This is topic Spools or Reels? in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.


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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on June 10, 2017, 10:38 PM:
 
This topic started as a sale thread in the equipment section, where Osi wrote "I have two black plastic reels that I am selling."

It took off from there, so I've moved the discussion to this section which allows Osi to sell his reels (or spools) here.

Rob's post refers to Osi's use of the term "reels".

Doug
 

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 10, 2017, 10:41 PM:
 
These are spools, Osi, a reel is a length of film.

Sorry, no offence but this is a bugbear of mine!

Good luck with your sale.
 

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Posted by Bradford A Moore (Member # 426) on June 10, 2017, 10:45 PM:
 
Sorry to say with all my years of collecting, I have always referred to them as reels. Go on any site selling them, and they are called reels. Spools is very uncommonly used or said, or at least in this country. It sounds more like a British thing.

Best
 

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 10, 2017, 10:47 PM:
 
No, with respect.

A spool is something which carries or holds film.

A reel is a length of film footage.

Wikapedia...

"It is traditional to discuss the length of theatrical motion pictures in terms of "reels". The standard length of a 35 mm film reel is 1,000 feet (305 m), which runs approximately 11 minutes for sound film (24 frames per second)[2] and about 15 minutes at silent film speed at the more-or-less standard speed of 16 frames per second (but that could be as high as 22 fps).[3] Most films have visible cues which mark the end of the reel. This allows projectionists running reel-to-reel to change over to the next reel on the other projector.
A so-called "two-reeler" would have run about 15–24 minutes since the actual short film shipped to a movie theater for exhibition may have had slightly less (but rarely more) than 1,000 ft (305 m) on it. Most modern projectionists use the term "reel" when referring to a 2,000-foot (610 m) "two-reeler", as modern films are rarely shipped by single 1,000-foot (305 m) reels. A standard Hollywood movie averages about five 2000-foot reels in length.
The "reel" was established as a standard measurement because of considerations in printing motion picture film at a film laboratory, for shipping (especially the film case sizes) and for the size of the physical film magazine attached to the motion picture projector. Had it not been standardized (at 1,000 ft or 305 m of 35 mm film) there would have been many difficulties in the manufacture of the related equipment. A 16 mm "reel" is 400 feet (122 m). It runs, at sound speed, approximately the same amount of time (11–12 minutes) as a 1,000-foot (305 m) 35 mm reel.
A "split reel" is a motion picture film reel in two halves that, when assembled, hold a specific length of motion picture film that has been wound on a plastic core. Using a split reel allows film to be shipped or handled in a lighter and smaller form than film would on a "fixed" reel. In silent film terminology, two films on one reel.
As digital cinema catches on, the physical reel is being replaced by a virtual format called Digital Cinema Package, which can be distributed using any storage media (such as hard drives) or data transfer medium (such as the Internet or satellite links) and projected using a digital projector instead of a conventional movie projector.
Actors may submit a demo reel of their work to prospective employers, often in physical reel format."

"Spool, a usually low-flanged or unflanged cylinder on which thread, wire, cable, paper, film, straps, or tape is wound for distribution or use."
 

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Posted by John Hermes (Member # 1367) on June 10, 2017, 10:49 PM:
 
A spool is for thread, a reel is for film.
No one calls them spools in the U.S.
 

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 10, 2017, 10:51 PM:
 
Quote,

"A spool is for thread, a reel is for film.
No one calls them spools in the U.S."

Sorry, John, again, with respect, don't get you.

Generally, a super 8 reel is 200ft of film, which then is supplied on a spool, or whatever dispensing method you feel appropriate.

For example, an old school 3 x 400ft super 8 can be on 3 x 400ft SPOOLS.

But the footage can be 360 to 400ft of film, or REELS per SPOOL, then depending upon film stock.

So the footage is considerably variable per spool.

REEL = FILM LENGTH, NOT THE THING IT IS ON!
 

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Posted by John Hermes (Member # 1367) on June 10, 2017, 10:52 PM:
 
Hey Rob. I do understand what you're saying. All I'm telling you is what you call spools in the U.K. we call reels here, regardless whether in reality it's a measurement term or not. You can state the definition a million times but it's not going to change anything. They've been called reels here since day one and will continue to be. It's not worth arguing about.

I'm curious...what do you guys call an audio reel-to-reel(our term) tape deck over there?
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on June 10, 2017, 11:11 PM:
 
Rob,

It wasn't until I discovered this Forum that I heard the term spool applied to what I had known only as a reel. So both Elmo and Bolex are not referring to the product inside the box?

And yes, they did sell for $5.52 and $4.53.





