8mm Forum: Elmo GS1200 Upgrade

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Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on October 12, 2017, 05:11 AM:

I was planning of putting a Osram Xenophot 24V 250W HLX ELC and a LED trafo 300W 24VDC 12.5A IP67 CV my Elmo GS1200, see below links.

At first I'm planning to put the travo paralel on the lpcontacts of the lamp.
If it looks good I ask someone to build it in.
But is it save to do so?

Lamp here:
[URL=http://www.leuchtstark.de/Leuchtmittel/Halogenlampen/OSRAM/Medizinische-Lampen/Osram-64653-HLX-ELC-250W-24V-EEK-nicht-relevant.html?gmc=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwpfzOBRA5EiwAU0ccNzU0EKG HLPUl]http://www.leuchtstark.de/Leuchtmittel/Halogenlampen/OSRAM/Medizinische-Lampen/Osram-64653-HLX-ELC-250W-24V-EEK-nicht-relevant.html?gmc=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwpfzOBRA5EiwAU0ccNzU0EK GHLPUl[/URL] FFpej7yte-P--m5K2cwBylcDlRFz2NXmwmZtgr-sxhoCdzgQAvD_BwE

Travo here:
http://www.ledtrafoshop.nl/product/led-strip-trafo-200w-12vdc-16-6a-ip67-cv/

[ October 15, 2017, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Matthieu van der Sluis ]

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on October 12, 2017, 11:59 AM:

Hi Matthieu,

Upgrading Power supply up to 300W or much more is not a problem now with Electronic Power Supply using High Frequency "Hatching" Technology.

However I suggest you to select PSA items offering a pretty good filtered "output" design to avoid extra noises added to your sound (due to ripple currents below 20Khz, above 20Khz, normal human ears can not ear anything) . If extra noises are experienced, check output current with an oscilloscope to help you to fix problem if met.....

Efficient Filters are made with Inductors associated to Capacitors.

If you intend to pick up a 250W power, I suggest you to select a 500W item to get a confortable margin. More Tighten is the margin, higher is the risk to met a power supply overheat....
These modern power supply generally requires a good air flow to safely work.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on October 12, 2017, 04:08 PM:

Than this one will probably stay cool:

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/Single-Output-24v-DC-Power-Supply-Switching-41-7a-1000w-Led-Driver-Transformer-110V-220V-AC/32698830544.html?spm=a2g0z.search0302.3.9.ITPwKW&ws_ab_te st=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_0_10051_10050_10053_10052_10338_10055_10099_10054_10177_10056_10059_10532_10534_10533_10060_100031_10107_10304_10307_10341_10065_10142_10340_10068_1 0343_10342_10301_10103_10345_10102_10344_10073_10152_10151_10110_10154_10079_10112_10078_10111_10155_10114_10312_10113_10314_10313_10080_10082_10081_10084_10083,searchweb201603_0,p pcSwitch_0&algo_pvid=61ccee9f-fe74-46bc-8a2c-566bbfd40ea2&algo_expid=61ccee9f-fe74-46bc-8a2c-566bbfd40ea2-1

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 12, 2017, 08:09 PM:

You can always use a old slide projector that runs on 24v/250watt lamp as your source. A lot of slide projectors you can pick up for near to nothing these days, due to the internal mechanical parts wearing out. As long as the lamp still works, just run a couple of leads from the cut off slide projector wires at the lamp side and run them up to the GS1200. One good thing about doing this, you can still use the high/low switch on the slide projector.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on October 13, 2017, 12:48 AM:

I have 2 of those upstairs.
For trying it out, I only have to order the lamp.

Eventually, if it works positive, I like to have it built in.
Thats why I need small equipment, but as Phil Murat mentioned, without the extra noise added to my sound.

Is it save to add the wires of the slide projector paralel to the wires that are already on the lamp?

