8mm Forum: Ever Notice That...

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Posted by Douglas Warren (Member # 1047) on July 02, 2015, 08:49 AM:

Ever notice that some films run better on one projector than another? I guess it boils down to the tolerances of each machine.If nothing else it gives us a reasonable excuse why we own so many projectors... [Wink]

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on July 02, 2015, 10:47 AM:

Yes. Some projectors seem to need film that is well-lubricated with Filmrenew or similar. I have found Elmos much more forgiving than Eumigs.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on July 02, 2015, 11:07 AM:

Thanks Douglas for giving me a good reason to tell the wife why I need to keep all my projectors. Ha.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 02, 2015, 11:56 AM:

I have three active sound machines.

-each of 'em has one film they play the best, and one they play the worst, and in some cases I can't figure out exactly why even though the results are dramatically different.

Makes life interesting!

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on July 02, 2015, 01:52 PM:

I have written to Steve Osborne and Doug Meltzer about my theories on this subject....and before the men in the white coats come to get me, I will write them here. Let collectors consider them carefully.

I've long believed that projectors are somehow sentient creatures with feelings and preferences and that they can cause great trouble when they are unhappy.

I've always run ST1200HD's in my booth at home, but six or so years ago I purchased my first GS1200. I placed the shiny new prize in the lineup of projectors in the booth, alongside the ST 1200Hd's. Within a day or two, things began happening. After running something on the GS, I would, of course, turn off the machine. The next day, however, I found the GS on again. Later, a plastic reel of a 400ft film I was running on the GS, came apart at the hub. Film everywhere.
I could have sworn that there was faint laughter from the two now neglected St1200Hd's. One night I decided to run a film on one of the ST's. Bulb would not come on. I moved the film to the other ST. Belt snapped, or so it seemed.

The last straw was coming to the booth one night to find my expensive GS perched up on the platform, hanging by only one back foot pad and the front pad. Another half inch and it would have been over the edge and fallen five feet down to the floor, its delicate workings unhinged beyond repair.
"Attempted suicide?", I thought. No. I think it was attempted murder by ST or ST's unknown.

I removed the GS from the booth that day. And strangely, the bulb on the one machine came on when I put a film on it to run, even though I had not changed the bulb. The other St started running properly again with nothing done to it.

They were happy again, all mechanical jealously seemingly melted away.

On the other hand, at this last Syracuse Cinefest I brought one of my other St1200's to the convention because I had promised to sell it to a 16mm collector friend who was delving into Super 8. I checked its operation at home before driving to Syracuse. It ran beautifully. However, in my room at the hotel as I was demonstrating the machine to the prospective buyer, it ran slow for the first two minutes of a 200ft reel and finally came up to speed. Obviously the man didn't want to buy it. So it came back home with me.
Why would a machine which worked perfectly 24 hours before suddenly act up like that? When I got home, I hooked it up again and IT RAN PERFECTLY........
Which brings me to the crux of this thread. Is it possible that certain projectors just don't enJOY certain movies? And that they do especially enjoy running certain other movies? Are lost loops, jumpy images and muffled sound tracks just their way of expressing their opinions about what they think is a bad movie?
These are questions best not asked aloud. Perhaps Stephen King knows the truth.
But I must stop now. The people from the "home" are here to collect me. My trusty friends, the projectors,seem somehow sad to see their old friend put away like an unwanted projector.
So be forewarned. If someone offers to sell you a projector from the estate of Gary Crawford in Virginia, USA, you might want to consider well your decision to buy. And I'd keep a closer eye on your own machines, as well. One never knows what they might be capable of.

Posted by Joe Vannicola (Member # 4156) on July 02, 2015, 02:20 PM:

A couple of my films run wobbly through the gate of my Kodak Pagent,yet I have no trouble when showing them on my B&H 285 or my Hokushin. Gary as far as your projector is concerned, I think it was so attached to you that it didn't want to go to another owner, so it acted up. You know,just like a child.lol [Big Grin]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 02, 2015, 02:36 PM:

I've found the Bauer's to have a very "stable temprement".
In fact they are the only machines I have ever owned where they will run any kind of film you care to throw at them and their behaviours never ever alters.

No other machine I have ever owned performs quite like them.
Even the Beaulieu complains a little at stretched old brittle acetate films. It runs them flawlessly but sounds a whole lot different then when running well lubed poly prints.

The Eumig 938 is also quite a stable handler of all types of film but the Bauer is something else! Nothing sounds any different than anything else, a true one off!

[ July 04, 2015, 03:19 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 02, 2015, 02:50 PM:

I've found the Bauer's to have a very "stable temprement".
In fact they are the only machines I have ever owned where they will run any kind of film you care to throw at them and their behaviours never ever alters.