Doug
 

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Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on June 10, 2017, 11:16 PM:
 
I only have used the term "Spools" for yarn or thread. Sometimes If I'm not feeling well I say i have loose "spools". Wait is that the same thing?
 

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Posted by Oliver F. R. Feld (Member # 1911) on June 11, 2017, 12:10 AM:
 
The german word for "reel" is "Spule"...! Also called "Filmspule"...!
And although I always assumed that the english word would be "reel" it is interesting to read about "spool" here...!
 

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Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on June 11, 2017, 12:15 AM:
 
Doug, that is a truly low price for that 800ft Elmo reel! I'll take 2 please.
 

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on June 11, 2017, 01:11 AM:
 
"Spool vs Reel" imho is just like "subway vs underground train".

Yes of course you cannot ride subway, because it was only meant (originally) to say a way under the ground. So what people ride is a train.

So the exact word must be "underground train" but people nowadays understand what the meaning of "I am taking subway to your place"

Cheers,
 

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Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on June 11, 2017, 02:36 AM:
 
Do you say "camera reel" in the US ? That would sound strange.
 

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Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 11, 2017, 03:31 AM:
 
When it came to 1/4 in audio tape I always bought if on either a 5 3/4 or 7 inch reel, not spool - so to me the term reel always meant the container not the content.
 

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Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on June 11, 2017, 04:30 AM:
 
The old 4x400ft features were advertised as 8 reelers. Here's a bargain reel/spool Schneider
 

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Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on June 11, 2017, 04:36 AM:
 
For what it's worth, in Ireland we have always called them reels.
I don't see that it matters, to be honest.
 

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Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on June 11, 2017, 04:47 AM:
 
In the UK we also refer to a film in terms of reels.
I have never seen a film advertised as for instance '3 x 4 spools'.
.A 'spool' I have only seen mentioned in regard to an empty spool, and then more often refered to as an empty reel.
Working as a projectionist years ago we would fetch the next reel from the cabinet, and loading the next weeks programme may be refered to as 'spooling up' or 'spooling off' at the end of the run.
 

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 11, 2017, 05:11 AM:
 
Doug, thank you for appropriately moving this conversation.

To quote Michael, "I don't see that it matters to be honest", and I agree, so lets keep it light hearted.

But, for example, a 6 reel version of a Marketing film is on 3, er, reels.

So it's not roughly 3 x 400ft, it's actually 3 x 200ft in length?

No, apparently not. It's on 3 plastic things with film on them...the length? Who knows?

Just kidding guys; this thread has proved interesting if nothing else.
 

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Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on June 11, 2017, 03:09 PM:
 

quote:

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But, for example, a 6 reel version of a Marketing film is on 3, er, reels.

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quote:

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I could never understand why they used three reels when they fitted on two. Must have been down to marketing.

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David, I belive this is back to the consumer's mindset at that time regarding the price. For a 400' reel with acetate base was about US$40-60 (color and sound) depending on the title, print quality and the actual film length (usualy between 320 ft to 375ft). If we take the max price and length of film, this means the cost was about $0.16/feet.

Now back to Marketing Films, they used polyester film which is 25% thinner than acetate for the same length. If they fill a 400' reel until the edge (very full), the actual lenght has actually already been 533 ft of film.

That consumer mindset regarding the price of a full 400', would not be sucessfully beaten by Marketing if they sold a full 400' polyester film at $85. This would be considered too expensive although buyer would get longer films but majority would not understand this.

So the best way was to sell a look a like 300 ft of acetate but actually was 375 feet of polyester and packed them on to 3 reels like other companies which still used acetate base film. So they could sell at the same price with other companies.

cheers,
 

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Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on June 11, 2017, 05:02 PM:
 
I've always used the term reel or reels in regard to film storage. Spools I would associate with textiles.
 

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Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on June 11, 2017, 06:04 PM:
 
My Eumig stuff says

Universal projection "Spool" Europa 400 feet with library box for Super-Single and Standard 8....check your Eumig stuff..

As stated on the boxes I have on some Std 8mm are... Spulen Bobines Spools Made in France.


 

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Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on June 11, 2017, 06:51 PM:
 
Never used Eumig . Elmo were always reels as where Bounum reels and cans from Austria never spools Always liked the term bobines.
 

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 12, 2017, 07:10 AM:
 
Hang on, years ago I used to rent films off a chap that designated the hire cost in terms of film length...in reels.

So one reel was 200ft.

Hiring, say a Walton 4 x 400ft was therefore 8 reels.

But when it arrived it was on...4 reels / spool things!?

I should have asked for a 50% refund!


