8mm Forum: Telecine 'reflector frame' unit, gives ghosting image.

This is topic Telecine 'reflector frame' unit, gives ghosting image. in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Jenny Gilchrist (Member # 4949) on July 18, 2015, 02:40 AM:

I also have a question about the telecine setup Janice has as pictured in the Vignetting thread. http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006637;p=2 (I have the same telecine frame and the same projector.) However, I get a ghosting image when I project through the telecine.
This ghosting is only on one side of the figure or item, not a halo all the way around, it's really only obvious in the contrasty bits. The projection goes onto the mirror, reflects at 45 degrees, and out through the 'screen', it's the screen that has the ghosting (almost a double) image. Easier to see on brighter figures like a white t shirt or skin against dark background, and always a ghosting to the right of the figure. Any ideas? First I thought it was 'line up' of the mirror/screen or projector, but definitely not, no matter where I move it (and it's supposed to be perfectly aligned on the marked 'mat') the ghosting is still there.

I have another telecine unit, an old one, that I haven't used yet, which is different to the formerly mentioned one.
This one, you project onto the screen, and it reflects out through a lens at which you point the camera. I only mention this because it seems the opposite to the frame I've been using.

So far, my transfers look best if I simply shoot at the wall, and video the projection off the wall. I really wanted the cheap unit, as above, to work. But can't abide the ghosting. Any ideas anyone?

Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on July 18, 2015, 03:05 AM:

"So far, my transfers look best if I simply shoot at the wall, and video the projection off the wall. I really wanted the cheap unit, as above, to work. But can't abide the ghosting. Any ideas anyone?"

Jenny, the above says it all! NONE of the "reflective telecine units" will give you better than the "off the wall" method. Trust me..... I have spent many years trying everything and, at the stage you are in that process, you have come to that conclusion already. Don't waste your time with those units.(Janice's illustrated setup is from 2011.... I'm sure she will concur).

But.... if you are truly "off the wall", modify that by using an A4 sheet of quality copy paper instead of the "wall" and fill as much of it as possible with the picture.

Good luck!

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on July 18, 2015, 03:11 AM:

I think the ghosting is due to it using a rear-silvered mirror, the ghosting coming from extra light reflected by the glass not the silvering. The only real way to eliminate it completely is to use a front silvered one, which I believe would be too expensive.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on July 18, 2015, 03:55 AM:

I was going to make the same comment Brian. The mirror and ground glass I use has a front surface mirror. If the mirror is just a standard mirror the mirror coating is on the back of the glass. You will have an image reflection that is offset by the depth of the mirror glass. This is the ghosting image you see. I do not have any problem with ghosting images with my setup. I paid about $90 for my mirror and ground glass unit and I've gotten excellent results.

I've also used the projecting to the paper on the wall technique and if you are happy with that quality, then that might be the way to go for you Jenny.

[ July 18, 2015, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on July 18, 2015, 08:57 AM:

Hi Jenny,

I`ve sent a PM to you.
James.

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on July 18, 2015, 12:55 PM:

The wall method will work very well. Make certain the paper you use has a brightness rating of 96 or so. That number should be on ream of paper wrapping. The image should be small, about six inches. Room should be as dark as possible.

Posted by Narendra Singh (Member # 4945) on July 19, 2015, 07:50 AM:

Janice Glesser Wrote:

quote:

The mirror and ground glass I use has a front surface mirror. If the mirror is just a standard mirror the mirror coating is on the back of the glass. You will have an image reflection that is offset by the depth of the mirror glass. This is the ghosting image you see.

Thank you for explaining the cause of 'Ghosting Image' Janice.

There is so much to learn on this forum.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 19, 2015, 09:35 AM:

Janice has a wealth of knowledge on many aspects of the hobby. Luckily for all Sankyo, Elmo ST owners and 16mm owners, she happily shares everything she knows for the benefit of others!

We are very lucky to have her here Narendra [Smile]

Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on July 19, 2015, 09:41 AM:

I second that.

Posted by Narendra Singh (Member # 4945) on July 19, 2015, 09:54 AM:

Yes, I fully agree with you Andrew. Janice, with her utmost devotion towards the hobby, is a great asset for the 8mm Forum and all of us.

THANK YOU Janice for your time and efforts.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 19, 2015, 10:43 AM:

Janice has a gift for projectors maintenance.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on July 19, 2015, 10:56 AM:

First off Jenny...If you have the exact same telecine unit as I have then you should not be getting a double image. That's of course if the mirror is a front surface mirror and hasn't been replaced with a cheaper standard mirror. Do you see the ghosting in the ground glass or are you seeing it in the captured image?

Ghosting is a double image. This can also be caused by improper exposure or camera recording speed. If the camera speed is not in sync with the 3-bladed shutter you will get a blending of frames in your digital capture. If you could post a picture of your setup and another pic directly off the ground glass this might help us further analyze the problem.

Secondly...Thanks guys for the kind words. I try [Smile]

These old projectors are growing older just like the rest of us and if I can help keep one in working condition...it's worth my time. However, I see this as a team effort and I'm glad to be a part of the team [Smile]

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