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 13, 2017, 12:44 PM:

Yes its safe but you do need to remove the slide projector lamp. Only ""one lamp" can run off the slide projector transformer. [Smile]

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on October 13, 2017, 01:25 PM:

Hahaha, Yes indeed.
Still good to mention.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 13, 2017, 02:17 PM:

I have made up about three portable 24v/250watt easy to connect power supplies from old Elmo slide projectors with worn out mechanical bits. They were of know use as a slide projector anymore and in this case I removed all the working parts.
[Smile]

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on October 15, 2017, 12:13 PM:

Is this lamp suitable for the 8mm gate?
XENOPHOT 64653 HLX ELC 24V 250W GX 5.3 bulb OSRAM 24V250W

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 15, 2017, 06:03 PM:

I use that lamp all the time on the GS1200..no problem.. [Smile]

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on October 18, 2017, 06:19 PM:

Guys, the lumens output of any Osram ELC, including the HLX-series, is less than that of the Philipps or Ushio bulbs. Don't know why, but they're cheap enough you can try it for yourself if you please.
The standard Osram ELC is about 800 lumens flux, and the HLX is a little more; but the Philipps and Ushio bulbs are 1500. Not sure how they did that, but you can see it on screen if you put them side-by-side, or take a camera photo with identical manual settings. Better, use a light meter!

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on October 18, 2017, 07:17 PM:

Graham can you post a non close up picture of how you run your cable from the power source to the projector for a show? It seems you would wind up leaving some part of the lamp house off which would just cause all sorts of light to leaked into the room.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 18, 2017, 10:08 PM:

Hi Dino [Smile]

I cut a small piece out of the lamp cover for the wiring to pass through..

Also I had to remove from the inside lamp cover, the little plate that holds the spare lamp, as it was just hitting the new lamp socket wiring coming out of the rear of the lamp. The plate is held on with a couple of screws. With that out the road it made things a lot easier when re-fitting the inside cover.

With the cover fitted.....

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on October 18, 2017, 10:55 PM:

Presumably Graham, the logic circuitry for lamp illumination is now totally by-passed, and you have to be very very careful not to switch on the lamp with the film not moving. And similarly not stop the forward motion of the film without first switching off the lamp. Kind of risky.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 18, 2017, 11:53 PM:

Thats true Paul...I have placed red insulating tape on the lamp switch as a reminder to swich the projector lamp/fan switch to "on" as soon as fwd is pressed so the cooling fan will run.

Once you get into the habit of first pressing fwd, then swich the lamp/fan swith to on, then lastly the external power supply and then the lamp. Same for switching off., the lamp first, then the fan to continue to run for a short while to let things cool down..fan off...motor stop.

Another option is just to leave the projector lamp/fan switch on all the time, so when you press fwd it comes on automatic.

I am looking at fitting a HID kit to the projector. I have most of the bits, but will have to work on a jig the distances etc so the lamp is tightly focused on the gate and know where else...anyway another day for that one.. [Smile]

PS...Just a thought, if you were to run the existing lamp wires not being used at present ie 24volts, to a small relay which is wired to open, when the projector lamp/fan switch is to its on position, then that current could keep the relay contacts in the open position ie no current going to the 24 volt solenoid. However if that current is switched off when the lamp/fan switch is pressed down, the relay contacts would then engage, and wired so that any external 24volt supply, which we already have from the external 24volt power supply, would activate the solenoid thus the dowser would close..mmmmmmmm [Roll Eyes]

...I have some bits from a slide projector...something like this...

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on October 22, 2017, 12:34 AM:

Hello at all!
Before using the Osram ELC 250W Lamp in the GS1200 you must set the
Lampholder 10mm back of the original Position. Than the maximal Focusing of this mirror is on the Frame.

[/IMG]

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 22, 2017, 12:45 PM:

Thanks Thomas...I think I will give it a go, can you post that photo again as its to small to see any detail... [Smile]

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on October 22, 2017, 10:18 PM:

Hello Graham!
If I `ll try to make the Picture bigger, I cant it upload here.
What is wrong there?

