8mm Forum: Reversal film from negative stock

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Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 03, 2017, 05:17 AM:

I would like to ask if I understand correctly what is on Andec's site (http://www.andecfilm.de/en/e_s8_neg_pos.htm). Is it that if you send a process negative super 8 film, the lab can turn it in a reversal film (that you can project) ? It seems that you need to send them 2 cartridges as there is 25 mt minimum charge (why 25 mt ? as a cartidge is 15 mt, so two cartridges are 30 mt). What is not clear is that they say they don't process anymore but if you send them a film that is already process there is an extra charge for that (how can you send them an unprocess film if they don't process it ?). Has anyone already used this service ?

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on February 03, 2017, 06:59 AM:

I think what they're saying is that there is an extra charge if you send them a negative that's already been processed and put on a reel.

It's cheaper to give them an exposed cartridge that has not yet been processed.

Seems like a great service for those who still want to project.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 03, 2017, 07:21 AM:

I didn't understand they were still processing negative stock. It could be nice to have a feedback from people who have used that service. It is indeed intersting if the results are good.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 03, 2017, 09:51 AM:

As I read it, they will process your Super 8 colour negative stock and then produce a colour corrected print by using wet-gate printing.
http://www.andecfilm.de/en/e_s8_neg_pos.htm

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 03, 2017, 11:01 AM:

So the final price may be high. But still an interesting possibility for subjects that need a high speed stock.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on February 05, 2017, 07:12 PM:

They have said well, Dom, is a Super 8 positive print (projectable) of a Super 8 negative film.
As it says on the site, if you're shot with a Vision3 and, example, don't care a digital scanning, you have a projectable film.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 05, 2017, 07:52 PM:

I wonder what the results are.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 10, 2017, 03:16 AM:

UK memebers are Lucky ! If it was in Brussels...This company, if I understand well, teachs you how to process Kodak Vision to obtain a reversal stock : http://www.gaugefilm.co.uk/workshops.html

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 10, 2017, 06:22 AM:

This is what they say : "On this workshop you will specifically learn how to expose Kodak's Vision 3 line of negative film stock with a Super 8 camera to attain a reversed, projectable image. The course also covers everything from basic camera operation (such as setting the viewfinder to your eye sight) to more advanced functions and features like slow motion, variable shutters, ee locking, time lapse, manual exposure and fades. You will gain an advanced understanding of how the camera and the film cartridge interacts with each other to determine ASA, filtration and mechanical indexing at the optical interface. Film and cameras will be provided on the day.

In the evening you will learn how to process colour negative film with E-6 chemicals to achieve a positive image. This is done with adding baths and ammending processing times. You will learn how to load, develop, splice, dry and project your cine film on the course. The reversal process will be explained thoroughly and after the workshop is complete you will fully grasp how light forms the colour reversal image. We will cover the best methods of practice in regards to unloading film from a cartridge and installing it into a lomo developing tank. We will also show you how to make your own home-built darkroom and drying racks."

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on February 10, 2017, 09:53 AM:

Oh, a colour negative film. I had assumed B&W. I wonder what they do about the orange masking usually built into modern colour negative stock?
I'd be interested to find out.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 10, 2017, 12:51 PM:

Nobody from the forum has never tried or seen a reversal film made from negative (Kodak Vision) ?

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on February 10, 2017, 12:53 PM:

Sounds like a great workshop!

I was curious about how they might be accomplishing this and did a little research. Lot's of people have done this type of cross-processing with still film and the results may not be what you'd like. Better results can be obtained by over exposing while filming and then pushing while processing. Many people will then digitally color correct to improve the images further.

A place in Brooklyn had a similar workshop last year and posted the results (Vision 3 50D in this case). I'll warn you that they hand processed which leads to a scratched and sometimes blotchy look. In Dominque's workshop, they use lomo tanks which would give more professional results.

Also it looks like a mishmash of clips taken by the workshop participants and some of them were definitely new to Super 8. Lots of jerky motion and things out of focus.

But if you can get past all that, some of the better clips might give you an idea of what's possible with this process.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 10, 2017, 01:13 PM:

Thank you for the link, Tom. I noticed that there were spots visible on the perforation. Should that suggest that some of the spots were added intentionally ?

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on February 10, 2017, 01:30 PM:

Some people like that effect and with hand processing it's easy to get by accident or on purpose. The spots would be random either way. I think it would be hard to get a spot exactly where you want one, - if you're talking about what I think you are.

That first clip looked like it was taken with a camera that had a strange gate. There was also vignetting. If you go to the 6:30 mark, you'll see better footage that was processed with more care. There are fewer spots and scratches.

I still haven't purchased a lomo tank. The 10 meter models are fairly inexpensive on eBay but won't fit a whole cartridge. The larger tanks fetch a premium. I'm tempted to just get a smaller one. I'd have cut the film and splice after processing (twice). On the other hand I may wait until Kodak starts selling ektachrome again. I could also try hand processing I suppose but lots of spots and scratches aren't something I find desirable. [Wink]

Before any of that, I'd want some practice with e-6 processing so I guess I have time.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on June 28, 2017, 06:13 PM:

The Widescreen Centre, sadly no longer in centrel London as they used to be, offers the same reversal from negative stock service. It is not written that they send the films to Germany so maybe they do that in the UK ? https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/film-department/negative-positive-printing

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on June 28, 2017, 06:34 PM:

Though I am happy that such services exist, it does demonstrate how far Super 8 has moved away from it's original market.

For me to shoot 3 minutes of color footage that I can project the traditional way, it'll cost close to $70.00 by the time I pay for the cost of the film, processing, and shipping. And that's the cheapest alternative I've found using one of the few color reversal films still available which frankly I don't like very much.

What the Widescreen option does, is let someone get far better results using modern color negative film. But it's even more expensive. An alternative is to just have it scanned rather than printed on a positive, but that's not cheap either.

So for our annual party at the lake this year, I'll be filming in black and white. One reel will be some some long expired 8mm Kodachrome that I'll be processing as black and white. And the other will be Kodak Plus-X.

I considered using color negative film but the Vision 3 50D would have taken too long to get here and I'm not quite comfortable with what it would take to process it on my own yet. And it's too costly for me to have it done professionally

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