8mm Forum: Chinon projectors opinion.

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Posted by Elyas Tesfaye (Member # 3356) on March 07, 2013, 09:30 PM:

Dear all,
I was real down to find out from a great projector expert, Mr. Osborne himself from the reel image, that he doesn't recommend Chinons [Frown]

... I wanted to see if anybody else doesn't think they are good machines either. I was happy with mine but being a newb, I bet I might just be misinformed. Please comment and thanks again [Smile]

!!!

Posted by Joe Balitzki (Member # 438) on March 07, 2013, 10:56 PM:

Did he say why he didn't think favorably of Chinon projectors?
[Confused]

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on March 07, 2013, 11:18 PM:

I hate to say it but I hate Chinon projectors. My first one was a 4100.
It ate my print of:
Phantasm
Enter the Dragon
And numerous home films. And I bought mine brand new from Sears in the mid 80's.
Since then I have owned the 9500 and I used the SS1200 once. I just feel they do not treat film very well. The 9500 was great going forward but in reverse..thats when it chewed up a few films. And I had 3 of them in the past.
The SS1200 was decent but compared to the Eumig, Sankyo, Bauer, or the Elmo it was definitely of a lower caliber machine.

Posted by Elyas Tesfaye (Member # 3356) on March 07, 2013, 11:48 PM:

Thx Joe n Alan,
Joe, I think he said that the gates are plastic and that makes them notorious for scratching film. I have a SP 330 MV and haven't had any problem with it thus far, thank God. But I'm seriously thinking about getting an Elmo he highly recommended.

Alan, thank you for your very detailed and quite helpful tips. I'll keep an eye out and keep notes next time I screen my only remaining super 8 print (Dino De Laurentis' "The bible, in the begining" 440 footer B&W digest).

Thank you both once more and hope y'all are havin an awesome start to the weekend [Smile]

!!!

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on March 08, 2013, 02:41 AM:

The biggest selling Chinon sound projector in the UK was the 8000 and it sold in huge quantaties. As a basic introduction to super 8 sound they were ideal but most users I knew quickly moved on, basically as the are quite brutal in the wrong hands to film. Its was very much a case that Dixons was a large high street photo outlet and you found these machines in prime position within the shop windows. In later years the choice of sound projection equipment was growing and these sorts of Chinon machines lost pace in sales. Dixons also sold Eumig disguised machines side by side with the Chinon variables which were a better option in the long run and much kinder to film.
That’s my take on the Chinon, a good intro at the time (1970’s) but worth looking for a kinder to film option certainly today.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on March 08, 2013, 03:24 AM:

When Derann ran a film library, they stopped renting films to owners of the Chinnon 330 as films were being returned badly scratched. Chinnon commented on this in Movie Maker magazine at the time, stating that the problem was not with their projectors, but with the films being run through them!

They explained that the gate in the 330 was made to very high tolerances but was not side sprung, so provided the film run through it was split to equally high tolerances there shouldn't be a problem. The problem with commercially produced package movies was that their width varied, albeit by a fraction of a milimeter, but when the film was wider than the gate it would bow and then become scratched.

Camera Film was split to much higher tolerances and didn't become scratched, just package movies...

I had a 330 once, I certainly wouldn't want to run any package movies through another one.

Mike [Cool]

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on March 08, 2013, 05:04 AM:

I have 3 chinon super8 projectors, a 7000 and a 7500MV and a tv-type one aswell and i have had no problems with them.They play all of my films even the ones with some creases.
Personally i find the eumigs i've owned too fussy!

It's obviously a personal preference..

Posted by Adam McCreath (Member # 3500) on March 08, 2013, 06:33 AM:

I am glad to read this thread this morning since I just picked up my first Chinon yesterday afternoon; a model 7000. I have not run it yet but probably will this weekend. Now I may be a little hesitant......

