8mm Forum: Andec explains delays on new releases

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 11, 2015, 09:25 AM:

Steve Osborne was told by Andec that switching back and forth between acetate & polyester printings have created some difficulties in getting new prints made. Due to the difference in thickness between the stocks, they had been resetting their machines for each run which has recently proven to be problematic.

Andec has decided that they will complete all acetate orders and then do a permanent switchover to polyester. Hopefully things will be back on track shortly.

Doug

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 11, 2015, 01:54 PM:

Well, THAT'S good news ...

... as I always felt that the image quality of the acetate prints (with that yellowish stock) were always lesser in comparison to the polyester stock, and that Kodak Vision polyester stock (unless they've moved onto yet another new polyester stock) has a very lovely look, sharp and very accurate with the colors.

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on April 11, 2015, 02:53 PM:

But does that mean the end to stereo prints?

Id rather have the acetate with the twin stripes?

Graham S

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 11, 2015, 04:54 PM:

I thought that just a single stripe would lead to differential focussing problems across the width of the screen, but I was dead wrong. I recently purchased a short from Steve Osbourne that was poyester with single stripe. Even using the Elmo f1.0 lens I could see no focus problem at all. The single stripe will also dramatically reduce wear on the narrow track 2 head, so I am all in favour of single stripe for mono sound prints.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on April 11, 2015, 05:25 PM:

Just think what called it 'balance' it was not really made to record sound on.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on April 11, 2015, 07:26 PM:

I also prefer the two stripe acetate film over main stripe only polyester. I like having the balance stripe and I like having stereo capability, but I guess that's the way it has to be.
That "yellow" tint on the acetate stock doesn't affect the colors at all in my opinion....

Posted by Jason Gronn (Member # 3921) on April 11, 2015, 08:14 PM:

Why the stereo tracks are great to have l am at the end of the day just greatful that we still have new films being printed and thank Andec and the two gents who we all know that release them for us and keep this hobby going. [Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 11, 2015, 11:44 PM:

IMHO the balance stripe is a very worthy addition to any Super 8mm film on Laminated striped stock, like Kodak, Agfa and Fuji all used to produce.

As we know since the termination of pre striped laminated stock by the big 3, pasted stripe has always been hit and miss to record on, adhere to the film stock as well as giving a far more uneven surface texture from it causing excessive head wear as Paul highlights.

With all this in mind, I don't think a balance stripe on pasted polyester offers much at all for the most part in terms of its recording abilities and is much much harder to bond to on polyester than acetate.

Therefore as Paul says, probably not having a pasted balance stripe on polyester offers greater merits to your projectors magnetic head than actually having one in terms of wear to the magnetic head.

It does of course, still wear the main stripe section of the head just the same, but as this is far wider than the balance side, it takes much longer to do so therefore saving the balance side of the head for your laminated prints is probably the most sensible thing to do nowadays given that magnetic replacement heads are becoming scarce now for a lot of the Stereo and Duo play models.

In the days when Mr Simmonds was striping polyester, some were fine as a recording device on both tracks, some were not. Once Derek sadly passed away, things became even worse unfortunately.

If Andec polyester striped prints are of similar quality, it doesn't surprise me at all, that they have chosen to opt out of even attempting to place the very narrow pasted balance stripe onto their polyester prints nowadays, due to the above mentioned reasons.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 12, 2015, 01:47 AM:

As others, I'm just happy that super 8 films are still printed. The balance strip is however a good thing as it is said it protects from scratches (it was an unexpected side effect). Stereo is for me a plus but not a must. But some non English speakers like to keep the original English sound on the balance strip when they dub their film in their own language.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on April 13, 2015, 12:21 AM:

Although a GOOD stereo track (and the Derann ones were varied in quality, to put it mildly) is nice to have, I'd rather have much better colour. I'm surprised that some find the acetate stock fine because (e.g.) you never get nice bright reds that look right. When blank leader that should be clear is yellow, you know you can't expect perfect colour. I heard that the acetate stock would be coming to an end at least about 18 months ago, so it's surprising it has lasted as long as it has. But maybe someone will master applying a balance stripe eventually.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 13, 2015, 02:04 AM:

Spot on Adrian. Now hopefully Andec will find a solution for the balance track.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 13, 2015, 12:38 PM:

I slightly "retract" my statement earlier, as, quite frankly, I am in awe that we super 8 collectors can STILL buy NEW, super 8 prints in 2015 ... acetate or polyester!!!! [Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 13, 2015, 05:13 PM:

I have to say, although I have only purchased Super 8mm shorts recently on Acetate, I have never been truly happy with any of them.

