8mm Forum: Filmguard

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Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on June 24, 2016, 07:07 PM:

In the past, to clean films, I've mounted reels on the arms of my editor and hand-cranked the film onto an empty spool. Whilst doing this, I sandwiched the film using a cloth with a strip of whichever witch's brew I was using so that both sides were treated. Given the good reviews of Filmguard, I finally got hold of some. At first, I used the same method but quickly found that a little goes a long way. I had to run the film through again to wipe off the surplus. I ended up by dipping a soft artist's brush with few bristles into the fluid and then brushing it on to both sides of the film between the reels on the editor. I then sandwiched the film using a cotton cloth and hand-cranked the film from one reel to another, repeating the application of the fluid every 100' or so. I thought that the films were reasonably clean before but the cloth was soiled every time after using Filmguard. Picture quality looks good and the projector ran like a dream. Am I applying too little or too much using the brush? How often should Filmguard be used?

Posted by Daniel Macarone (Member # 5102) on June 24, 2016, 08:18 PM:

Hi Will, I've used the same method as you, which I'm sure is a standard practice. I always love to see nice, clean picture when I'm done and the sound can even be cleaner, too. Still, I'm relatively new to the hobby and I'd like to hear how much cleaning the more experienced people would recommend. I tend to leave the film guard on after one pass and not wipe it off. Is this leaving an excessive amount on and should the print be ventilated after cleaning?

Posted by Ty Reynolds (Member # 5117) on June 24, 2016, 11:15 PM:

I use the same method to apply. I found that not wiping the excess off results in what looks like water marks on the projected image. They will eventually disappear, but Filmguard has a very slow evaporation rate.

Posted by Phil Slater (Member # 2388) on June 25, 2016, 05:50 AM:

I always wipe off the excess with a tissue, and then leave the film out of it's box for a day or so. If a film has tape splices within it, I always give these areas a careful drying with tissue as filmguard softens splices and if you leave too much filmguard on they can fail on projection, as I found out while giving a show to friends once.

Posted by Phil Slater (Member # 2388) on June 25, 2016, 05:53 AM:

I always wipe off the excess with a tissue, and then leave the film out of it's box for a day or so. If a film has tape splices within it, I always give these areas a careful drying with tissue as filmguard softens splices and if you leave too much filmguard on they can fail on projection, as I found out while giving a show to friends once.

Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on June 25, 2016, 06:00 AM:

Hi,

why not use Cresclean Film Cleaner?
I do and there is a lot less messing about.
You can get it here
http://www.classichomecinema.co.uk/
Regards,
James.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 25, 2016, 05:01 PM:

If you've used Filmguard James, you'll know only too well whatever slight negativity you can level towards the product, you'll know also is soon more than overtaken by its superb and superior cleaning and lubricating qualities that make any problematic print run like a dream through the gate.

Tape splices can be an issue with FG, but a CIR created splice using Jackro tape soon puts and end to any issues with spices softening and becoming detached in the gate.

Used in this trio, the product cannot beaten I'd say and is extremely gentle on vulnerable pasted striped film as a bonus.

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on June 29, 2016, 06:33 PM:

Thanks for the comments all. It seems that my method of applying Filmguard with a fine brush every 100 ft of film is ok but how often should it be applied? Andrew, you refer to Filmguard softening splices. Do you mean cement splices?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 29, 2016, 07:11 PM:

No will, not cement, there is absolutely no point in pursuing that avenue nowadays seeing as the vast majority of low fade are on Ester.

No will, i was referring to the standard splice tapes that can be purchased from e bay and the likes that are 4 frames wide, and still work perfectly fine with splicers such as the Agfa FS 8 and the likes.

They work fine but they can be weakened very easily by the use of Filmguard on our films.

In this instance, I've found that decent C.I.R. tape works far better and has a far superior adhesive strength than the pre formed tape splices that fit the remainder of our tape splicers on the market, that's all.

Even then, as always, you really need to use a roller on the finished splice at considerable pressure to gain a fully professional splice through the gate I've found.

Once the technique has been mastered however, you need not never re visit a splice ever again though I've found!

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on June 29, 2016, 08:21 PM:

Thanks, Andrew. My main interest is in family films which use cement splices. I have some commercial prints with the splices you describe so I may need to do some work in the future. How often do you think Filmguard should be applied?

