screen would be dark and it wouldn't intrude on the action and dialogue in each scene. Then, perhaps, I could have simply 'wiped' it from the audio track altogether with the help of the RECORD button on the projector and some lessons in film editing.

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on April 23, 2011, 06:42 PM:

Agree with you, Brad. Makes sense. But I do steer clear of Columbia digests as a result of the narrator. I do have 20 MILLION MILES TO EARTH which isn't too bad on the narrator front, but the narrator on SON OF JEKYLL sets up entirely too much story exposition for a digest that only runs 18 minutes!

At least the Ken Films narrator kept his yapper shut until the closing seconds of the digest (or at least the ones that I have).

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on April 24, 2011, 07:43 PM:

I have THE PROFESSIONALS -- no narrator. 200 foot THE SILENCERS -- no narrator. 400 foot THE SILENCERS -- I need to check that one again -- I got it years ago in a package of films, watched it about once, then put it away since I enjoyed the 200 footer much more. THE DEEP -- no narrator. Most of my digests are from U8 or Castle and of course there is no narrator.
CHRISTMAS CAROL has a narrator -- but it doesn't bother me. Same with THE AWFUL TRUTH.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on April 25, 2011, 10:35 PM:

I've always thought Columbia and Ken digests had the same narrator. Does anyone know for certain? I've also wondered who actually wrote the narration.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on April 26, 2011, 05:10 AM:

The question Brad asks proves how much of an untold story there is regarding the history of Ken, Columbia, Fox etc digests. I'd love an in-depth history of these companies. The Castle one is good but there is so much more to tell.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 26, 2011, 10:41 AM:

Despite all the annoying continuity problems that digests inherently had, I remember them as having enormous impact back then in the 1970's. You have to remember that there was no vdeo back then, so super 8mm film was really the only way for people to be able to own a piece of a favourite Hollywood movie. Those digests requiring narration in an attempt to explain a complex story line, were obviously the least successful. But there were many movies that reduced very well to digest form. This was particularly true of musical pictures, where people wanted the great songs and dance routines, and could easily dispense with the(usually flimsy) story. The best digests in that respect were all the MGM classic musicals, which are all great to watch. The worst digest IMO was the 400ft version of Dr. Zhivago - a total disaster!

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on April 26, 2011, 11:13 PM:

I've been disappointed overall with what I've seen of musical digests. Songs abbreviated or simply used over an entirely different scene from which the original audio is muted. I'd rather have one or two songs intact than have 4 songs that are truncated. In "Wizard Of Oz" Garland's "Over The Rainbow" is heard over the titles and then we catch up with Dorothy in front of the barn. I didn't like it. I'm sure whittling a 90 minute musical down to 18 minutes was a tough chore, but I just haven't liked anything I've seen so far.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 26, 2011, 11:22 PM:

Brad,

U-8's Flower Drum Song digest takes 3 songs in their entirety. No narration, no plot, it's great! What's also nice is that my print has very good color.

Doug

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on April 27, 2011, 12:06 AM:

Nice to know. Thanks, Doug. Have you by chance seen the "Jesus Christ Superstar" digest? I can't imagine seeing it cut to less than 10% of its overall running time. One of my favorite shows. I've seen it on Ebay now and then, but dared not bid until I knew more about it.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on April 27, 2011, 05:37 PM:

If I remember correctly, the box for OZ mis-identified one of the songs included in the digest. I had this about 20 years ago and then sold it.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on April 30, 2011, 07:49 PM:

Which song?

Posted by Carter Bradley (Member # 984) on May 02, 2011, 03:33 PM:

The box for "The Wizard of Oz" incorectly lists Jack Haley's "Tin Man's song," which is not included in the digest.

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on August 30, 2011, 02:31 PM:

My first copy of "The Poseidon Adventure" 1x400 has no narration. It is a library copy I purchased 20 years ago. Yes, it's somewhat beat (lines & a few splices) but still has some color. I've picked up two since then. Both are red. In fact, the last one I got is ORANGE! They both have the narration. Totally unnecessary. I'm hoping to find a non-faded/no narration copy someday. All I can say I'm grateful the "Towering Inferno" is not. Can you imagine? "Security chief Jernigan, played by O.J. Simpson, is worried about the safety of the gala guests."

Posted by Keith Ashfield (Member # 741) on August 30, 2011, 05:08 PM:

Welcome to the forum, Chris.

I hope your latest aquisition of "The Towering Inferno" and "The Making of a Blockbuster" is satisfactory?

Best regards,

Keith

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on August 31, 2011, 03:41 AM:

Hi, Keith. I was actually talking about the 1x400 of "Towering Inferno". I have not yet received the 3x400 (or 2x600) & "Making of" I bought from you. Could be they've been delayed because of Hurricane Irene. I am, however, really looking forward to watching them. I will let you know as soon as they get here. Thank you again!

Posted by Keith Ashfield (Member # 741) on August 31, 2011, 06:27 AM:

No problem Chris. The parcel was last tracked at Springfield MA 01152, at 21.14 on 29th August, so should not be far away now I hope.

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