They all seem to suffer with a very poorly recorded soundtrack, have plenty of vertical movement in the frame and appear to have slitting issues judging by the way they run through any PJ that I have including the best of the lot for film transportation, the Bauer studio class.

Anyone else have similar or dissimilar experiences in recent years with new acetate prints?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 14, 2015, 02:09 PM:

I haven't had that particular problem, I have noted, however, that the acetate prints can be rather brittle, or at the least, they can snap easy and then you have a splice in you're brand new film.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 14, 2015, 02:38 PM:

Andrew, it could maybe help if you could list the titles you had problems with. So if other members bought the same titles, it would be easier to see clearer. I have personnally bought also some shorts recently released but found no problems with them. However I cannot tell wheter there are acetate or polyester.

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on April 14, 2015, 02:42 PM:

Yes, I agree with you, Andrew -- I'm seeing way too much movement in the frame and, generally, the sound is unacceptable (as in muffled and with much too much low end). While I appreciate that some new shorts and trailers are still released in 2015, I don't think that it's helpful that collectors are so forgiving of these blatant print faults just for the sake of having "new releases."

(Plus, I never got the whole re-recording thing -- after shelling out a lot of dough for a new print, the expectation seems to be that the sound will be so horrible on new prints that a full re-record is in order in addition to the [very] high price of the print???? In my mind, the sound should be damn-near perfect on every new release.)

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on April 14, 2015, 03:19 PM:

A couple of my older paste striopesd have a problem with the paste coming off.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on April 14, 2015, 09:40 PM:

I agree that it would be useful to know exactly what releases have had the flaws mentioned, and whether the prints have been acetate or polyestar. (Dominique: try tearing off a short piece of the front or end leader of a film. If you can't easily break it, it's polyester.)

Maybe too much movement reflects the resetting referred to, and hopefully might improve once all the prints are polyester. I hope sound quality isn't declining because I've generally found that CHC/Reel Image sound is better and more reliable than Derann's was in their later years.

I agree with John that collectors have every right to expect sound to be good without re-recording. If individuals re-recording can get better results, they should be offered the job of doing the recording in the first place!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 15, 2015, 01:43 AM:

In answer to Dominique's and Adrian's question, the two prints that spring to mind that I know for certain have vertical movement in the frame as well as relatively poor sound are, Partly Cloudy and the Chubba Chubbs. I am fairly certain (from memory) that both are on acetate, at least one doesn't have a balance stripe so perhaps that is on Polyester.Finally the sound as originally recorded was rather bassy and lacked any high end clarity as well as the recording level on both of my prints is recorded fairly low.

There are one or two others that without going through all my recent shorts and trailers, I cannot be certain which titles they are for sure, that suffer a similar trait also.

Johns observations tie in with mine and he is correct I feel in expecting the original sound track to be of a quality which cannot ordinarily be beaten by home recording methods for the price of the new prints.

It will be interesting to read if anyone else's prints are similar on either of these two titles.

At the end of the day, I will still take the odd disappointment
as opposed to no new prints at all, as Jason points out.
It would just be nice if quality control was guaranteed on all these small batches of new prints I feel.

[ April 15, 2015, 02:58 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 15, 2015, 07:35 AM:

I don't remember unsteady picture for Partly Cloudy. I don't have the other title. I looked in the review section. There is no mention for Partly Cloudy of the problem you faced, Andrew.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on April 15, 2015, 11:12 AM:

Yes I have heard of the problem with unsteady projection ie: image movement from "Partly Cloudy" as well. The seller informed me of it and I passed on it. It was definitely nice of them to tell me first. My copy of the "Penguins of Madagascar" had muffled sound when I got it. Its been re-recorded and is better now but still has drop outs that the older Derann stuff didn't have. My copy of "Gladiator" had bad sound as well. When I purchase something new I almost always assume it will have bad sound unfortunately.

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on April 15, 2015, 11:52 AM:

That's amazing, Alan, and disconcerting -- but I have to agree with you. Drop outs, muffled sound, and riding the volume control seem to be realities associated with new (and expensive) releases. With all that, as well as print/color/frame movement idiosyncrasies, I'm not really sure how that is somehow superior to digital projection --

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on April 19, 2015, 12:44 PM:

Partly Cloudy has been projected at the BFCC yesterday and I, indeed, noticed some up and down movments on that copy (I haven't checked mine, yet). But other new relesases were also part of the programm and they ran perfectly.

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