Posted by Joe Balitzki (Member # 438) on March 08, 2013, 06:35 AM:

With many (most) auto threading projectors, running a print in reverse is asking for trouble as its likely the film will be scratched or worse. I own a Chinon 9500 which before their Stereo model was the top of the line. I purchased it barely used in like new condition with its original box, packing, manual, and accessories. So far, I have not had any problems with it but I keep it clean and if the gate becomes worn it won't be used anymore. It has quite a few desirable features and a 150W lamp. However, while some parts are easily cleaned the gate is not one of them. I own several Elmo machines in both Super 8mm & 16mm. They are kind to film and easy to clean. Removing a print midway through a viewing is relatively easy but must be done carefully. Your best bet is to get a Elmo that has been checked and overhauled. The 1200 series are workhorses and have nice lenses available for them. The large reel capacity will spoil you. Having said that, some prefer the GS Stereo series. However, besides being expensive if they need service it will become costly to own. There are many features on them so there is more that can go wrong. They are Nice if you can afford them and the cost of maintenance. But your best value overall is the 1200 series. Just remember that some plastic parts may wear and eventually cause scratches so you do need to check them periodically. But the Gate on a Elmo is metal and it swings open for easy cleaning. The only other machine I would consider is a high end Sankyo like their Stereo 800. But you need the accessory lens for it to get a nice Bright picture and those are not easily found. High End Eumig machines are desirable but on this side of the pond they are not easily found. And its easier to obtain parts and service for Elmos. Finally, just the other day I had a long phone chat with a repairman who has owned just about every brand ever made for Super 8mm. His machine of choice and what he uses is Elmo. I almost forgot: if you ever plan to run CinemaScope prints its easier to mount the lens on a Elmo and some models can be fitted with a 2 Bladed Shutter for more light on the Widescreen. Yes, its a matter of personal choice and opinion. But many of us "Old Timers" have a Elmo or more than one!

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on March 08, 2013, 07:00 AM:

quote:
I have 3 chinon super8 projectors, a 7000 and a 7500MV and a tv-type one aswell and i have had no problems with them.They play all of my films even the ones with some creases.

I think we should be clear here; it was the SP 330 series that had the non-side sprung gate that caused some (mostly package movies) to bow and then scratch.

I'm not aware that this particular gate arrangement was fitted to other models, perhaps someone on here knows?

Mike [Cool]

Posted by Elyas Tesfaye (Member # 3356) on March 08, 2013, 08:17 AM:

WOW!!! I'm glad to hear this post has become so popular. For the record, I got my Chinon almost brand new as well and so far, haven't had any problems with it, thank God! But thanks to all you nice folks' feedbacks, I will be keeping an eye out for it to maintain its 'A game'. Also, I'm eyeing an Elmo 1200 series at the moment and might go for it, provided I have the doe, of course lol. Thanks again, good people, and hope y'all are havin an awesome start to the weekend [Smile]

!!!

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on March 08, 2013, 10:35 AM:

I use Chinons and never had a problem with them eating my films. (I keep them fed). I also use an Elmo ST1200 and that doesn't eat films either. So go figure [Confused]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 08, 2013, 10:56 AM:

quote:
Also, I'm eyeing an Elmo 1200 series at the moment and might go for it,

Elyas, I thought you were leaving super 8mm for 16mm.

Posted by Timothy Price (Member # 1832) on March 08, 2013, 11:34 AM:

Have two Chinons - Love 'em both. [Smile]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 08, 2013, 01:50 PM:

I also have two CHinon's both are the 9500 model, (magnetic and optical sound) and I two have never had a problem with films being eaten. I think that was a problem with some of the "lower on the totem pole" models. As they built more advanced machines, they were better all around. Very high quality stereo playback on that Chinon 9500 as well!

Posted by Elyas Tesfaye (Member # 3356) on March 08, 2013, 03:59 PM:

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it and Winbert, that's what I thought too but 16mm is jus a little too expensive for me so I might not give up on super 8 all together [Wink]

... By the way, add me to the list of people that haven't had any problems with their Chinons, if anything, I find that mine is very tolerant of some bad films with splices from hell and then some I get every once in a while on ebay. More screen shots coming soon to the 8mm review, of course played on my Chinon SP 330MV. Thanks y'all and have a great weekend [Smile]

!!!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 08, 2013, 04:31 PM:

Good to know you do not give up with super 8mm.