Thomas

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 23, 2017, 12:33 AM:

Hi Thomas

There is a limit for uploading pictures, as no more than 550 pixels wide. also I think it must be JPEG as well. You might have to re-size your photos to fit..

I did what you suggested today, by moving the lamp holder back the 10mm, by simply drilling another hole on the lamp bracket. However I also made a sort of swing arm, so that I could tilt the lamp holder up or down on the forward screw, adjusting the arm on the rear screw in its slot while running the lamp and the same time running the projector/fan and watching the screen for overall brightness.

Moving it back 10mm certainly improved the brightness, plus I feel the lamp will get more cooling at the front now from the fan....thanks Thomas it was well worth doing. [Smile]

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on October 23, 2017, 09:02 AM:

Graham Now I try it again. Conecting The external Transformer to the GS 1200. All my three Machines have this Conector on the Top.

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on October 23, 2017, 09:02 AM:

And this is my external Transformer.
It can be dimmed from 0 to 26 V.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 23, 2017, 12:41 PM:

Thats brilliant Thomas [Cool]

....your modifications look great [Smile]

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on October 24, 2017, 02:12 AM:

So guys, that's amazing what you've done already, and superb information.

Thomas, that looks really beautyfull this way.

I think this machines are far more interesting after this Xenophot conversionnow than the GS1200 Xenon, arent they? Specially when you havve a MKIII projector which is basically the same.
I've never seen a xenon version in person, but they seem to be very noisy.

[ October 24, 2017, 06:18 AM: Message edited by: Matthieu van der Sluis ]

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on October 24, 2017, 09:57 AM:

The Xenon Elmos are very rare and very expensive.
I play cinemascope on a 10 feet Screen. It is bright enough.
But I use the Philips ELC 250W Lamp which has a brighter Light output. This external Transformer was made with the same output Voltages as the original GS Transformer. So preheating and the two Brightswitches are in Funktion.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on October 24, 2017, 12:45 PM:

I was thinking, of a built in version, but your solution is beautyfull too.
I've send an email to Van Eck, to see if they can transform my Elmo GS1200 MKIII with an inbuild solution, but if not,... I like what you did as well and I'll go for your solution.

Where can I find your Travo?
Where did you cut you lightcable, and attached your Travo, so the functions are in tact?

[ October 24, 2017, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Matthieu van der Sluis ]

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on October 25, 2017, 10:20 PM:

This Transformer was only made speciell for my GS machines.
Long Time ago I went to a Transformer Factory and give them the Voltage I must have. And they made the Transformer for me. The Output Voltages must be 0-21,5-24-25 and perhaps 26V. The Input was 230V +- 5%.
In the GS you must cut the three Lamplines on the Transformer.
0=black, 21,5=yellow, 24=white. Now I have 6Lines melt on. Three from the Transformer comming and three that are going to the Elmo (Lamp). This 6 Lines I put together in a 8 Point Conetor from (Neutrik). If plug in the Conector from the external Transformer only the three Lines from the Lamp are passing through. But I have the same conector with three bridges in it and when I pluged this Adaptor in The internal Transformer works again.

Sorry for my bad English.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on October 26, 2017, 04:12 AM:

Perfectly clear to me.
Thank you very much. Very impressive what you did.
A solution like this would be just as nice when a build in version is impossible.
A Transformer can be made out of the Slideprojector gears maybe.
I like to have it all compact and travel ready.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 12, 2017, 04:30 AM:

In another lamptopic I received this tip, so I'm going to try them out.
Maybe I can make it a few day's vacation to there.