 

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Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on June 12, 2017, 09:46 AM:
 
Next topic, 'lace' or 'thread'!

I lace up my Fumeo because it is manual no auto, but my ELMO I thread because it is auto thread.

I remember the first time I visited America LAX. Going through immigration/customs I had a lot of super 8 film and a cine camera. When he asked what's that I said a cine camera, his words A What? Oh you call them movie camera's over here. Holding the queue up we had a nice chat about different names for things. His last one really made me laugh. Well what do you call stockings and suspenders that women wear? At last common ground.
 

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Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on June 12, 2017, 12:51 PM:
 
I always thread or auto thread. 📽📽 Do my laces in the morning and at night. Ah cine cameras or movie cameras alway guaranteed to get you extra special attention going through airports👮👮👮👮
 

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Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on June 12, 2017, 05:54 PM:
 
The National Archives only lists, from what I saw, reels of films. I can't recall ever seeing a spool of film.

This thread reminds me of chips. When ordering, what arrives on your plate greatly depends on what side of the Atlantic you are sitting...
 

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Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on June 12, 2017, 06:48 PM:
 
This American webstite uses the word "spool". Maybe it depends on the areas...
Edit : I've realized that I stupidely forgot to put the link. I don't remember to which US site I was refering but I found this :

http://www.spectrafilmandvideo.com/Film.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16mm-kodak-cine-spool-2-3-4-inch-film-spool-vintage-film-cinema-/262992591846

http://www.yalefilmandvideo.com/filmprocessing8mm.php?expandable=2 (they use the words "roll" and "spool".

This one is Australian :

http://www.cameratim.com/business/film-length-tables

[ June 20, 2017, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Dominique De Bast ]
 

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Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on June 13, 2017, 01:51 AM:
 
With Eastman-Kodak spools belong to cameras and reels to projectors, simple as that. A spool, if at all, has solid flanges for light protection, reels generally have open-worked ones.
 

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Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on June 20, 2017, 05:52 PM:
 
I shall join the fray. Why not?

Nobody's mentioned the term "roll." That's quite relevant. See, if a "reel" is a 200-foot length, then it corresponds to the original concept of "reel" in the nitrate days being 1000 feet and 10-15 minutes run time, depending on projection speed. However, 2K "reels" came into use shortly thereafter, but the 20-minute Laurel and Hardy comedies (for example) are considered "2-reelers" even if supplied on a 2000-foot, er, device.

So "rolls" came along when printing down to 16mm because, as you well know, you can run 40 to 50 minutes comfortably on a 1,600-footer, and they'd identify THOSE compilations as "rolls." Take a look on leaders and you'll see markings like "Roll 1 Reels 1-2-3-4-5-6" or such.

Never seen the work "spool" on any leader, American can, nor eBay ad, sorry to say Rob.
 

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Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 21, 2017, 03:18 AM:
 
The labels on Derann/Walton/Techno releases always seemed to use the word "Part" 1,2,3 etc on the boxes rather than reel or spool a 400ft or 600ft part. So no help from them on this.
 

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 21, 2017, 05:15 AM:
 
Sorry Simon,

"With Eastman-Kodak spools belong to cameras and reels to projectors, simple as that. A spool, if at all, has solid flanges for light protection, reels generally have open-worked ones."

What???

So as I now know, I put a light proof spool of film in my camera, with a reel of film on it (Oh crickey, Bill, it might be a roll), then when I get it back on it's reel, it's a reel of film on a reel, or a roll of film on a reel, or is it a part? I don't know any longer...then project it using a take-up spool. NO! Take-up REEL! Or something...


 

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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 21, 2017, 05:53 AM:
 
It's one of those spanner/wrench kinds of discussions.

What if we say they are synonyms and call it a draw? (or even a tie, stalemate or impasse?)

In any case, it' a little late to convince a couple of hundred million people they are wrong either way.
 

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 21, 2017, 06:01 AM:
 
Oh no, Steve, now they're "synonyms" as well...

I need to lie down...


 

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Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on June 21, 2017, 06:07 AM:
 
It's seems that this difference is an English language specificity. There is only one word (bobine) in French to translate "spool" and "reel" and I believe it's the same in other languages. In opposite, you have in English one word to express two different things in French : the English word river is tranlated "rivière" but when a river goes directly in the sea or the ocean, it is no longer a "rivière", it's a "fleuve". Must be a French distinction as in Spanish, as I know, there is only one word (rio) as well.
 

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Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on June 21, 2017, 03:02 PM:
 
This is the PERFECT solution. Let's just all use the French instead!

So on eBay we'd say something like: "This feature comes mounted on two 800-foot bobines."

Perfect, I say!!!
 

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