I have been 25 years collecting super 8mm but never get any interest to move to bigger format. It is not only because of the price but 16mm film take so many space.

To be honest with you all, that I am projecting film not aiming to find picture quality but more because of sentimental feeling. So when using 8mm film I got already that felling I don't bother with bigger format. If I want to get better picture quality (sorry guys) I just turn on my DVD and LCD projector.

Btw, I am also a 330MV user, but this when I let my kids playing around with the projector.

The plastic gate that Osi mentions has a benefit side that you can project a (slightly) VS contaminated film without any shake. I have experienced when my film got a little VS (but film has curled) played terrible shaky at Elmo ST-1200 or GS-1200, it played quite steady at 330MV.

I have a surplus of Elmo ST-800 in a new condition come with the original box, should you are looking for one. It is a little cheaper than your 330MV but obviously higher quality. [Wink]

You don’t need to worry with high shipping cost since we are both in Canada.

Posted by Thomas Dafnides (Member # 1851) on March 08, 2013, 07:02 PM:

My Chinon 9500mv uses the same EFP bulb as my Eumig 824...but the bulbs in the 9500 last at least twice as long as in the Eumig. They seem to last forever and even seem brighter in the Chinon. I have not been able to figure this out...the Eumig has a very powerful fan...and I theorize it is cooling down the halogan bulb down too rapidly ( which shortens their life), during rewind.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on March 09, 2013, 01:48 AM:

Hi Clinton. These days the dual gauge Eumig sound projectors can be fussy on 40+ year old acetate films which are either showing signs of shrinking, or are for the most part badly shrunken. This is more to do with the condition of the film being put through the projector than the machine itself. The dual projectors did feature a single claw tooth due to the necessity of being dual gauge, but the Super 8 only sound machines having twin claws are faultless and will project just about any old acetate film within reason.

As for Chinon folks time has moved on but they were built for a price slot, high street market and I guess did the trick for thousands. Today you can pick up a used good quality projector for relatively little money and put on a much better show.
Many of you reading this post will I am sure remember attending the final Ten Best shows at Blackpool where a Chinon was always used including that annoying grinding noise, wandering focus and our competition films were returned with a nice scratch. I just cant imagine USA collectors who are spending up to $1000 on a Star Wars feature using a Chinon, or are you?

Posted by Luis Caramelo (Member # 2430) on March 09, 2013, 04:53 AM:

hi! i got also an chinon st-1200 ,it runs very smoth never got a scratch or eateen any film,there,s some models who can bring some factory defect,but i guess in some times it,s a question of luck,anyway i prefer the elmo...

regards:
luis caramelo

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 09, 2013, 05:29 AM:

Hi,
I've got a Chinon SS1200 which i've never had a problem with,it's never marked a film and threads 1st time every time,Also have Elmo's as well which i also like,Mark

Posted by Joe Balitzki (Member # 438) on March 09, 2013, 03:19 PM:

It appears that the higher up the Chinon line you went, the better the build quality. Does the SS-1200 have a plastic pressure plate in the gate? I have been told that the recording & playback heads wear out quicker as the metal used is less durable/softer than what Elmo used.

Posted by Elyas Tesfaye (Member # 3356) on March 11, 2013, 01:00 PM:

Hi Win,
thanks a lot for the heads up, I appreciate it. I will sell my Chinon first n get back to ya on getting this one from you. Have yourself a great week and I will be sure to check back with ya in a couple of weeks, sir [Smile]

!!!

Best,
ET

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on March 16, 2013, 09:32 PM:

When my Sankyo Sound 501 could not hold a steady image any longer back in the early 1980's (it had losts of use from new), I bought a Chinon 9500. I ran brand new print through it and then a favourite of mine. It scratched both.

I sold it at a loss - I described it as rough on film! Then I bought an Elmo ST 1200 and never had a scratched film again. A friend has had a Chinon that he bought new and his has always performed well. I just don't think they had the build quality or design to withstand less than perfect assembly. They reputedly made more Super 8 projectors (under various brands) than anyone else.

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