8mm Forum: Dudes! Help a sister out!

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Posted by Katy Woollatt (Member # 4890) on June 11, 2015, 05:20 AM:

Come on 8mm projector forum!
Surely one of you knowledgable chaps can give me some advice?!
You want new members to get into your hobby right!? ;-)
I just need someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong with my Yelco p-111q that I've got running, everything seems to be working ok but there's no clear projection. I can see the frames running past but no image or movie. Twisting the frame and focus knobs and running it faster and slower don't help.. Got the manual and it appears I'm doing everything I should be?!
Any advice would be appreciated!!!!
Katy

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on June 11, 2015, 05:48 AM:

Welcome to the forum. I'm not the best for pecific technical advises but have did you check the pressure plate ?

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on June 11, 2015, 05:49 AM:

Super 8 won't do Regular 8 and vice versa. Not a projector I know, but check the gauge is correct. Threading usually mean holding or pushing a button if it's auto. The light goes on, but no picture? Do you get light output on wall or screen?

Posted by Katy Woollatt (Member # 4890) on June 11, 2015, 07:13 AM:

Thanks for your replies! Haven't checked pressure plate, will have a look..
Yeah I worked out the hard way you need to change the sprocket depending on whether you have regular or super but that's set correctly now.. I'm getting a projection, I can see the frames going past, but they don't create an image or movie. Thought at first it might not be fast enough, but belts are holding ok and not slipping.. Something is maybe misalighned?

Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on June 11, 2015, 07:27 AM:

Hi Katy,

When you have tried all other suggestions I would look to the pull down claw, it sounds like it`s not engaging, I`m sorry I can`t help with this adjustment, but i`m sure some other member will be able to help.
My only advice would be to get it to a repairer.

Good Luck,
James.

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on June 11, 2015, 08:53 AM:

I agree with James it sounds as though the claw is not engaging the sprocket holes. I am not at all familiar with that projector. Does it have an inching knob?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 11, 2015, 09:47 AM:

I re-belted one of these about a year ago, and it's my son's projector now.

It does sound like the claw is not engaging the film. The sprockets sound like they are doing their job since the film is advancing.

Later on I'll take a look at his and get back to you.

Posted by Katy Woollatt (Member # 4890) on June 11, 2015, 11:52 AM:

Hi guys, thanks very much for your help. So Im looking at what I think is the pull down claw, but is well inside where I can't see. It appears to be moving in a square motion, but I can't tell if it's engaging the film. How will I be able to tell if this claw is or is not engaging the film?
Also, I fit new belts onto this and therefore had to remove internal parts and put them back. So the worm wheels that operate the gears that operate the shutter may have moved whereas the sprockets I didn't touch. Could this be the problem that things are out of sequence?
I'm not sure what an inching knob is, could this be the one marked 'frame'?
Steve - thanks I saw your post saying you had the same one. If you have chance to have a look and see what it could be that would be great thank you very much! X

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 11, 2015, 12:21 PM:

Katy, I wish I could help you, but I know nothing of the Yelco brand projector, but I should hope that you'll find ample enuf help!

All the best.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 11, 2015, 12:42 PM:

If I remember correctly, this machine does have an inching knob: this can be useful.

It's good if you can see the claw, we can use that and the inching knob to do some testing.

When you turn the knob the machine advances in extremely slow motion. If you watch the claw, it should move upward behind the gate surface, push forward so the claw teeth poke above the surface, sweep downwards, the teeth should retract and the cycle start all over again. (it's OK if this happens in reverse: you're just twisting the inching knob backwards!)

Sometimes the claw teeth are broken or bent, sometimes the mechanism is damaged.

"What can go wrong, will go wrong, in the worst possible way at the worst possible moment."

-Captain Edward Aloysius Murphy, Jr., Aerospace Engineer, USAF (1918–1990)

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on June 11, 2015, 12:49 PM:

Katy
With the power off turn the inching knob which is usually located on the front of the projector. This will slowly operate all the moving parts and if you lightly put your finger in the film gate you will feel the claw going in and out. If you are unable to get your finger in there, then just watch as you turn the inching knob and you should be able to see the claw operating slowly. The problem could be that the claw is not coming out fully so that it is not able to engage into the sprocket holes in the film. If this is the case then it is not a job that you can fix. It could also be the case that the claw is broken, also not fixable by you. Have a try and see if you can feel the claw moving when you turn the inching knob.

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on June 11, 2015, 03:47 PM:

I see in a previous post you mentioned that you had the wrong film in the machine and that you poked holes in the film with the claw. If that is the case it seems that the claw is protruding enough.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 11, 2015, 04:11 PM:

Logical!

Posted by Katy Woollatt (Member # 4890) on June 11, 2015, 04:12 PM:

Ah ok I see, I have been using the inching knob to look and see what exactly the pull down claw is doing. I see it moving but I can see no teeth or prongs protruding from it.. The film just seems to be running past continuously without being grabbed by it from what I can see. Terry - I guess if that's the case it is a lost cause as I can't get to that part. [Frown]

Barry - I thought it was the having the wrong sprockets feeding the film that caused the dents?
Thanks again to all [Smile]

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on June 11, 2015, 05:00 PM:

Duh. Didn't think of that Katy, but that would certainly cause the film piercing. Is there any way possible to post a pic of the claw?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 11, 2015, 05:43 PM:

OK,

It's time for wild guesses! (some days it's all you have...)

