8mm Forum: Seeking Sound Advice on a Sankyo Sound 762

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Posted by Ronnie Lane (Member # 4714) on January 02, 2016, 05:28 PM:

Just grabbed a Sankyo Sound 762 on eBbay for $80, and I figured I'd ask here before reporting any issues- what would make a Sankyo of this model not able to play sound? It has one other issue, tendency of the image to wander in and out of focus but the main issue I'd like to resolve the ease of repair first is its ability to play sound- the reason I bought the thing. It projects film fine, runs through well, projects alright aside the occasional focus shift, but the thing doesn't seem to read sound at all. The speaker makes a hum, so it's operational, and the same happens when I plug in a new one- my question I guess is what would be wrong?

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on January 02, 2016, 06:42 PM:

May not be the projector...Have you tried running different sound films? If not...could be an erased sound track (...this has happened to me [Smile]

)

Posted by Ronnie Lane (Member # 4714) on January 02, 2016, 06:52 PM:

Tried two films, both have the same issue from the thing- they play but no sound. Trying to select 1 or 2 track gets me nothing, 1+2 gets me a static noise. Tried running output to an external projector, similar results. The two films came from different sellers, different places and one was clearly marked SOUND on the can so I can only assume it's something with the projector. The external output gets me white noise silence. (The films were a Ken Films color/sound Star Wars digest, and the rare Muppet Movie digest from the UK.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 02, 2016, 06:56 PM:

There's the old trick of working all the sound switches to try to break oxides, but since there is hum there's something else you can try here. (Eh! Work the switches anyway...)

It actually helps to be married! (Seriously...)

Turn the volume all the way up and move your wedding ring closer and further away from the sound head. This distorts the magnetic fields around the head and if the head is talking to the amp and the amp is amplifying, the hum should noticeably change.

(Any kind of ring works, but I'm not a big jewelry guy and it's what I have to work with!)

Posted by Ronnie Lane (Member # 4714) on January 02, 2016, 07:03 PM:

Tested the ring experiment with my key ring, got some results. The hum went up and down as I went.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 02, 2016, 07:09 PM:

That's good!

This may have just gone from en electronic problem to a mechanical one.

Is there some mechanism pressing the sound stripe down onto the head? Without direct contact the head can't read the stripe.

Posted by Ronnie Lane (Member # 4714) on January 02, 2016, 07:22 PM:

There is a mechanism, but it seems to be engaging when I crank to sound. The head mechanism does move up and I don't think there's farther for it to go- the dial feels sturdy and the head assembly does click into position. I can shift it a little bit up with a finger, but I tried that with film running and got no result.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 03, 2016, 11:19 AM:

Isn't this machine optical sound too? Your films should have magnetic sound instead. Try switching from OPT to MAG if this is the case.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on January 03, 2016, 01:20 PM:

According to the old Super8 database. The Sankyo 762 is mag only.

marketed in 1977-78
super 8 mm film
lens: Sankyo Zoom f: 1.4 \ F: 15-25 mm
lamp: 80 W, 30 V, ELB
reel capacity: 180 m
projection: forward, reverse
projection speed: 18, 24 fps, by selector switch
film loading: automatic threading
sound: magnetic playback on both sound tracks
sound mode: mono, duo
amplifier: ?
amplifier output: 4 W (8 Ohm)
recording: magnetic on both tracks, sound-on-sound
recording level control: auto and manual
VU meter: yes
input terminal: Microphone, Line-in
input jacks: 3.5 mm diameter jack
output terminal: Monitor, Line-out, External Speaker (4 W, 8 Ohm)
output jack: Monitor, Line-out: 3.5 mm diameter jack; Ext Sp: 6.5 mm diameter jack
built-in speaker: yes
motor: magnetic motor
power source: V AC, 50/60 Hz
weight: circa 8,000 g
dimensions: 190 x 224 x 324 mm
made in Japan by Sankyo

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 03, 2016, 01:51 PM:

I can't think of any Sankyo machine that had the optical sound facility, come to think of it?

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on January 03, 2016, 02:14 PM:

Sometimes sound disappears on a projector that has not been in use for a while then it comes back and you never understand what happened. At least, that happened with me :-)

Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on January 03, 2016, 02:27 PM:

Does he amp hum get louder with volume turned up? Could it be a volume control issue?

Posted by Ronnie Lane (Member # 4714) on January 03, 2016, 03:23 PM:

This is mag as are my films, and the hum does get louder depending where I have the volume. That's part of how I determined the speakers were in fact working. (It does disappear entirely when sound is off.) Mostly what I'm fishing for infor for is to decide if I keep or attempt a return for my cash, particularly as the listing described it as 'working perfectly'.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on January 03, 2016, 04:14 PM:

Ronnie...if you have the option to return it, then if it were me...I would send it back. Have you alerted the seller about this issue? Resolving sound problems can range from removing a little corrosion from sockets to replacing sound board components. You thought you were buying a "working" sound projector...and this is not. [Frown]

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 04, 2016, 07:53 AM:

Andrew, there were some Sankyo machines (probably for the local market) which had optical soun facility.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 04, 2016, 07:58 AM:

Oh ok Maurizio. I've just never seen one here in the UK.

It would be interesting to see a photo of some of these as they tended to use DC motors and electronic control circuitry.

I'd be interested in finding one if a 800ft double sprocket version with DC motor control existed.

