8mm Forum: External speaker question

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Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on January 18, 2017, 09:21 AM:

External jacks are normally 8 ohms. What contemporary speaker would work? Being that projector external speakers are no longer manufactured, would computer speakers be acceptable?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 09:26 AM:

Anything also labeled 8 Ohms would work fine, as long as the power rating is at least as high as the projector audio power capability.

This is a nice number: 8 Ohms is the most common impedance around.

Beware the temptation to put two 8 ohm speakers in parallel: your 8 ohms now becomes 4 and pretty soon your projector's amplifier output stage will become a crime scene! (...the crime being "arson"!)

I think the typical computer speaker has it's own amplifier and isn't meant to be driven by the already amplified speaker output of a projector. There are often line level "aux" outputs that should do the job. (You will need adapters...)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 18, 2017, 10:06 AM:

You use the word contemporary there Brad.

That's exactly it!
Try to find speaker cabinets made around the era your projector was manufactured in really.

Many modern day tremendous loudspeaker systems do not respond well to these old signals. Far too much frequency response for our old analogue signals and certainly for any snap crackle or pop!

You can easily do much damage to decent modern speaker systems and HC Amplifiers alike.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 10:35 AM:

Other than Rice Crispies I've never had snap, crackle and pop.

Is this a common problem with your machines?

Truth be told, a modern speaker is a little too sensitive for old movie tracks, there is this frequency response called the Academy Curve to remove all the nasties that a modern speaker doesn't care about at all. Their feeuency response is usually better than a lot of the ears that are listening!

-but, this would still sound better than the little speaker inside the machine, and it's also the chance to have the sound come out by the screen where it's supposed to be.

It's a step up. After that you start to use an external amp and some sort of equalizer to clean up the sound. Eventually you have a sound system NASA would envy.

-still have to start somewhere. You won't get there just hooking up a speaker, but by the same token you will never get anywhere just running on the internal.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 18, 2017, 10:38 AM:

If you've ever projected an optical soundtrack film, you will be all too familiar with Snap, Crackle or Pop Steve! [Big Grin]

Newer speakers faithfully reproduce sounds well beyond what the old ones did.
This is to great advantage when fed a noiseless digital source, but great detriment when fed a relatively crude analogue signal.

Old speakers still sound amazingly good though it has to be said, with either vintage hi fi or our films soundtracks.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 10:41 AM:

Haven't had that pleasure so far.

My next step is connecting a video projector into a spare mixer channel.

-onward and upward...

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 18, 2017, 10:43 AM:

Surely you must have at least one Optical print Steve????

Even this wouldn't sound great through a pair of B&W's

https://vimeo.com/189454740

Not a lot wrong with this though I'd say for S8 Mag snd.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 10:48 AM:

Nope.

I am strictly magnetic sound. I've very rarely run into a must-have print that was optical, so I've avoided going that way.

I would imagine if I did, my mixer would clip the cereal sounds and protect the rest of the system, no?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 18, 2017, 10:51 AM:

You do surprise me Steve, especially as a devout ST1200 man.

to be fair, there has been some great titles out there on the optical track that sadly never made it onto Magnetic.

Especially if you like your 80's films.

I'm currently reinvesting in the necessary hardware just for my optical film collection. This is despite the fact that most are now showing just a little fade at the very least.

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on January 18, 2017, 11:05 AM:

Funny I always stuck to magnetic as well. The only optical I had was Little Shop of Horrors that a fellow collector had already striped and re recorded. The only other titles that tempted me were Remo Pale a Rider and Woman in Red. Sound was always a big issue with optical prints. You might have been able to get them for £60 or £70 from Derann at the time but some were good but a lot were total duds and there was no way of knowing until you projected all the way through.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 18, 2017, 11:15 AM:

They arn't as bad as all that Mike. Just a little more noise than you'd ordinarily like as a result of the methods used to get to the sound to amplification stages.

A little less low frequency range also, but you can compensate for this with equalization.

