8mm Forum: Questions about Elmo St 1200 series

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Posted by Dan Red (Member # 4303) on June 19, 2014, 01:09 AM:

Ive been transferring 8mm-film using a couple of Kodak Moviedecks that use a 50w bulb. Ive come upon some films with sound and need to invest in a projector that will get me sound and a brighter picture would be nice.

Thanks to this great website…my search has so far ended with the Elmo St 1200 series. It looks like an antique compared to my old Moviedeck but it does have a 150W bulb and some good reviews on this website. My old Moviedeck has been very easy to use and maintain. I understand that the Elmo St-1200 series is as well. Is this true?

Does anybody know if any of these Elmo St 1200’s transfer standard 8mm? Or just Super 8mm?

Should I be able to load about any size reel? (3”- 7”)?

Any additional help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance!
[Smile]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on June 19, 2014, 02:08 AM:

Elmo st 1200 are Super 8 only. They take 1200 feet (360 meter) reels.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 19, 2014, 04:52 AM:

Dan
If you want a dual-gauge sound projector you could look at some of the Eumig range, although they have 100 watt lamps.

Posted by Dan Red (Member # 4303) on June 19, 2014, 11:43 PM:

Janice indicated that I should be considering less light as opposed to more light. Is this to keep the darks darker and the lights lighter?

The Elmo ST-1200 bulb is 150w. My current Moviedeck projector bulb is only 50w. This would be a huge 100w jump. If using such a bright bulb I think I will need to get a much larger screen and move the projector way back to keep the darks dark and the lights from bleeding off.

I have several old Moviedecks that take a 50w bulb. I noticed that Janice uses a Moviedeck that takes an 80w bulb. I wonder what would happen if I swapped the 50w with an 80w bulb in one of my old Moviedeck.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated

Posted by James E. Stubbs (Member # 817) on June 21, 2014, 12:35 AM:

ST1200 series not an ideal projector for transfer. Adjusting speed can be tricky and requires some dis-assembly. 150W Osram Xenophot great from projection, lousy for telecine. You'll get major hotspots. An old TRV machine with and upgraded camera is a better option, or and ST180E (Same body/ guts as TRV) with the speed adjustment added on (Leon Norris has these parts) or speed adjustment pots are very easy to get to. I've even run my St180e at 30FPS with a progressive shutter DV Cam! It sounds as if it's going to blow up any minute though. So I'd stick with a 20fps transfer. For best results change the bulb to a diffuse LED light source, or at a minimum stick a ground glass of some type between the bulb and the shutter to diffuse the light source and eliminate hot spots.
Cheers,

Posted by Dan Red (Member # 4303) on June 22, 2014, 12:17 AM:

I understand projection transfer concept fairly well, I however am now to “telecine.” Its sounds tedious, time consuming and expensive. Can anyone briefly describe this process or point me to a recourse that explains it?

I hear a lot about making tricky speed adjustments (both on projector and cam) to avoid flicker. I have used an assortment of SD and HD cams and a few different Kodak Moviedecks. I have not had to make any adjustment and have never had a flicker issue when looking at the final transferred product.

Sorry.. back to the subject. The consensus on these forums seem to be the Elmo 1200 is the best machine for projection transfers. I have only used Moviedecks and need to do a super 8 sound transfer… so I thought Id give the Elmo 1200 a shot.

It will be interesting to see what its brighter bulb will look like. (50w vs. 150w) I have an idea my camera will like the brighter bulb and wish I could transfer regular 8mm film with it. I recognize you don’t want to hot a bulb as you will create issues with what is supposed to be dark areas within the footage.

Does anybody have any more thoughts about the Elmo St series?
[Smile]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on June 22, 2014, 01:53 AM:

Dan...Projection transfer IS telecine. Telecine is the term for digitizing film. There are just several methods for doing telecine.

Home movies are typically shot at 18fps...your video camera is recording at 30fps. This means that there will be times when the shutter will be closed or closing that your camera will pick up. This is what causes the dark banding or flickering. Depending on the speed you are projecting the flickering can be minimal to severe. If your projector is running at 20fps or close to that...you may not perceive any flicker.

Unless your camcorder has variable shutter adjustments...without any modification to the Elmo 1200 projector you will probably notice the flicker. However, why don't you just try it and see what you think. If you are satisfied with the results...then that's all that counts.

Posted by Dan Red (Member # 4303) on June 22, 2014, 02:40 AM:

Thank you again Janice.

The Elmo 1200 sounds like the best projector out there for “telecine/film transfer” It is however pretty pricey and hard to find. I haven’t heard much negative about this projector and those on this particular thread that have looked at my set up seem to be positive about this investment.

I will continue to be open to more input about using an Elmo 1200 for film transfter.
[Smile]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on June 22, 2014, 05:03 PM:

Dan...I'm not sure where you are reading the 1200 is a good choice for telecine...just the opposite. It is good for film projections... NOT for transfers because it has a fixed speed adjustment (18/24fps). I misread your posts and thought you had already purchased this machine. Since you haven't you should look at other alternatives. You could look for a Bell & Howell 11XJ or another MovieDeck with sound.

Posted by Dan Red (Member # 4303) on June 22, 2014, 06:34 PM:

Thank you again Janice.

My method of transfer is by projection. I have briefly research a method in which film is scanned frame by frame. I don’t know what that method is called but concluded that it was very expensive and time consuming to process.

My Kodak Moviedeck are still my workhorses. I just need something to capture the sound off of some rare films I received. I thought I would just check out the Elmo 1200 to see what all the hype is about. I also want to see the effects (pro and con) of a brighter bulb. I have found ways to brighten the projected image with my Moviedecks and could figure some ways to dim the 1200 if necessary.

I have owned sever Moviedecks and have used an assortment of cameras to capture their projected image and have never noticed any flicker or any reason to adjust the speed. I recognize that everybody talks about shutter on the camera and manually speed adjustments on the projector. Ill continue to keep a critical eye on my results.

I will check out B&H 11XJ and will continue to be looking for 1200’s for sale.

I would like to contine looking for more info about the Elmo 1200’s for running a projecton onto a screen for film transfer purposes.

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on June 22, 2014, 07:45 PM:

Hello Dan,

I agree with most everything that Janice and James Stubbs have posted here. The only reservation I have is in using the Bell & Howell XJ because, although a decent projector with variable speed, the lens leaves much to be desired as it is made cheaply with low quality plastic elements.

You can also look for a GAF 3000 or 3100, Chinon 7500, 9000 or 9500 which have sound, variable speed and much better lenses and sound in addition to 150W lamps.

Good luck with your search and project.

Jon

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