Matthieu, to give you an idea, a German company does that job for 65 euros but of course you must add the shipping costs http://www.ffr-film.de/index.php?page=elmo&language=eng

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 18, 2017, 04:44 PM:

I did ask them to transfoirm my projector to the Xenophot version and asked them to add a bigger travo, but they said they do not change the travos and that this Xenophot 24V/250W will work with the original one normally and that it depends on the Watt the local net will put out.

We have 230V, but I cannot believe this has something to do with this.
Also strange, because here on the forum a few worn me not to change the 200W to a 250W, because it will give problems.
I have a GS1200MKIII which is the latest version, so doesn't have this projector a better power suply?

They also say I will get a bigger light output with the HTI tecnologie. Not sure what to expect with this?

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on November 18, 2017, 05:20 PM:

Matthieu

Its the amps that is being drawn out of the transformer you have to be carefull about.

....200watt at 24volts will draw 8.33amps
....250watt at 24volts will draw 10.41amps

The projector transformer was designed for the 8.33 amps, however because of the projector age, its not a good idea to try to push it to get extra amps out of it. It may work, but if you overload it causing damage to the transformer you will be in the "poo" big time [Eek!]

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 18, 2017, 05:33 PM:

I cannot believe a company like that converts a GS1200 like this, wwhen it is so dangerous.
They only replace the lamp 10mm backwards and exchange it to a Xenophot of 250W.

I was really hoping for a better conversion.
They do change shutterblades, but I so want the white light of xenophot.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on November 18, 2017, 09:38 PM:

You really need a safety margin with a transformer eg if you are using a 250watt lamp its best to have a transformer rated much higher say 300watt or more. The thing is with the GS1200 we just dont know what the specs of the transformer is for the lamp. Everthing is built at a cost, and the GS1200 is no exception. Transformers that I have come across basically the more you pay the higher the specs ie more wattage.

There has been a number of people use the 250watt lamp instead of the 200watt I guess without a problem. but is it worth taking the chance? what is the tranformer of the GS1200 rated at? and do you have that safety margin?

Another thing if the GS1200 is only capable of 200watts, but no more, its not going to give you the extra amps you need for the 250watt lamp, so you wont get the benefit of extra light.

Anyway thats my theory [Smile]

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on November 19, 2017, 02:25 AM:

Graham I agree with you.
After running two Hours with long Arms and big Reels
i opened the rear Cover and the Transformer was very Hot.
At that Point I knew that I need an external Transformer.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 19, 2017, 04:47 AM:

THey say the transformer can do it. It is a company that is experienced with converting Elmo's, but I don't know them and how good they really are.
http://www.ffr-film.de/index.php?page=elmo&language=eng
For €65 they replace the lamp for me and also do a few other things as well, like replacing the shutterblade for a 2, 3 combi and they have a metal filmguide as well.

Posted by Thomas Knappstein (Member # 6134) on November 19, 2017, 10:22 PM:

May be that the Transformer can do this. But an external one is much better to handle different Bulbs.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on November 20, 2017, 04:51 AM:

That is probably so.
Hmm, I don't think I'm skilled enough to do this myself proparly, so the projector keeps its looks.
No company nearby can do this and I rather bring the projector myself.
I'll ask them, altough they think it's not necessary , if they still wanna do the instal for me.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on November 20, 2017, 06:28 AM:

Some disco lighting use the standard 24v 250w toroidal power supply, and as Graham mentioned in another thread slide projectors use this lamp config, so could be picked off ebay for little money, all you would need to do is adapt the wiring to suit the elmo GS.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on May 10, 2018, 03:22 AM:

By using this 24V DC transformer on the outside, will the wrire still give distortion to the sound of the GS1200.

https://ledstrip-specialist.nl/Transformator-voor-ledstrips-20A-480-WATT¤cy=EUR&language=nl?gclid=Cj0KCQjw28_XBRDhARIsAEk21Fi0OGKfhmo1nWOfwAr-O0MnIIO9MtzQGSBGM7sNxCe6b5FNyeHb kVUaAtcrEALw_wcB

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