I'm hoping the SH 30 fairs much better in this dept for both sound quality as well as Wow & flutter.

In theory, it should do as it is an electronic driven m/c with pulse sync capabilities. Kind on film too I believe, which always helps. [Wink]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 11:21 AM:

It just the case of making a leap.

Every so often I've run into a film on a sale list I'd really like that is optical, and I ask myself "Is it worth buying an entire projector to watch this film?" and I answer "no." and move on.

I'm not very big on features either: I have maybe 20 in a collection of 300+ titles. I would imagine this is where you'd find the most optical prints, right?

Typically my own shows come around 10:00PM. (The rest of the house has retired and I am free to rule my domain!)

-a 200 footer and a 400 footer
-A pair of 400 footers
-Maybe a 600 footer

(-800 feet and up: strictly Saturday, Sunday and Holidays!)

Life being what it is, I usually can't watch a feature in a sitting, it just winds up being a series of shorts on different nights anyway. (Which is actually kind of nice!)

-so if Brad doesn't have optical sound either, he should be fine with a modern speaker!

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on January 18, 2017, 11:58 AM:

Brad go to any junk store and look for a single 7inch 8ohm speaker in a nice wooden cabinet. If you have a meter take it along and cross the speaker wires with it just to double check its 8ohms and not less, there should be plenty around and sound fine, just remember its a single speaker in its cabinet that you really want. [Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 18, 2017, 12:02 PM:

Understood Steve, but in my own experiences, my Kef iQ speakers weren't big on even mag snd fed through the Denon HC Amp.

In fact nowadays I avoid it all cost since ruining a tweeter even at reasonable levels.

This was when watching a Derann feature with a relatively decent track like the one I placed here above.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 12:10 PM:

When I built the interface between my projectors and my stereo I got my share of high frequency nastiness: not very appealing. Each channel has a series resistor anyway (short circuit protection), so I added in a ceramic capacitor and rolled it off above about 12 kHz.

-all is well.

Seems to me every time I turned the thing on I found something like this to tweak. After a while it paid off. In the heat of battle, every so often my wife would yell down the stairs "What are you DOING?!" (-Especially after I found the full, downright spectacular magnitude of that raw ground loop!)

Can't make an omelet with breaking a few eggs!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 18, 2017, 12:14 PM:

it probably could and should have been avoided by using my equalizer, but on the day, I simply couldn't be bothered setting it all up that way.

i paid the price later though through my lazy ways.

I simply stick with 80's hi fi stuff now if I want extension speakers. It sounds better to my ears with far less nasties,and keeps the home cinema gear good for digital audio, TV & Video Projection purposes.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 12:29 PM:

It was a project and I had fun!

One of the nice things about it is I finally got to use all the stuff I've learned at work over the years for myself! (That's how it started out when I was a teenager...)

I added a potentiometer in there to exactly adjust out the hum from the ground loop . I turned the pot and it went down, down...down and all of a sudden it was just...gone!

-I'd buy a ticket to get that feeling again!

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 18, 2017, 01:58 PM:

Hmm...

Brad is asking what type of speaker to plug into his projector amplifier and on that question, I have to go along with Graham and his advice.

As stated, most computer speakers would NOT work as they are "active" and have their own internal amp. NOT a good idea.

Back in the day of course many companies, such as Craven Instruments here in the UK made very solid single driver cabinets for use with 8mm projectors, so I understand where you are coming from Andrew. Well built, but with "restrained" frequency response which lent themselves well to general 8mm magnetic recordings.

Plug in and play...and certainly better than the speaker in the projector casing.

But, as Brad is asking, what type of modern speaker can be plugged directly into an 8mm sound amplifier 8 ohm output...???

Hmm...

Of course, the better option (which I think Steve and Andrew are talking about) is to take a line level output (or just maybe a lesser pre-amp output, as with an Elmo ST1200-HD headphone output) from the projector to an external amplifier and let that handle whatever speaker system you have attached.

Brad, what projector are you using may we ask?

