8mm Forum: Optical Sound

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Posted by Kyle Pittman (Member # 3416) on December 14, 2012, 07:32 AM:

Hi,
This is part introduction, part advice seeking. My name is Kyle, I'm 28 years old and from Ohio but I live and work in London as a freelance video editor. I used to be really into super 8 stuff when I was a kid after being given a projector and camera as a gift, and so I purchased my first abridged short, The Return of Dracula (or Curse of Dracula as it says on the box) and I used to watch it all the time. It was a lot of fun and now that I'm older I've been looking to get into collecting even more.

I had to abandon my projector since moving to the UK, but I'm using that as an opportunity to upgrade a bit. I'm on a low budget but I love film and want to get what I can. So this is where the advice comes in...

I just recently purchased Superman III with optical sound, I'm really excited about it, it's the first feature I've ever owned on film. However, now down the road I need to get an optical sound projector. Not looking to get one immediately because it's just not in the cards, but I just wanted to know what to look for and any advice on getting one at a decent price. I've done a little reading through here to see what I could find but I really wanted to discuss it first hand and see what my options could be.
Thanks!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on December 14, 2012, 07:41 AM:

Hi Kyle, welcome to the forum.

Super 8mm Projector with optical reader is not many so you have very limited choices.

They are:

- Elmo ST-1200 or GS-1200 or the small brother ST-800 or GS-800
- Chinon 1200
- Fujinon SH38
- Yashica
- Sankyo M/O series (very rare, only sold in Japan)

and some others.

But all super 8mm optical projectors are on high-end level, so for example, Elmos are most likely sold at $175 above for 800 series or $300 above for ST1200 series or even $600 above for GS1200.

For Chinon can be cheaper but non of optical projectors are sold below $120 unless you are lucky.

Good luck

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on December 14, 2012, 08:23 AM:

Hi Kyle and welcome to the forum,as you reside in the UK, Why
not drop a line to Buckingham films, Perry's Movies,Classic Home
Cinema or Independent 8, their addresses and other contacts can be found under "dealers" in the "films for sale", they can help no end.

Posted by Kyle Pittman (Member # 3416) on December 14, 2012, 10:16 AM:

Thanks for the tips guys! This will all help tremendously. I'm really excited about getting into this stuff, especially since I discovered all of these great features. 16mm or higher just isn't realistic for me at this point but I can see having a lot of fun with these 8mm features.

Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on December 14, 2012, 12:27 PM:

The Elmo ST 180 MO has optical sound. You may be able to get one for a lot cheaper than the higher end Elmo's. I got mine for $15. It can handle up to 600 foot reels. Just make sure it's an MO, the M version is magnetic only.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on December 14, 2012, 01:40 PM:

$15 for a projector is exceptional no matter it is magnetic or optical projector. Even a cheapest plastic creepy magnetic projector will not be that low. So Kyle, Bryan's luck does not come very often [Wink]

ST-180 (or aka ST-600) with optical reader is very rare. I am afraid that was initially sold for Japanese market as they had home package movies in optical sound. Same like Sankyo OMS series that are not known outside Japan (e.g. Sankyo Sound OMS-880ST)

As a result, if someone is selling ST600 M/O (ST-180) at EBay, it may end at even higher price than ST-800 M/O.

Just a side note, optical film was primary meant for industrial (i.e Airline companies, oil Rigs, movie clubs) that is why the projectors who can handle it are also at high end level. Only in Japan (and few in France) that optical films were also used as home movies.

Posted by Kyle Pittman (Member # 3416) on December 14, 2012, 03:50 PM:

Yeah, I have yet to find any projectors at all for anywhere near 15 here in the UK thus far, with or without sound, though I remember them (not necessarily high end ones) going for practically nothing around where I lived in the U.S. I believe the one I used to use was only around $10 with a camera, screen and editing bay.
I'd be willing to pay, hopefully around the 150-80 range for one with optical sound if I can possibly find one for that much (and when I have the spare cash haha).

Edit:
Also, just curious and excuse me if this is ridiculous-- but would it be impossible to project a print with optical sound and synch to a separate soundtrack, taken from a dvd or something? Given if the editing was identical?

[ December 14, 2012, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Kyle Pittman ]

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on December 14, 2012, 05:50 PM:

It was possible back in the dawn of time,around the '60s & '70s
to get hold of gadgets that would sync tape with film,like the
Pikasync, Cirse cinesound,Rivendell,all made them,some used
a pulse on tape while others used sprocketed tape.Folks often
do it with the GS1200.Drop a line to John Clancy who might be able to give some guidance on this subject, as he does sync up to DVD a lot.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 16, 2012, 07:19 PM:

You forgot a few Winbert

The CHINON 9500 is a top notch candidate for best optical sound reproduction, but I hands on favorite, (and I wish I still had this one!) is the EUMIG M & O model, for the life of me, I can't remember the model number, but this projector had an unbelievably wonderful low end sound reproduction as, one of the true complaints of optical super 8mm is that is tends to have high end levels, but low end reproduction is marginal at best.

Superman 3! I have that one as well and it hasn't faded a bit over all this time!

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on December 17, 2012, 05:25 PM:

Mention should also be made of Fumeo that has great opt snd,
but is expensive.

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on December 18, 2012, 11:50 AM:

IMHO it would not be wise to get an optical projector simply because you have one film with optical sound. If you plan on collecting, go magnetic sound. Sell your optical print and use the money to further your hobby.

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on December 18, 2012, 02:00 PM:

I think you have a good point there Barry. I myself dont have many optical films and rarely use the function on my GS1200 and ST1200, but its still nice knowing I have this feature if a certain title comes along.

Graham S

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 18, 2012, 03:06 PM:

It's too bad that optical sound prints did not become more prolific, then we would not have to worry about the lifetime of mag sound heads, which is probably the limiting factor on the lifespan of super 8 sound projectors.

Posted by Kyle Pittman (Member # 3416) on December 18, 2012, 07:12 PM:

Sell Superman III??? [Eek!]

That film alone is worth going optical haha
I've been weighing a few decisions though and I think I probably will end up going with a mag sound projector and then re-edit a rip of the dvd audio to sync up. It'll probably be a massive pain, but I love Superman III.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 18, 2012, 07:26 PM:

No you have to keep the optical! You can get a bunch of cool films that never made it to Magnetic like: Superman, Pale Rider, Rocky III, Splash, etc.
And the prints are usually pin sharp.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 04, 2016, 01:29 PM:

Ah..drawback. just read from this old thread the Sankyo Mag/ opt models were only available in Japan.

Oh well, there's always Fumeo I suppose.

Posted by Evan Samaras (Member # 5070) on January 04, 2016, 02:07 PM:

I don't think it was mentioned, but someone on the forum is selling an Elmo ST1200 magnetic + optical projector. Do you have a budget in mind?

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002777

Edit* Sorry I believe I misread, I thought you were now in Ohio. Will still leave the link in case in interests you.

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