No other machine I have ever owned performs quite like them.
Even the Beaulieu complains a little at stretched old brittle acetate films. It runs them flawlessly but sounds a whole lot different then when running well lubed poly prints.

The Eumig 938 is also quite a stable handler of all types of film but the Bauer is something else! Nothing sounds any different than anything else, a true one off!

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on July 02, 2015, 03:02 PM:

Andrew,

Tell me that again. [Big Grin]

quote:
C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat

"Will you stop that silly beat business and listen."

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 02, 2015, 03:19 PM:

Yeah everything is coming out duplicate at the moment ...weird?? Believe me, I'm only typing it all once!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 02, 2015, 03:28 PM:

Yeah everything is coming out duplicate at the moment ...weird?? Believe me, I'm only typing it all once!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on July 02, 2015, 03:44 PM:

Joseph
'Now tell me that again' - now that's a Oliver Hardy quote if ever I heard one!

Posted by Douglas Warren (Member # 1047) on July 02, 2015, 03:49 PM:

My Sankyo 600 detests my beloved copy of "Flight of the Phoenix."My Copal CP-402 dearly loves the print and runs it glitch free.The Sankyo also had some trouble running reel four of my copy of "Checkpoint." Either it was the footage itself or it's just not a fan of Stanley Baker. [Big Grin]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 02, 2015, 04:04 PM:

quote:
So be forewarned. If someone offers to sell you a projector from the estate of Gary Crawford in Virginia, USA, you might want to consider well your decision to buy.

Gary, too bad you did'nt tell me that when you sold me that Eumig 824 at cINESEA! [Big Grin]

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on July 02, 2015, 06:23 PM:

quote:
Joseph
'Now tell me that again' - now that's a Oliver Hardy quote if ever I heard one!

Yes -- that's from him. [Razz]

Posted by Richard C Patchett (Member # 974) on July 02, 2015, 10:12 PM:

Greetings
There human [Smile]

I had the same with the 2580 bell & howell
after replaceing the worm gear in both they were set to specs
They both ran the same. Replaced all belts lube etc even the feet. Still one was a little louder then the other I went over the projectors many of times
Found that one of the foot screws did not have a washer in the foot
Strange i put in the washer and both ran and sounded the same
I guess it was telling me that it was sick and needed a doctor
There like pets in there own way
Or is it like a woman ( Ill leave it there)
RC

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on July 03, 2015, 07:02 AM:

My Norisound 412 will auto-thread films with a Kodak leader perfectly OK, but needs help with straight film. It also prefers films that have been lubricated. No trouble of that sort with my Sankyo 301 or Eumig 710D.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 03, 2015, 08:01 AM:

I think every single machine would always benefit from films run through a cloth containing a suitable lubricant such as Filmguard.

The difference before and after on most machines is simply staggering!

I just wish I could post video footage on here just for people who have never had the benefit of owning one the above mentioned Bauer machines or even seeing one in action, just to show how unbelievably silent running these machines are as well as how totally unfussy with whatever they are fed!

I am sure there would be many converts and many new and old collectors with restored faith in collecting what are after all now, one off, never to be repeated, highly valuable prints in lots of cases.

Many machines nowadays just completely put you off paying very large sums for quality films as the enjoyment gained from projecting them just isn't always what it ought to be for one reason or another.

[ July 04, 2015, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on July 03, 2015, 08:03 AM:

Hi Brian. Its pretty much a case of choose the right projector for the job. When the Norisound range was introduced decades ago they were mainly aimed at keen amateur film makers and designed with a fast pull down claw, wide degree shutter, single claw pin and top choice of lens. Because of the fast pull down and claw design shrunken films with natural aging can jump. Although I have loved the Noris machines and do prefer for showing my own made films on them due to the image brightness, crisp sound quality and rear sprung gate thus helping to keep perfect focus a super 8 projector with a twin claw such as Elmo is a better choice for 24fps projection particularly with vintage acetate films. Nice to read you also have a Noris machine.

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on July 06, 2015, 02:43 PM:

Gary,
I loved reading your post. I think the first bit can be explained as sibling rivalry

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 06, 2015, 04:28 PM:

Bill Parsons has told me more than once,
"no two projectors are ever the same".
Pretty much like cars. [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 06, 2015, 04:35 PM:

In 8mm land, hundredths of a mm often make a noticeable difference on many parts of a mechanism. With this in mind, Bill's comment becomes highly relevant as a build up of tolerances in a mass produced product become extremely critical.

I think you stand a better chance with the few hand built machines as they are crafted in a way that allows error in tolerances to be spotted on assembly and corrected before leaving the factory.

Unfortunately only a slender few 8mm machines were hand built, notably Beaulieu and quite probably Fumeo.

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