If you can take a pre-amp output from your projector then you have a world of EQ and great sounding, er, sound opportunities. Any damage then incurred would be down to your amp & speaker set-up.

Personally, I have always achieved sound re-production from 8mm kit which never fails to amaze even myself as I know it is really pushing the boundaries.

Although I suspect we may have some discussion on this, which is more than welcome! [Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 02:14 PM:

I'd imagine you could plug a set of computer speakers into (for example) an Elmo ST Aux. output, but for one thing only the left channel would have any sound: it's what you get when you plug a stereo plug into monaural jack. You'd need an adapter in between to connect mono "out" to right and left "in". You'd also need to remember that this Aux it controlled by the machine's volume knob and the two volume adjusts would need to find some balance between them.

When it worked it wouldn't gain you a lot: you need something with some cone diameter to get that bass going!

Super-8 sound has some amazing bass tones which you will never hear until you go up in speaker size.

What's also interesting is raising the bass seems to mellow the sound. I'm sure I'm running many more watts these days, but I get less complaints than when it was through the projector speakers.

I ask my wife "Did you hear my sound last night?" She says "-no." and I make a note to pour on a little more coal next time!

What would be nice is to find some speakers with beautiful, old cabinets. You might need to fix them up, but they'd lend some atmosphere to the room.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 18, 2017, 02:23 PM:

Indeed, Steve, so with an Elmo ST-1200, as you know, you need to take the two separate track monitor outputs to an external amp.

Then you need EQ, and then some POWER as those outputs are low.

Personally, I never had a real issue making my own shielded cables and whilst the output is low, a decent amp always seemed to cope.

Back in the day, The Lion King or Raiders of the Lost Ark literally made the floor boards shake (no kidding) whilst also providing great clarity stereo (with a little EQ balancing from Derann's, er, slightly tonally different tracks!).

Of course the Elmo was sometimes prone to wow, which could ruin the mood, something the Beaulieu doesn't suffer from.

On a re-recorded stereo print, the Elmo could even attempt Dolby surround. Wowza!

EDIT: I've run my Elmo through a Musical Fidelity Class A with Linn Helix speakers back in the day and...whoa! It even needed bass cut!!

Now the super 8 all runs through a Yamaha 5.1 amp with B&W speakers and a Krell sub.

Sounds great and I hope to soon upgrade the amp!

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on January 18, 2017, 02:26 PM:

The main trouble with using high power multi drive loudspeakers for this is over running the amplifier and causing the output to clip. This gives a square wave output and that has high frequency components that might damage a coil tweeter (which has a much lower power upper limit than the other units.

Also be careful with just using a meter to check the impedance as that is its matching for AC and will show lower as the meter normally uses DC. I have just tested a 8ohm speaker with a meter and got a reading of 6 ohms.

I am actually using a B&H 16mm speaker with my 8mm projector and that works well.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 18, 2017, 02:34 PM:

Indeed, Brian, which gets us back on topic as to what kind of modern speaker we could safely plug into the DIN socket on the side of our 8mm projectors and get good, safe sound...

Steve, "What's also interesting is raising the bass seems to mellow the sound"...

Indeed, the properties of EQ masking! LOL! Don't get me started on early Dolby Digital!!! [Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 02:56 PM:

I'll have to say: this is as thoroughly as we've ever answered a question here!

-Brad?

...Brad???!!!

I think the consensus here is find one simple, cheap old 8 ohm speaker, plug it into the DIN socket and see where it takes you. (BTW: Steve Osborne sells the plugs...)

The first time I tried this I learned about chatter, but that's a story for another day!

(-You start people talking about sound...!)

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on January 18, 2017, 05:36 PM:

Steve: Yes, the journey is as important as the destination when you're talking about hobbies. The process of learning and the feeling of accomplishment can be very rewarding. Which is why right now, I'm enjoying film over digital for some things. I like developing the film even though it is far from the most convenient way to capture an image.

