8mm Forum: where are the 8mm experts??????

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Posted by Leo Rizzo (Member # 3569) on February 26, 2013, 07:29 AM:

I posted 1 question and was expecting a flood of replies, but so far not a single one, so let me try by asking again, since I know there are certainly people here discussing other topics. I just purchased a Bell & Howell 466ZB projector. I'm finding that it doesn't project a bright image even though the bulb is the correct one. I'm trying to project the image onto a screen that's about 10feet away. Am I expecting too much from this machine? I've got another cheaper little projector which is very very bright, but it has other issues such as very bouncy/jumpy video. I just find it hard to believe that this B & H is intended to be projected a very short distance. ANYBODY HAVE ANY THOUGHTS??
[Confused]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 26, 2013, 07:59 AM:

I probably didn't answer here because I don't know this machine and thought I'd let somebody who does give a better answer than I can, but generally:

1) You need to measure the voltage of the bulb as close as possible to the bulb to see if it's high as it's supposed to be. A little bit low can make a whole lotta dim!

2) You need to check that the bulb is sitting properly aligned to the gate. A little tilt off axis really can dim the picture.

3) Look at the contacts where power interfaces with the bulb. Are they burned and pitted? Maybe you can polish them up. Do they grab the pins firmly? You may need a new socket.

4) Some projectors have a glass shield that swings into the gate to keep the film cool during single frame projection. Does your machine have this, and if so is it stuck in "still" mode?

PS: Movie projectors don't do "video". [Wink]

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on February 26, 2013, 08:37 AM:

Is the mains voltage set correctly on this projector?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 26, 2013, 08:50 AM:

That's a good one!

If it's set up for European house current the voltage on the machine's side of the transformer will be one half(ish) what it needs to be when you plug it into a North American socket.

I would think the motor would act kind of funny also, but I'd check it out.

This machine has a switch to control the lamp: there could be trouble there also.

Posted by Leo Rizzo (Member # 3569) on February 26, 2013, 08:50 AM:

all contacts seem clean and the bulb is sitting properly. there is a dotted shield that comes in front of lamp, but it's out of the way when it's running.
I want to remove the rear cover to inspect all the moving parts as well, other than removing the small screws in the front, is there some other trick for tipping the pannel up and out?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 26, 2013, 08:55 AM:

There you have me!

(Other than the picture in Super-8 database I haven't ever seen one of these.)

General rule in life is take out the screws you can see and try to remove the part. If it doesn't want to came out then take out the screws you can't!

Posted by Leo Rizzo (Member # 3569) on February 26, 2013, 09:03 AM:

it's voltage is 120 and cannot be changed. Bulb seems to be working fine, it's extremely bright , I'll try different films to make sure it's not just a dark movie, but I can tell even with no film in, once I put it in fwd motion the amount of light reflected on the wall isn't as bright as that beaming out of the grill of the lamp cover. And yes the lamp is pointing forward lol

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 26, 2013, 10:07 AM:

Hmmmmm...

Can you take your lens out and see if it's cloudy inside?

Posted by Leo Rizzo (Member # 3569) on February 26, 2013, 10:20 AM:

should it be crystal clear? cause when I look through the small end of the lens I can see a faint milky film with texture

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on February 26, 2013, 10:31 AM:

When I got a projector they had an opal glass in front of the lamp which cut down the light a lot. I just removed it and it much better.

Posted by Leo Rizzo (Member # 3569) on February 26, 2013, 10:38 AM:

yeah, this looks like oxidation, and the more I play with this thing the more other issues I'm finding, so I think I'm just going to return it

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on February 26, 2013, 10:47 AM:

Leo

Or you could sell it to me! I love challenges [Eek!]

PatD

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on February 26, 2013, 10:54 AM:

We are all oxidizing a bit on here. Its an age thing!

Posted by Leo Rizzo (Member # 3569) on February 26, 2013, 10:57 AM:

It wouldn't be worth it Pasquale, I paid 60 for it, just to break even I would have to sell it to you for 90.00 including shipping

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 26, 2013, 11:13 AM:

Sounds like the dreaded lens fungus!

What you usually run into here is the fungus is very fond of the coatings on the lens elements. Even if you can get the lens apart to clean it out (harder than it sounds), the glass surfaces left behind are scored and pitted and no longer optically usable.

If you catch it early enough, something as easy as pointing the lens out a sunny window a few days can kill it, but yours sounds a lot further along than that.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on February 27, 2013, 07:00 AM:

Thats interesting. I've never experienced this, but is there a way to help avoid this? I like the idea of giving the lens some sun.

James.

Posted by Jake Mayes (Member # 3292) on February 27, 2013, 07:18 AM:

Sounds like lens fungus to me as well. I am not very experienced with cleaning lenses, i am more into the chemical processes of said films and that sort of stuff, electronics, shooting and darkroom work, but if the lens can be disassembled easily (provided you have no way of returning the projector, or i would just return it without fiddling with it),
you could attempt to clean the inside and outside elements with a weak solvent and lens cleaning cloth, pure iso alcohol might be an idea, or i have had good results with surgical spirit (90% ethanol, 10% methanol or similar but you might remove special coatings that are present on many lenses if used neat, but if there is fungus you need to A. remove the fungus and B. Kill all spores that may be present, that a simple wipe will not do, so it has a chance of at least making the lens usable. I would dilute the surgical spirit with distilled water 50/50 if you are worried about coatings, that is a method i have found works very well, vodka would also work I am sure... I have never hurt a lens in this way. do not use acetone, that will cause damage to many plastics and coatings, i have tested acetone on junker lenses, unless it was just the way I applied it!

If a lens gets wet or damp, dry heat is a good way of drying (at least in my experience, my 35mm SLR lenses all get subjected to moisture extremes because of what I like to shoot sometimes. Do not leave them in a warm humid environment when wet, that is heaven to fungus. Leaving it in the sun can be a good idea if you catch it early as stated above, but that sounds too far gone! Or if you can get a replacement lens on the cheap, you could try that option as well.

'Lens cleaning fluid' from london camera exchange left horrible blotches on one of my 35mm prime lenses once!

I would personally return the projector though, lets hope it was not 'sold as seen' if it was stated as fully tested/inspected and working, you have grounds to return it due to lens fungus, sold as seen you wouldn't have much legs to stand on...

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 27, 2013, 11:41 AM:

I have tried vodka and found it to be very effective.

Wait a minute! I didn't realize you were talking about lens fungus! [Wink]

Leo, very commonly when you are talking about a machine this old, if you need it on a long term basis you need to have a second or a third machine to have spare parts. If you want this machine enough the thing to do would be find another one with a good lens. The best machine of the pair gets to be the runner, the other one becomes the transplant donor.

Very commonly when you see someone restoring an old car they will have at least one more somewhere in their back yard: same thing!

Posted by Leo Rizzo (Member # 3569) on March 01, 2013, 08:54 AM:

Thank you all for your input, but I have decided to return the unit for a refund.

Thank you all again.

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