8mm Forum: Mould mould mould

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Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 10, 2013, 03:18 PM:

[Mad]

After all my years of collecting pampering and cleaning my collection i was so dismayed at seeing some of my best films with mould getting into them, but only the ones on the Elmo metal reels in crappy card boxes, [Mad]

Ive kept them all in the same place in a dark room for the last thirteen years, i keep dates of when they are cleaned and viewed, all cleaned with film guard, some as recently as two years ago, short of bringing them all upstiars at normall room tempretures i cant think of what else to do. They are all now cleaned again, (i really dont want to over do the cleaning)Its very odd as the room i use for films is my dedicated,carpeted room below our living room at the front of the house, it is also central heated when i do put the house heating on, the films,(in my picture) are on a wall which backs onto the living quaters to my neighbour so that is an insulated wall, elp!!!!!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on June 10, 2013, 03:21 PM:

the humidity must be high in your room. Water is trap between the walls.

The best solution is to have an Air Cond on day and night.

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on June 10, 2013, 03:53 PM:

You may have to get a dehumidifier they work wonders.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 10, 2013, 04:19 PM:

i think your right, its strange thats its only happened in the last year,

Posted by Lee Bombard (Member # 3740) on June 10, 2013, 04:43 PM:

Winbert and Jim are correct. It takes dampness to grow mold. Once it starts the material in paper or cardboard is some of molds favorite food.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on June 10, 2013, 04:46 PM:

Tom, you can know what happen in your house but not in your neighbors' house.

A broken water pipe can increase humidity in their house and then go to your house. Not to mention some old houses still use water heater to heat the house instead of using natural gas.

There is always Einstein's rules about energy that includes water that it will never dies but changing the form. So once it is inside your house it will be inside your house house unless you can bring it out and the water goes out to the sky.

(ps: but still when it evaporates to the sky, the water only changes the form. It will eventually be back to the earth in form of water (i.e rain). Water cannot go to outer space)

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on June 10, 2013, 05:00 PM:

Try and get hold of some silicagel Tom, the little sachets that
usually come with electrical items, as this absorbs moisture.
Try to avoid any storage against an outside wall,especially a non
cavity solid stone/brick wall.A simple solution is a through-vent
to the outside that will let air circulate.Gas fires are a source of dampness appearing on walls/ceilings etc, as it is a moist heat.
An open fire or electric heating won't cause problems either,but
the room must have ventilation.Think of a house much the same as yourself,it must be allowed to breathe or problems will
appear.Even your own presence in an unventilated room will
cause dampness,as you're giving of moisture in body heat &
exhalation, and this moisture will make for the coolest part of your room to condensate.A little trick my Mum used to do with
biscuits in the biscuit barrel, to keep them crisp,was to place a
cube of sugar to absorb moisture, wrapped up, it could help your problem with your films in cans etc.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on June 10, 2013, 07:49 PM:

Be very careful of mold spores. They multiply more than rabbits. Look for any signs of dampness. Every nook and crevice has to be checked. It's growing somewhere and has to be stopped ASAP.

Good luck.

PatD

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on June 11, 2013, 02:23 AM:

Mould can also cause health problems, so you need to take care of yourself too.

One of the problems with all this insulation is you then don't get any 'natural' ventilation. You could try a dehumidifier, although it could make things too dry. Silica-gel works well and you can regenerate them in the oven. We used to have them when I worked on BT to put in cable joints, the old lead cables were paper insulation.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on June 11, 2013, 04:05 AM:

If there's mould on the walls Tom,wipe them down with a solution of water and 10% Domestos or other household bleach, but you
must fit a ventilator for air movement.Dehumidifiers cause problems of their own and are not for the long term.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 11, 2013, 06:21 AM:

Thanks everyone, tonight i'll check the whole room but so far its very weird as the only films affected are the ones on the Elmo 1200 ft spools, obviously metal does get cold and dewy so will help mould spores spread, i may temporarily bring these films up into the rest of the house, i shall post some pices tonight, hopefully i'll be able to explain the room better. The walls are all fine,
I shall follow up with some more pics.

Posted by Moshe Yitzhak (Member # 2718) on June 11, 2013, 06:58 AM:

once you got it. its spread like epidemic.
its really hard to beat it.

the only way to eliminate it - its burnning it.
or quaretine it on a special for mould projector.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on June 11, 2013, 10:01 AM:

Tom, cleaning your shelves and film cabinet with anti-bacterial wipes will also help keep it in check....