Will I still enjoy it a year or two from now? Perhaps not. Or it could move in another direction. Maybe I'll become interested in medium and large formats. And I still have a goal of developing my own Super 8 film. It will never replace replace digital video for me, but I think it will be something I'll do for special occasions and projects.

If I ever got into projecting sound films I could see myself doing something like you have, though my knowledge of audio isn't nearly what yours is.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 06:28 PM:

When I started out messing around with this the results were on the low side of absolutely awful!

You do, you learn!

Strange accomplishment too: You really can't tell anyone about it!

I tell my friends outside work I busted my ground loop, they say "Ground?...Loop?"

I tell my friends at work I straightened out my projector audio, they say "...Projector??"

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 18, 2017, 06:41 PM:

For just a straightforward plug in extension speaker for our projectors, there's not so many, thinking about it, that didn't have a ready tailor made solution, offered by the manufacturer's of each machine for this dilemma.

On Super 8mm
Bauer did, Elmo did an accessory ext speaker.
So did Eumig, Beaulieu and Braun even sold their units with one without any internal.

On 16mm
It seems many have built in speaker(s) into their outer covers.

All of these I see crop up from time to time on ebay.

Even specialist purpose built speakers like the Craven ones Rob describes, I see occasionally on ebay still.

Plenty to go at anyhow, that's for sure.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on January 18, 2017, 06:44 PM:

Thank you so much for all the replies. I sure envy all the electronics knowledge you all have. I'm just a guy who turns on the projector, threads the film and sits back and enjoys the show. All this has been so helpful. To answer the question as to which projectors I use... I have a Chinon 7000 and a Eumig 810 (Super 8 only).

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 18, 2017, 06:50 PM:

There is a ready made solution already out there for your Eumig Brad, which I'm sure would serve you're Chinon just as well.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 07:34 PM:

The Eumig is a 4 Ohm machine, better to stick with 8 for use with both.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 18, 2017, 07:46 PM:

Well observed Steve. I didn't realize Eumig machines were designed to output into 4 ohm ext speakers.

Are they all this way? (Eumig machines)

Probably the Elmo ones would be best suited then for use on a variety of machines.

Both the Bauer and Beaulieu ones are also 4 ohms.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 18, 2017, 08:02 PM:

I'm not sure about all Eumigs, but I know the 800s are because I've been diddling with the idea of replacing the internal speaker on mine (it buzzes a little.) and I've been shopping for replacements. It's better just to run it through an amp anyway!

I think 4 Ohms is mostly from early car audio, you don't see that one too often these days. That nice oval speaker in the side of a Eumig 800 would be quite comfortable mounted in an old dashboard!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 18, 2017, 10:56 PM:

Even though the Eumig amplifiers were matched to a 4 ohm speaker load, they all work just fine with 8 ohm speakers. And of course there is no danger at all to the amplifier in using 8 ohm speakers. And a good quality 8 ohm speaker, such as the Bose bookshelf speakers, will knock the sox off the Eumig 4ohm extension speakers.

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on January 19, 2017, 03:04 AM:

we have a chain of shops over here called "Richer sounds" that sell hi-fi cheaply and I recently purchased a pair of small 2 way speakers from them for £40. these work very well with my Bauer projectors.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 19, 2017, 03:52 AM:

I was really surprised by how good the Bauer ones sound as extension speakers on their matched units.

Strangely enough, not so good on other machines though, but on the 610, they sound great!

As you say David, for just an extension speaker solution, the world's your oyster really.

