8mm Forum: How should fim be wound onto the reel?

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Posted by Alex Fitton (Member # 5089) on November 02, 2015, 07:21 PM:

Hi everyone new member and first timer poster here!

I have a question about how film should correctly be spooled onto the reel.
I have some standard 8 home movies which I think have been wound the wrong way round the reel. When loaded on the projector with the sprocket holes facing out (closest to me) the film comes off the back of the reel instead of the front. The film as far as I can tell plays fine not in reverse or upside down.
When the film is rewound off the take up spool it is now the correct way (if it is correct) round.
The projector I'm using is a Silma S101 dual and the last projector I think these films were last played on a Eumig P8 if that makes any difference.

Thanks

Alex

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on November 02, 2015, 10:45 PM:

The film should feed off the top of the reel with the sprocket holes on the left.

Posted by Alex Fitton (Member # 5089) on November 03, 2015, 02:32 AM:

Thanks Janice!

Is there any reason for the film to be wound the other way round? I checked all 20+ reels last night and they are all wound the wrong way.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on November 03, 2015, 02:56 AM:

Could it just mean the film needs rewinding but has a leader both ends?

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on November 03, 2015, 03:15 AM:

Welcome Alex. Another film gauge (size) was 9.5mm and the silent films were wound the way your Standard 8mm one is. I am guessing the owner of your own films was previously a 9.5mm film enthusiast which usually accounts for this way of winding.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on November 03, 2015, 04:05 AM:

As Lee says it's probably the way the previous owner used to spool 9.5mm films,as a collector of all film gauges except 35mm I occasionally get 9.5mm films spooled the way 8mm should, so after viewing them I simply rewind them the right way.
I think I'm right in saying that no damage comes to the film as it will only feed through the filmgate the right way [Smile]

Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on November 03, 2015, 04:17 AM:

Hi, without doubt these films were used on a P8 or some other Eumig model. You will need a rewinder, then rewind the film, you then need to rewind the film back onto the original reel but change the film around so the emulsion side faces you.
but be aware the film now wants to jump off the reel, until it gets used to being reversed.
James.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on November 03, 2015, 05:29 AM:

Yes
Obviously used on a Eumig P.8 on which the film came off the back of the feed spool.

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on November 03, 2015, 07:07 AM:

This happened to me very recently for the first time...It was my popeye Demaio print, super 8 colour/sound.
It was hillarious, because i somehow managed to get it to run when first viewing, but it was reeled wrong...It wasn't simply needing rewinding, as i tried that, but it was actually backwards and reversed... It took a bit of a think, but i figured it out and got it looking like Janice's pic above!
My guess is someone removed the film from the original reel, stored it, and then put in back on a cheap reel when they sold it, and it came wound all wonky..
Cheers,
Matt

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on November 03, 2015, 03:24 PM:

Like Mathew I have had a film on the reel upside down and backwards! The first time it happened I really had to sit and think about it,I think it was trial and error to correct it [Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 03, 2015, 04:07 PM:

I've had this happen to me a couple of times, then I go through this complicated sequence of steps only to wind up with the film exactly as it was when I started!

-it's like something straight out of Laurel and Hardy!

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on November 03, 2015, 05:27 PM:

Steve, I have had the same happen to me. I am getting better at solving it as I come across it lately but it's kind of funny when you move the film around on different reels and it's still upside and backwards!

Good luck Alex!

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 03, 2015, 06:39 PM:

I guess you have four possibilities: (with the film leaving the reel on the side you are facing)

1)sprockets on the left, emulsion out, stripe in (frames upside down)
2)sprockets on the left, base out, stripe out (frames right side up)
3)sprockets on the right, base out, stripe out (frames upside down)
4)sprockets on the right, emulsion out, stripe in (frames right side up) **

and only when you get:
-sprockets on the left, emulsion out, stripe in (frames upside down)

-are you ready to project the film...

(See?.....Simple!....not!)

**4)is ready for normal rewinding. 2) and 3) shouldn't ever happen!

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 3812) on November 03, 2015, 07:21 PM:

What Janice said is correct.
If you get reels wound incorrectly is best to rewind either via a bench type rewind setup so that the start of the film pulls off the front of the reel with sprocket holes outermost.
If no rewinds available do it on the projector by putting the reel on the feed arm with the film coming off the front & then of course the sprocket holes are then on the inside edge.
Put a half twist in the film and engage that into the takeup reel & switch the projector ON to FORWARD and the takeup will slowly wind the film thru.
Once all on the takeup reel then simply do a normal rewind & the film will then be on the feed spool the correct way around.

The reason the film pretty much always comes off the front of the reel is that on machines which provide a rewind function the makers use the gear to provide that facility to apply back tension to the feed spool when projecting a reel so that the film comes off the feed spool smoothly.
On many machines if the film is set to come off the rear of the spool there is then no drag to stabilise the payout of the film & then it often over runs & spills film everywhere which will lead to damage if not immediately corrected.

Some of the 16mm Eiki's (Elf) would really shoot film all over the place if one tried to project a film with it feeding from the rear as do many of the Std 8 & Super 8 machines.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on November 04, 2015, 02:38 AM:

Here is the explanation of reverse sided films which have been shown on a Eumig P8. I am quoting from the instruction book for the Eumig P8 Phonomatic Novo.

"NOTE: Films that have just come back from processing will usually wind off as shown in Sketch I on their first run through the projector. In this particular case, reverse projection, described on Page 14, is impossible as the film would not be wound onto the take-up spool. Only when the film has been run through once normally and subsequently rewound will it come off the spool in such a way (see Sketch II) that reverse projection is possible.

After the film has hitched automatically at the take-up spool, turn the lever C fully to the left (Fig.13). This locks the film transport and frees the loops which have been formed by the automatic threader."

It's quite strange that Eumig decided to change the direction of the spools on these models contrary to accepted practice over many years.

I must also point out that the model described was the last in the P8 range and featured automatic threading direct onto the take-up spool. It was a standard 8 model.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on November 04, 2015, 09:28 AM:

above all, wind it loosely, not tight - You'll see why after a few months if you do

Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on November 04, 2015, 10:12 AM:

Hi Joe,

Tell us why? it`s a bit late for me, does it stretch the film?
crack the emulsion?
James.

Posted by Alex Fitton (Member # 5089) on November 04, 2015, 01:38 PM:

Definitely was the Eumig I got it out to check last night. Strange they would choose to do it that way. I guess I had never noticed before because I've always used the Eumig for the standard 8 films.

I got one film successfully back on to the reel the right way round by playing the film forward outside the machine (Silma). Then rewinding it back onto the original reel. I put a little pressure on the reel so as not to wind it too tightly.

Plays fine now not back to front or upside down.

I'll an eye on this one for a little while to see how it takes to being rewound the other way before doing any of the others.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on November 04, 2015, 03:18 PM:

This is a Eumig P8 ready to run.
http://www.marriottworld.com/pieces/pictures/p8autonovo01.JPG

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on November 04, 2015, 11:39 PM:

Well the Eumig P8 has been removed from my want list. That is strange that they feed the film that way. I have a few regular 8 projectors I use and thankfully they all feed the same way. I never realized these operated that way.

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on November 06, 2015, 09:02 AM:

I have found that film would tightly will eventually dry (brittle) and likely break easier than not - Keep it aired, cleaned and loose, you'll be glad you did - Shorty

Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on November 06, 2015, 09:53 AM:

Hi,

Many thanks Joe.

James.

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