It would certainly help cure the Wow issues so often associated with optical sound on Super 8mm.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 04, 2016, 10:01 AM:

Sankyo made optical sound models, the number was proceeded by OMS. I believe there were six models.
http://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/ra170/users/8/4/6/7/atsushi5245-img600x450-1451637470x4uwo319990.jpg

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 04, 2016, 10:17 AM:

Thanks for that Maurice, very interesting. I can honestly say I have never ever seen one of these six models advertised for sale. I shall look out for them now thanks.

It would be interesting to see what the highest model featuring optical sound was.

Was there a 800 OMS for example?

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 04, 2016, 11:24 AM:

Top of the range was the OMS-880ST. This was mag/opt, 800ft, 150w 15v lamp, mono/duo/stereo.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 04, 2016, 01:25 PM:

Wow,thanks for that Maurice. I will keep a watch out then. I haven't seen anything like this up until now, but you never know.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 05, 2016, 01:07 PM:

Andrew, all Sankyo Sound machines, regardless of being MAG only or OPT too, have electronically controlled DC motors.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 05, 2016, 03:42 PM:

Indeed Maurizio, but it's finding an optical machine, dual sprocketed, 800ft capacity minimum and D.C. electronically controlled that interests me.

For magnetic, I'm more than "boxed off".
For optical, there really are not too many choices that fit this criteria.

The model Maurice pointed out would have been ideal had it have made European soil. Unfortunately only in Japan it would seem.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on January 05, 2016, 03:51 PM:

Janice, did you make a copy of the database ?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 05, 2016, 03:57 PM:

Hope she did Dom. Sure wish I had now! [Frown]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on January 05, 2016, 06:09 PM:

Unfortunately guys...I didn't make a copy [Frown]

. Anytime I find a description on Ebay from the Super8 database, I copy it and save it.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 05, 2016, 06:36 PM:

Keep going Janice! I for one, am truly gutted I did not do what traditionally, i never fail to do...archive important information to me!!

I just thought it'd be there forever! How wrong was I?? [Confused]

Posted by Ronnie Lane (Member # 4714) on January 07, 2016, 07:06 PM:

Well, thought I'd drop an update. Seller offered partial refund [a refund less shipping] because they didn't want the thing back. I accepted, figuring I could probably figure this out with help. Anything anyone can volunteer further, I'd love to hear. (At the least, this gets more reel capacity than my dualux.)

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on January 07, 2016, 10:51 PM:

When working with older 16mm amps, no sound and only a hum through the speakers usually indicated bad electrolytic capacitors. I don't know if the Sankyo has them, but if it does, that could be the problem.

Posted by frank arnstein (Member # 330) on January 08, 2016, 04:12 AM:

Hi Ronnie,

When testing your 762 sankyo for sound operation and using a sound film, did you happen to use a stereo sound film or just a mono sound film?

If not, see what happens when you play a 2 track stereo film and try playing just track 2, the balance track, and see if that produces any sound.

The projector may have a problem with the main track magnetic head pickup or associated wiring, but the amplifier could be fine if it reads and plays the contents on track 2 OK.

This has recently happened to me with a Sankyo 702 that I bought on ebay. When I played a mono sound film to test it out, I got no sound from it at all. There was a speaker hum audible but not any of the recorded sound.... a bit like yours Ronnie.

When I tried a playing a stereo film, whilst there was still no sound read from track 1, I was surprised that it played good sound from the balance track or track 2.

So I presume the main magnetic head is faulty or somewhere wiring to the main board while the balance track magnetic head is OK. I am trying to fix this but had no luck yet after many weeks.

dogtor frankarnstein

[Smile]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 08, 2016, 05:45 AM:

You can still find the old Super 8 Database here:-
http://web.archive.org/web/20150327100229/http://www.super8data.com/
Unfortunately the photographs of the projectors are missing.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 08, 2016, 02:37 PM:

Yes,that is very good thanks Maurice. Maybe the owners of these machines can post their photos alongside the data so we can recreate as many pages as possible from this fine historical web site.

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on January 08, 2016, 03:57 PM:

Hi Andrew:
How would somebody go about posting a picture to that website? I would do it if I knew how.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 08, 2016, 04:39 PM:

No Barry, that can't happen.
What I was meaning is we copy and paste the info that has been documented within the S8data web pages, place it onto a page in "word" or similar,
Then add your own photo and collectively, we could begin then to compile our own new Super 8 Database.

This information has taken an age to compile originally, it'd be such a shame for us all, to let it go to waste.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on January 08, 2016, 04:42 PM:

Barry...It's not an active site...it's only a snapshot of the old site from a previous time. Photo URL's are broken since this site has new owners.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on January 08, 2016, 04:44 PM:

The link is not working for me.

Posted by Ronnie Lane (Member # 4714) on January 08, 2016, 05:00 PM:

Track changing doesn't really change anything, though I get considerable white noise on combined. Trying other things, my projector finally made a noise that wasn't white noise. Got it on phone, posting to my Youtube. Hopefully someone can help diagnose from it.

https://youtu.be/Crj7gOWubys

Posted by Terrance Kott (Member # 5777) on February 03, 2017, 09:53 PM:

I have a Sankyo 762. If you need an extra manual let me know. I have two. As you can see in the pictures--it is magnetic. I am currently waiting for a power chord to be sent to me that I just bought. I have not used this since at least the 1990s.

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