Posted by Martin Davey (Member # 2841) on January 19, 2017, 06:40 AM:

When I got my first sound projector in 1982 (chinnon 7800H) I always used an external speaker/ external amp system with the speaker by the front screen right from day one. I wanted to create the right presentation for the films and using the little internal speaker was an absolute no-no. I have never understood why some people watch entire feature films hearing the sound through the internal speaker.
Nowadays films are shown through what ever AV amp is in current use in my (predominantly a blu ray) set up, with the cine films audio occupying the centre channel as expected, the 6.5 ft width wall mounted screen used for all formats.
Regarding the 'academy curve' I find the 'boomy' base quite unpleasant on super 8 releases of Dolby originated films. The sound on old academy curve films sound pleasant as the low and high frequency's are balanced to allow for the poor sound recording and playback inherent on all film formats at the time.
The academy curve was used to solve the problem of heavy base combined with poor high frequency response during the early 1930s. Basically the base was trimmed off to make a more pleasing but, on paper, a less dynamic range track, which made the audio better balanced for greater audibility. It was difficult for the audio chain at the time to record and play back high frequencies.
Dolby tracks did not use the academy curve and as we know greatly improved the sound of 35mm optical, both on the bass and high frequencies during the 70s. But this development did not benefit the super 8 stripe with its poor high frequency response. I often heard the sound demonstrations at the BFCC and found the latest blockbuster release would sound quite bad, being just full of heavy, muddy base and virtually no high frequency information no matter how good the speaker/ amp were, compared to an 'old' film shown during the same show, despite the great efforts of all concerned. The bigger bass response means that the high frequencies also have to be well recorded to compensate for a pleasing, balanced sound. The DVD sync'd did sound good as would be expected at the BFCC. I have not had the pleasure of hearing a home re-record however, from a DVD source but suspect this would stand a chance of being respectable.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 19, 2017, 06:57 AM:

It is indeed Martin, a vast vast improvement over the original recordings in almost all cases.
This is even more prevalent with many of the later prints from Derann.
Obviously it cannot however, ever compare to the original lossless and noiseless sources provided by the discs themselves.
For this method, there is only the "live"pulse sync option of course, as the BFCC often used.

Thanks for your detailed and informative input here. It made great reading! [Smile]

Posted by Martin Davey (Member # 2841) on January 19, 2017, 08:40 AM:

Thank you Andrew. I come to this forum once a day actually, but only as a lurker to enjoy reading everyone's posts!

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 21, 2017, 01:12 PM:

...I've really got to stick my professional neck in here just one last time, even though I think I'll regret it...

Sound is a measurable and controllable element of motion picture and television presentation...

I won't even begin to talk about it because that's why the internet exists and I'm going to refrain.

There are a lot of knowledgeable resources out there.

Also, Steve, please enlighten me on this post which I really do not understand fully;

"I'll have to say: this is as thoroughly as we've ever answered a question here!

-Brad?

...Brad???!!!

I think the consensus here is find one simple, cheap old 8 ohm speaker, plug it into the DIN socket and see where it takes you. (BTW: Steve Osborne sells the plugs...)

The first time I tried this I learned about chatter, but that's a story for another day!

(-You start people talking about sound...!)"

Sorry, but some of this insinuation bothers me, more precisely,

""I'll have to say: this is as thoroughly as we've ever answered a question here!

(-You start people talking about sound...!)"

Can you clarify what you mean by this; i.e - and I will be blunt, are my comments not welcome?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 21, 2017, 01:41 PM:

If there is an insinuation here, it must be very subtle, since I am not aware of making one.

Nobody's comment were unwelcome, I was actually praising them. Yes, my post was immediately after yours, but it was not about you.

I was simply enjoying how someone asks a simple question, and before the original poster even posts again this very lively discussion about many aspects of sound gets going.

Film people get excited about sound. I get that: I'm one of them. I've stepped over too many wires on the floor at CineSea (-including my own) not to.

If the discussion bothered me I sure wasn't showing it: I actively joined in.

No offense intended, no apologies offered either.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 21, 2017, 02:05 PM:

I never even thought about an apology? For what? Why do you need to apologies?

I simply asked are my comments no longer welcome?

And may I add, in my somewhat self-inflicted
limited time left here, are my posts no longer valid?

See, Steve, you could have left it at that, "no offence", but then you had to add, "no apologies..."