Were these dents on the same side of the film as the sprocket holes?

I just paid a visit to my son's machine. The best way to see the claw is dial the focus all the way out to open a gap behind the lens and shine a light in the gap. It operates inside a slot below the gate.

I also seem to remember on this one that if the lever "R"/"S" next to the gate isn't set for the right flavor of 8mm, the machine jittered like crazy.

Posted by Katy Woollatt (Member # 4890) on June 11, 2015, 06:18 PM:

I don't think I can get a pic of the claw, it's so hard to see as it is as I can only see it down the side where the ''S' and 'R' switch is.. And I can't get in there to feel anything as its moving either.
I will look at that piece of film and see what side those dents are on then and have a go at what you're suggesting with shining a light down there with moving the focus out.. It's late here and I'm not going to have a chance to look at it tomorrow annoyingly [Frown]

so I'll get back to you if that's ok if I see anything when I look at it?
When flicking between 'S' and 'R' while whichever type was running didn't seem to make it jitter at all it just made the projection size bigger. Could this be a sign there are no teeth on the claw?
I hope I didn't break it by feeding the wrong film into it first time [Frown]

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on June 11, 2015, 08:01 PM:

Take a piece of leader or other scrap film that is about 6 inches long. Place it in the gate with only about a half inch protruding below the gate. Sprocket holes towards you. The rest of it should be sticking straight out the top....no sprockets involved. Close the gate. Now turn the inching knob and watch the piece of film for any movement at all. If it moves a bit but does not pull down, move it up or down slightly with one hand while turning the inching knob with the other. If the claw is working, it should grab the piece of film and move it downward. If this is an auto loader, you may not be able to open the gate. If so, try to insert the film through the top of the gate while turning the inching knob.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on June 12, 2015, 02:41 AM:

Barry offers good advice. If you can't get in there to feel the claw then a strip of film will prove the point about whether the claw is operating correctly. Just make sure the pressure plate is fully closed when you do it.

Posted by Katy Woollatt (Member # 4890) on June 15, 2015, 10:25 AM:

Hi guys,

Well I've tried everything you suggested, I've put a piece of film just into the gate, avoiding the sprockets and turned the inching knob, but the film didn't move at all. I can see where the teeth are supposed to come out but there's nothing protruding out of the holes when the inching knob is turned. The piece of film I ran through on the wrong setting has dents on the side that the sprockets would have made. So I guess this part of the machine is broken [Frown]

gutted!
If this is an unfixable part of the machine I guess I'm back to square one, and have to buy another.
Really appreciate everyone's help though thanks very much :-) x

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 15, 2015, 11:25 AM:

It would be easier and cheaper probably to start again Katy.
There is currently a lovely little Yelco that looks like new on e bay UK. Has original box and modern electronic soft touch buttons for the transport mechanism and is a decent double sprocket design.

Comes with original box and all accessories and looks like new to me.

With a starting price of £35, it has to be worth a look.
Super 8mm only though, not dual guage.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 15, 2015, 12:31 PM:

Such a shame to have to walk away from that belt change, though!

(That's a lot of work!)

There is a lot to be said for having a spare parts donor. Otherwise you are always one failure away from being out of business.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 15, 2015, 12:32 PM:

Katy
As this is a dual gauge projector it is quite likely that it only has one claw (std 8 & sup 8 perforations are different size) and if that is broken off as it appears to be that's basically the end of your projector.
However, eBay has an identical projector on offer at the moment, although the seller does not seem to know much about it. It might be worth a bid.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yelco-P111Q-Standard- 8-Super-8-Cine-Projector-/321779577487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4aeb8eb28f

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 15, 2015, 01:00 PM:

Suggestion:

If you are going to stay with this type of machine I suggest you avoid P-111-B. Get P-111-Q (the one in the auction is the right one).

What's the difference?

Almost none, except the "B" uses a harder to find, more expensive, lower power, more fragile lamp.

The one in the "Q" is so common and cheap I buy 'em three at a time and keep a stash (for some of my other machines).

If my son's machine kicks the bucket and we decide we want to replace it with a clone, we are going the same route.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 15, 2015, 03:11 PM:

This is the one i was referring to Katy. Admittedly it needs a lamp but otherwise appears in very good condition. Starting price is £10 less than I remembered and so long as the guy does some basic checks for you before you would consider bidding, it appears to be a nice little machine in good, well looked after and little used condition.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261930080968?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageNam e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

This is one of the latest models built by any manufacturer and has some very nice features (1985)

Posted by Katy Woollatt (Member # 4890) on June 15, 2015, 08:33 PM:

Wow thanks guys but I actually thought of this,, asked a guy last week on eBay if I could buy his identical projector to mine without waiting for bidding to end.. so I could maybe take it apart to figure out how to fix mine.. Picked it up today! I see the claw there on this one, just has one broken belt (ahhhhh more belt changes! You know my pain Steve ;-) ) but otherwise seems in good working order. Glad I got the P-111Q then thanks for your advice. For a tenner too! But, if I have no joy I've got your suggestions in mind. I really wanted one that plays regular and super though Andrew as I have about 10 films made by my grandpa in the 70s and 80s that are both reg and super. He passed away 15 years ago so it will be great to see him again on film that's not been watched for 20+ years!! [Smile]

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