8mm Forum: newbie setting up B&H filmosound super 8 system

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Posted by Doug Arnott (Member # 4049) on December 05, 2013, 06:26 AM:

Hello everyone, I'm brand new here (or to any forum actually) so I hope I'm not breaking any protocalls.
I've shot a lot of super 8 sound (up untill we can't get kodachrome processed anymore.) So I'm trying to put together a dual system. I'm getting ready to try out some B&H filmosound equipment I've been gathering. So far I've got the Cannon auto zoom 814, a 458a projector, a couple of b&h 450a tape recorders (ebay cheapies, hope one of them works LoL!) And the cable that goes from the camera to recorder (b&h cable 42642)
The only thing I'm missing is the tape to projector cord, cable 42917
So I'm wondering if anyone might know if I could just connect them up with a couple of double ended male cords, like one double 1/8 mono and a double mini jack mono, or is there some kind of electronic gadgetry inside that oversized factory plug ?
Hopefully someone has tried this setup before. Also I'm wondering does anyone know what keeps this system is sync ? Is the projector slaved from pulses from the tape deck ? Or is the projector sending the deck a signal and slaving the tape to its speed ?
Sorry about the long winded post. Just excited about trying to get this working !

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on December 05, 2013, 08:11 AM:

Welcome ! I was critised last time I did that but I remind that a British company sells black and white super 8 sound cartridges (they are not new and not cheap). Just for your information : http://theoldfilmcompany.com/Page4_10.htm

Posted by Doug Arnott (Member # 4049) on December 05, 2013, 08:48 AM:

Thank you very much Dominique [Smile]

I had never heard of that place before, and trust me I've searched alot lol. I do have a few sound kodachrome cartridges still, and some ektachrome 160 sound also. So I guess ill use that first. Its nice to know there's some available out there still though !

I really want to get a double system set up of some kind together though. And use some fresh film. I ordered a R1008-MD box from pedro recently that I can use with one of my cameras with a pc socket.But that still leaves me the problem of syncing up with
The projector to view the film.
The only solutions I'm finding so far are pretty expensive ones [Confused]

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on December 05, 2013, 09:30 AM:

Doug

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!

PatD

Posted by Doug Arnott (Member # 4049) on December 05, 2013, 10:49 AM:

Thank you Pat [Smile]

its good to be here among fellow film addicts LoL
Happy holidays to you as well !!

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on December 05, 2013, 05:20 PM:

Welcome Doug!

I was going to try to set up the same system a few years ago but I only have the camera (works) the tape recorder (that doesn't work) and one cord but I can't remember which one it is. Let me check it out and get back to you...

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Doug Arnott (Member # 4049) on December 06, 2013, 12:36 AM:

Wow that would be great Bill, [Smile]

Thank you so much !!

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on December 24, 2013, 03:48 PM:

Doug...

I have not forgotten about the cord, I have been working a lot and I finally have some time off and I am going to track it down so I will let you know when I find it!

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Doug Arnott (Member # 4049) on December 25, 2013, 11:23 PM:

Thanks a lot Bill...it was nice to hear from you ...Merry Christmas and Happy New year ! [Smile]

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on December 28, 2013, 10:21 PM:

I found it...I have the recorder to projector cord...you can have it, just send me a pm with your address and I'll send it to you. I was gathering up the same equipment as you and never did get the right projector to work with the system and I guess I gave up after getting one of the tape recorders and I couldn't get it running. The one end of the cord that goes into the projector, one of the contacts is a little corroded and may need cleaned up. The cord may or may not work...I hope it does. I am encouraged that you are trying to set this system up. You'll have to let us know how it goes!

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Doug Arnott (Member # 4049) on December 29, 2013, 02:31 AM:

Thank you so much Bill ! That's very kind of you.
I have been playing around with the 3 tape recorders I've got here and it seems lke one of them I may be able to press into service. The rewind doesn't work on that one but the fast forward and play does. Havent tried the record yet but I'm hopeful since it plays. The other one is dead (maybe broken belt) and he other one moves intermittent, seems to be slipping.
I did manage to find a tape recorder repair manual online that I bought (cost more than all 3 recorders together lol ) but sourcing the belts and parts may be challanging. I've got to study the manual some more as this is a little different from the industrial machinery I'm used to working on in the past.
One bit of info I did glean so far is that the projector is speed regulated by the tape recorder circuit, and there IS some circuitry inside the large connector on the camera to tape recorder cord. As I find more answers to my original questions and a better technical understanding of this system in general I will post them here in case tthere's anyone else following that's interested in this double sound system ...Doug [Smile]

Posted by Doug Arnott (Member # 4049) on January 13, 2014, 02:36 AM:

I finally have all the components of this system together !!! Special thanks to Bill Phelps for sending me the recorder to projector cord.. you rock Buddy ! I took one more chance on another ebay filmosound tape recorder. This one seems to have all the functions working (now I have 4 tape recorders LoL. Hey at least I have plenty of spare parts , the last one was only 14 bucks) so ill be shooting a test roll this week and sending it off to Dwaynes. Ill be sure to make a post and let you all know how it works out.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on January 13, 2014, 07:35 AM:

Sounds great! I hope it works out. I am going to shoot some film this year...I have some old stock in the freezer...I haven't shot too much since 2010 when Kodachrome processing was ending and I shot a good 15 rolls. I have B&W and a bit of E160. It's expensive to get that processed but thats probably going to run out too so I need to use it.

I'm looking forward to hearing your progress with the Filmosound 8!

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 13, 2014, 08:29 AM:

As regards how the projector is kept in sync, usually these double-system recordings work this way: during filming, a reference pulse is recorded on the tape alongside the live sound. During projection this pulse controls the frame advancing on the projector so the projector is slaved to the sound.
And the film suggested by Dominique is actually sound Kodachrome which can be processed as B/W nowadays. Hope this helps.

Posted by Doug Arnott (Member # 4049) on January 15, 2014, 05:34 AM:

Thanks Maurizio,
I appreciate the info. Since I started. This thread I got hold of a copy of the B&H filmosound 8 model 45 tape recorder service manual. And yes your exactly right, in thier system the projector is slaved to the tape recorder. It uses a 1 volt 10ms sync pulse signal to record camera speed. The cassettes that came with this system were 7 minute leaderless tapes, that you could only record on one side of. As the heads are set up to record mono sound on the side one track, and the sync pulse on a quarter track of side B at the same time (one channel of a stereo track basically) there's no erase head on the sync signal track so you could change the audio of your film without losing the sync signal. The projector sends it a tach signal during playback with its 1/f switch then the tape recorders circuitry compares them and adjusts the projectors speed. So the tape recorder really holds the heart of this system. If anyone is interested I could scan and post this manual to the manuals section, but right now im gonna get busy with shooting and playing around with this outfit. LoL. Thanks !

Posted by Doug Arnott (Member # 4049) on November 08, 2014, 06:08 PM:

Hello everyone, just thought id post an update. I notice its been almost a year since I was working on this [Eek!]

Life got kind of crazy for me for awhile with a couple major illness' s in the family. Then the flood around here last summer and I was involved with recovering damage in 3 different basements !! Anyway filming kind of took a backseat for awhile but im currently dusting off my equipment and about to give this system a try. Ill keep you posted. Again special thanks to Bill Phelps for providing me with the hard to find much needed projector cord !! It WILL be put to good use !!!

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