I don't think we get on and as you seem to largely dominate this forum I may have to go.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 21, 2017, 02:29 PM:

Since my posts were not about your comments in the least I would say that's a question I hadn't ever considered before.

This is one of those cases where a cigar really is a cigar. There weren't any encoded messages there. Read it line for line: It says what it says, nothing more. Nothing mean, nothing sinister, Nothing personal,-NOT about you, either.

You kind of surprise me here: this post came from my keyboard no worse than tongue in cheek. You seem determined to place some interpretation on it that I have trouble reading into it any way I try.

You are creating a battle of your own making, it's not mine.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 21, 2017, 03:01 PM:

"Since my posts were not about your comments in the least I would say that's a question I hadn't ever considered before."

Alright then, Steve, I openly apologise if I have misinterpreted your own comments.

BTW,

"You are creating a battle of your own making, it's not mine."

No Battle.

Misunderstanding...

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on January 21, 2017, 03:03 PM:

There appears to be a misunderstanding here.....Ooops! Rob beat me to it with his previous post.

Doug

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 21, 2017, 03:05 PM:

I accept that and I regret the whole thing. If I'd known my post would be interpreted that way I would have made it differently.

Seriously Rob: I didn't mean you at all.

I don't come here to battle people. This is kind of my "Pub".

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on January 21, 2017, 05:42 PM:

Its been a few years now, but for a while I thought there was something wrong with my speakers, they just did not sound right [Frown]

Anyway Yvonne my better half got a bout of glue ear thanfully all well now, so I took her to the ear specialist, however she had to have a full hearing check before a meeting with a specialist. I was fasinated how this young lady did all this through her lap top etc. After Yvonne was finished and the report was printed out, I asked her if there was any chance of having it done myself. At a cost of $150 its quite expensive, but very thorough.. so away I went she did it that morning.

I thought I did well, but to my surprise I failed badly in the mid and upper ranges, my hearing was a lot worse than I thought. She recommended that I should consider hearing aids rather sooner than later. Lucky for me the govt would pay for it if it was down to damage caused by my past, and not old age. After more hearing tests and a visit to a hearing specialist, once again I was surprised that I qualified for assistance. After getting fitted out I was surprised what I can now hear....its really amazing and the people that tested and fitted them were brilliant to deal with.

Whats this got to with sound and speakers? well they are only as good as your two tiny eardrums and your brain that can process it all. I told the hearing lady that I can hear music a lot better in the mid to high range, but the down side I told her is that I can now hear the wife telling me what to do [Big Grin]

...she smiled with that one [Wink]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 21, 2017, 08:08 PM:

This thread reminds me that I mentioned some time ago in another the common problem I had putting 8 and 16mm projectors through a modern speaker. I'd bought a new, solid PA-type speaker to use when presenting shows in public halls. It handles 100 watts RMS and the price was amazingly low - around £35 including delivery. I think this is the same one, albeit for a far higher price:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PASSIVE-DISCO-PA-SPEAKER-10-100W-RMS-/39 1618976344?hash=item5b2e4f5a58:g:NboAAOSwA3dYQV19

It produced excellent full-bodied sound better than any speaker I had used before, EXCEPT you now and again heard an annoying distorted 'edge' to the sound coming from a high-frequency horn. My solution may horrify some readers but in the end I asked my brother (who has good electronics knowledge, so nothing could go wrong), to disconnect the horn, so sound only came from the main speaker. I can't guarantee this would work well with every speaker, but it was certainly ideal for me, and much easier than finding a speaker of comparable quality without a horn or tweeter!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 21, 2017, 11:42 PM:

You simply turned your ears Adrian, into those of Graham's before he had his hearing aid fitted,by doing so.

PA Speakers at this price point tend to use very crude cheap piezo horns without a crossover producing many a nasty shrill and clicking /clacking sound besides the actual desired ones.

Had these had been EV or Mackie PA speakers,to name but two, no such disconnection would have proved necessary, or indeed beneficial.

I bet she'd never heard that one before btw Graham! 😂😂😏

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