8mm Forum: Elmo GS-1200 Xenon problem

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Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on April 15, 2013, 05:15 PM:

I just got my new (re-furbished) GS-1200 Xenon. At first it looked just awesome ... After a couple of films, my friend and I notice the picture is moving sideways. Sometimes it jerks to the left (screens left) ... Did this a lot during a movie and I never seen the print before and thought it was the print that had problems. After running a few more films, the same happened on about 50-60% of the titles we saw. Tested them in my ST-1200D and they ran fine there. Got a few suggestions from Bill Parsons (who did the refurbishing), but maybe someone else had any good suggestions as to what could cause this. Any tips welcome

Thanks

Posted by frank arnstein (Member # 330) on April 15, 2013, 08:21 PM:

Hi Vidar,

My 1st tip is to carry out Bill Parsons instructions to the letter. He just sold this to you so he knows it better than anyone else. Have you tried doing what ever he told you to do?

My only other tip is to check the fine spring that loads the side film guide in the gate. They can pop out at the end and then the film can move sideways.

good luck fixing it and we will all be interested in the answer when you find it.

dogtor frankarnstein
[Smile]

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on April 15, 2013, 10:57 PM:

Where the films acetate or estar? On mine acetate is a problem and is not steady at all. Fortunately most of my super 8's are estar.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on April 16, 2013, 04:58 AM:

I will try the cleaning of the film as Bill suggested, I did check that spring, which is also what Bill suggested :-)

In a week or so, I'll get my brand new Raiders of the Lost Ark, will try with that. As to what type of film, I have absolutely no idea how you see the difference. It's not difficult to cut with the cutter as some films are (is that the two types you mean?)

And I did run the movie the next day (about 3 minutes of it) and it wasn't doing it then ... Will see more more films, I did push the spring on the side to feel the tension, it wasn't all strong, but probably shouldn't be either. Maybe it was stuck, but will try again today

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on April 16, 2013, 05:20 AM:

This I found while looking for other film thing. I don't know if it works though. Its for checking if the film base is ester. web page

"A non-destructive method to tell Polyester (Estar, etc.) from Acetate

One technique is to use crossed polarizers, such as camera filters or 3-D glasses. Overlap the polarizers, and orient them so that they are opaque. Place the film between them. If it is acetate, it will appear opaque. If it is polyester (Estar, etc.) it will depolarize the light, and the area of the film will appear less opaque."

The article is near the bottom of the page.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on April 16, 2013, 05:40 AM:

Hello Vidar. Really unusual to read this and likewise I wonder if it is acetate films you are running which may need lubricating due to shrinkage? The problem these days with the old acetate films is that with such a small format shrinkage is exaggerated if we think those tiny sprocket holes are so close together and getting closer with age. With very shrunken films I give them a heavy dose of Film Renew and pop them in a can overnight, then wind them back through a clean lint free cloth 24 hours later to take off any excess.

Some of the old black and white super 8 acetate prints were sometimes slit after printing a bit slap dash causing side weave. If the slitting of double run prints was not carried out correctly this did cause the problem you mention. Young Bill has given some correct guidance so take your time and don’t rush into any screwdriver adjustments yourself which you may later regret.

Expect bill has told you, but open the gate and have a look to the right to check the single spring which pushes the film side guide. The spring locates at two points above and below as you will see. It’s easy when cleaning the gate to accidentally knock these little clip in points and releasing the spring.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on April 16, 2013, 06:42 AM:

I won't rush anything :-)

Yes, that's the spring Bill told me to check. Only thing is, it moves, but how much pressure it should give, I have no idea. I guess not too much, so it looks okay.

And would the same film work then not work (it's about 50/50 or so I believe) ... Same film run twice and worked the second time. Will test some more movies tonight and hoping it was the spring on the side. Only testing will tell. Film Renew is something I can't get I believe? Something about not being allowed to ship overseas or something?

Appreciate all the feedback

Posted by Ian O'Reilly (Member # 76) on April 16, 2013, 08:49 AM:

Hi Vidar
Just to add my twopenny worth from comments made so far. I would not run any print through a projector without first cleaning the print, as the build up of hairs and associated muck running through the gate will certainly cause problems in the gate.
One way to identify acetate from Estar is to hold it up to the light Estar is more transparent than acetate, the other way
( not to be recommended ) is to try and tear the film, acetate will break, polyester will not also it is very hard to use a
film trimmer on polyester.
I am concerned about your new acquisition of "Raiders Of the Lost Ark" being a new print (Green) it will need lubricating i.e waxing before projection other wise the film will judder through the projector.
I hope this helps.
Ian

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on April 16, 2013, 09:08 AM:

Oh, a new print isn't even safe? Hmmm ... Ordered from Steve Osborne, hope he has done this if it otherwise causes problems.

Thanks

And I still wonder what I can use and how to use it. It's not the cleaning where you need a can to soak it in for months, is it? What is allowed to be sent to Norway? I believe one was not allowed and another type was

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