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 03, 2016, 02:25 AM:

I also use FG, have to say i learned not to apply too much etc via this forum, we were getting pooling and streaks.
We also use the 4 frame splice tape.(& have done for over 30 years), but, just to add a note here, we cut the four frame splices in half so they cover only two frames, so far we have only had two come apart due to the film guard,(in our early days of use), but this was only because we were applying too much, once i apply it now we now reverse clean using a clean dry 100% cotton white handkerchief, (i find these the best for cleaning films),i only apply the very slightest of pressure and this takes off the excess perfectly as well as evening out the whole application perfectly.
On the subject of splices, we bought the Fuji splicer brand new from Reel image, the one that works the same way as the CIR but have to say i find the quick splice tapes so much easier, i guess its what you get use to. [Wink]

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on July 03, 2016, 05:02 PM:

Good post, Tom. Thanks.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 04, 2016, 04:15 PM:

Thanks Will, by the way, i am sure you already know this, but if you are going to do any joining of reels or splice at all any film try and do it before applying any film cleaner. In my case where i do have to splice a film cleaned with this or any cleaner it is important to ensure the two joins have any fluids removed & are fully dry, otherwise any splice will either not stick fast or fall apart on projection. [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 04, 2016, 04:23 PM:

Very true Tom, very true! [Smile]

Posted by Martin Dew (Member # 5748) on June 12, 2017, 05:40 AM:

I've started to find that a second application of FilmGuard has an even more deep-cleansing effect on my Super 8 and 16mm films than just one. Clean number two seems to get right into the nooks and crannies, and even has a pretty good shot at mitigating enamel damage.

Has anyone else experienced what appear to be highly beneficial results of a second clean?

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 12, 2017, 07:08 AM:

I bought a bottle 13 years ago and having cleaned my entire collection it is still more than half full.

Really good product.

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on June 12, 2017, 12:54 PM:

Rob

13 years ago. Either you have a very large can or very small collection

Mike

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 12, 2017, 01:49 PM:

Martin, i have often had to give films i buy second hand a second clean. I tend to clean them on rewind arms one way, then, upon rewinding give them a second clean, (using a little less cleaner). This is something that Roger Lilly always showed me when he ran movieland international here in Plymouth.
If its really still coming off bad, (example image attached), i will give it a third clean, then, remove the excess cleaner with a clean 100% cotton Handkerchief. This final removal of excess seems to spread the cleaner through the film nice and evenly, & you will be surprised what still comes off on dirty films.
The attached images are from a First then second application, the third image is the excess removal still showing dirt.

BTW, my films do not ever get this problem, this is a film before any showing. God knows what the black is, and yes i do turn the cloth frequently otherwise one could end up scratching the film. [Wink]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 12, 2017, 02:54 PM:

Be careful. The brown looks like magnetic oxide.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 12, 2017, 03:59 PM:

well Maurice, thats the weird thing, this was a pre striped stock film, not that awful Derann Oxide track.

Posted by Martin Dew (Member # 5748) on June 12, 2017, 04:08 PM:

Thanks, Tom. Yes, I clean in a similar manner, and keep swapping over cloths every 2 - 300ft, or when they get discoloured.

Maurice, I don't think there's any protection against some oxide coming off on the cloth, is there? 2.22 used to do that too but I've never registered any audio degradation on any of my stripes.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 12, 2017, 04:19 PM:

I have viewed this particular print and fortunately everythings good. [Wink]

Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on June 12, 2017, 05:46 PM:

Does anyone else use Filmrenu? I find that product works very well.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 13, 2017, 12:37 PM:

BTW. I still use the 4 frame splicing tapes but for over 20 years we cut them in half to cover only 2 frames. It has worked perfectly for us all these years. My splices are fine and even with filmguard i have only had two or three fail in those years and with well over 400 titles i call that pretty good. The splicing tapes obviously last twice as long and with only two frames covered there almost as good as any cir or fugi splices ive come across.
I am joing a feature film this week and will post up some images to show you.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 13, 2017, 12:52 PM:

Mike, very large film collection & very large bottle purchased from Jack Roe those many years ago.

Seriously, a little Filmguard goes a very long way with super 8, in fact over applying it is not a good idea, although it won't do any harm it can cause steaking on projection (which will clear on it's own after a few runs - it is designed for commercial cinema) and possible sound wow with slippage over the sound capstan.

Restrained application and then a dry re-clean as Tom suggests only gives positive results.

Most films I've never had to re-clean.

Filmguard is safe with professional magnetic stripe, although as the quality of various super 8 striping has varied over the years, occasionally I get some brown oxide on the cloth like Tom.

As long as you're sensible, it has never made any difference to the sound track quality and isn't particularly cause for any real concern.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 13, 2017, 12:55 PM:

Agre there rob. I rember applying 222 years ago to our copy of hannie caulder.you should have seen the two pure red stripe colours coming off.i thought i killed the film but 25 years on the same copy sounds as good now as it did then. It was just filthy.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 13, 2017, 12:59 PM:

Yes, I've had the same sort of thing Tom and no harm was done, except that the film ran better. [Smile]

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on June 13, 2017, 02:09 PM:

I often get a brown oxide residue on the cloth when using film guard. it does not seem to effect the sound.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 14, 2017, 03:24 AM:

When you consider the length of the film and the thickness of the oxide (some reels I've got have length marking different for sound and silent films) the amount on the cloth shown is nothing compared to what is on the film. Nothing to worry about.

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