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on June 11, 2013, 12:35 PM:

Hi Tom. Hugh is right yet again, you need go treat yourself to some Silly Gel which you can get off Amazon for instance. (Silica Gel - 50g (Gram) Bag) I’ve had some of these thrown around the film archive just in case as well as a precaution. The worst I have ever seen damp damage to a film was fairly recently with a 16mm film which came in for transfer to DVD. As the film came off the reel so did all the emulsion as powder due to excessive moisture probably from my customer storing the film in the shed. I also keep one of those £1 ‘151’ damp boxes you can get from Asda on the very bottom shelf and so far many moons on never had a problem. Also, in the bottom of cine projector storage cases I also keep some Silica Gel to protect machines. When the gel has had its day it goes rock hard and need to replace the little packets.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on June 11, 2013, 01:31 PM:

Thanks for those kind words Lee, also the gel can be reactivated
in a warm oven for re use.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 11, 2013, 02:15 PM:

Silly Gel now ordered, thank you all, here is an update with some images i took tonight to hopefully give all a good understanding of the layout of the film room, its curruntly being cleared out completley so i can start again,
First picture is at the bottom of the stairs which is below ground at the front but slopes to ground level at the back with the door shown to the garden at the rear, the first door to the right is the film room, the second door to the right is the garage which does get plenty of air, Do you like the hand painted Disney characters? we did that ten years ago to brighten up the basement and make it more of a movie area,oh and that christmas thing is always there

this next image shows just inside the door, the room to the left of wall behind the projector is the garage, the window between the film room and garage is a sealed unit so i think we need to make this an opening window which will allow air in,

This is the screen end, obviously [Big Grin]

, Behind the screen is a false partition and behind that is the main front house wall below the ground level at the front, to the two lower ends are plastic vents, if you tap the wall in the black area its hollow.

Here is the projector area just inside the door, the sealed window is behinf the picture, the film storage area has all films six inches from the wall, the wall is the dividing wall between my house and next door and that room next door is a converted living room, it was the basement and garage, i have empty plastic cases against the wall at the far end so the first film is two in, all films are at leaset six inches off the wall at the backs.The shelves are wood, the area where the figures are is the base of the chimney brest and all the chimney pots are capped, one with a vent for the gas fire upstirs which is never used as we have gas fired central heating.

And finally a low shot showing the room is carpeted with a central heating radiator to the left, (out of shot) which is rarly used.
All said and done last September the house next door was altered and the lower area next to this room was changed from basement to living area and im not convinced our new problems arnt related to work done as the whole floor next door would have had a damp proof membrane put down before the new floor was laid. The light spots on the wall are where i painted some patches and didnt match the paint, [Embarrassed]

So at the moment the mould is restricted to 1200 Elmo reel and the speakers by the screen but i clean every week in here now to keep an eye and hopefully the scilly gel will help.
Any other views would be welcomed.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on June 11, 2013, 04:34 PM:

Very nicely done Tom,a great space to call one's own and enjoy
your films. Those murals must've taken a bit of time painting,
now that's what I call a cine buff.
As for your damp problem,it seems to me that it could be sorted out very simply.The builders that have capped the chimney, and
left no ventilation in that breast,should have their arses kicked.
By doing so,they leave the possibility of dry rot formation,which
just needs damp, still air to form.Assuming the "feathers" are sound, (they are the dividing walls between your chimney flues)
it would be a simple task to put proper flue vents on the chimney and a plaster or plastic vent in the room.Chances are
if it is an older property,then the feathering could have gapped
or crumbled,which would mean a flexible flue liner to any gas
appliances using that chimney to avoid any flue gases coming
into room.A golden rule in the building trade is, all chimney flues must be vented.Hope this helps.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 11, 2013, 05:00 PM:

thanks hugh, yes mine have been capped by the use of slates so no ventilation in the chimney [Frown]

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on June 11, 2013, 05:28 PM:

Well for what it's worth Tom, galvanised chimney vents
need putting on the chimney proper,and a vent in the base.
This will automatically change the air in the room, just by functioning as a chimney,resulting in a drier atmosphere.
Just check that there are flexible tubes to any gas fires etc as we
don't want carbon monoxide entering the property.
The job will be a bit cheaper than any interior alterations, which
by the sound of it, would'nt have made much difference.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on June 12, 2013, 02:12 AM:

Nice pictures Tom and I can see you are a devoted Cine man at heart. Nice. Lovely B&B painting on the wall as well which must look pretty stunning in real life, and welcome to the Silly Gel club!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 12, 2013, 02:22 PM:

Thanks Hugh and Lee, all good advise which i will be following up, and in the meantime i shall move the films until its all sorted. [Wink]

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on June 26, 2013, 07:26 AM:

Could the problem be that the films are constantly damp? I still have about half a tin of 2.22 film cleaner and preserver, which is no longer made, and although I probably overwet the films it dried very quickly, leaving an invisible permanent microscopic deposit, according to the maker. I remember that you had to buy a solvent if you wanted to remove it. Like you, I keep my films in dark, cool conditions. A year ago I looked at the first films I took in 1973, and they were as good as new.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 26, 2013, 12:12 PM:

Hi Robert, well, now you mention it, in years gone by i always used 222 myself but over the last four years we have cleaned all 350 of our movies using Film Guard and as i understand it they pretty much stay wet(ish), i do think that my problem is to do with our chimneys being capped off with only one of the four pots being vented, ive since checked the whole room (corners etc) but these are all ok, oddly enough the only reels effected are the dozen or so on metal Elmo 1200ft spools, all the others are unaffected, we now have a very nice supply of silica gel packs all around the films, (top and behind the films) and in corners, all discreetly placed out of view. Fingers crossed once i get the ventilation sorted we should be OK.

OHHHH, i did forget to mention one thing and i think this may almost certainly have been a factor, take a look at this image here,,,,,

You see the washing line? [Embarrassed]

Well, with the horrid winter of virtualy non stop rain we had from September to April meant that we were using this line to hang up fresh washing, almost on a daily basis, with the movie room shown here as the first door on the right clearly this is going cause some problems, How stupid am i not to even think of this [Frown]

, i am now banning all washing being hung up indoors.

[ June 26, 2013, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Tom Photiou ]

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on June 27, 2013, 04:30 AM:

Hello Tom, very nice to make contact with you. I have a couple of corners in my home that get damp, one corner in a bedroom, and one kitchen cupboard where all cardboard boxes disintegrate. Where I store my films, books, projectors, everything is fine. We just have one chimney which has a cowl on it. My father use to dry clothes indoors in the winter, we now have a dryer. The weather seems to be worsening in the UK, with drying indoors more often. I think you need to get rid of the clothes line and protect your precious collection. Nice looking home cinema you have there.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on June 27, 2013, 05:08 AM:

I tend to point the finger at central heating. What we need to do more of is open the windows and get plenty of air blowing through the house to circulate somewhat. Nothing like a good blow to clear the damp away! [Big Grin]

Pretty clear UK weather is getting wetter and we got caught in the floods a bit ago in Yorkshire. With a tirade of water coming at us sat in the car we were one of the few cars to make it to high ground as I sat there shouting ‘head for high ground’. We’re not prepared for extreme conditions over here I fear but we do have some classic bankers!

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on June 27, 2013, 05:28 AM:

Central heating, wall to wall carpets, draught excluders, all this is responsible for my respiratory problems. I was much healthier growing up in a cold house with linoleum in the bedroom.

Posted by Bradford A Moore (Member # 426) on June 27, 2013, 08:51 PM:

I would strongly recommend putting the films on plastic reels. The cardboard boxes are fine. They help the films breathe. Metal reels and metal cans, can help to cause VS. I personally only use metal reels for cleaning purposes. Most of my films are in their original cardboard boxes if possible. I feel they are the best way to go, or plastic cans with air holes that Larry Urbanski sells.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 29, 2013, 03:12 AM:

Sounds good Bradford, i'll look into that as well, the only reason we stuck with the Elmo 1200 reels was because they seem to be the only large super 8 spools that dont warp and wobble side to side when viewing, we do have some 1600 supaspools but a couple of them have "narrow" sections which as the film gets below around 400ft becomes quite noisey as the film is kind of squeezed, if you know what i mean? It does make sense now as i have at last checked every spool of film and the only ones that were affected are the ones on the Elmo 1200 metal spools, We have Terminator two mounted on 2 1600ft plastic spools in a plastic 16mm can and this one is absoutley fine, and of corse i have banned all wet washing being hung up in the basement area next to the film room and have to say the smell is gone, we are also waiting to have our chimney re potted with the correct ventilating pots. Fingers crossed its been caught in time, i will soon be clearing the room, getting rid of the trash and toys as the children are now growing up, a new coat of paint, re-arrange my posters,hopefully get a new light put in as a flouresent tube doesnt really give it the right feel [Big Grin]

and hopefully it'l all look much better, assuming i survive the next round of redundancies at work otherwise its all on hold.
Thank you to everyone for your valued help on this matter. [Smile]

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