8mm Forum: Of films and projectors ...

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 24, 2018, 01:14 PM:

Ok, I'm sure that many have pondered this as well as I ...

The thought is ...

I have low fade prints that are 80 years or younger, the earliest being Cinecolor prints and Ansco-chrome prints (later to be renamed Agfa!) and of course, Kodachrome ...

Then there are, of course, the modern ,low fades, Agfa and of course, our beloved L.P.P. film stock ...

Now, how long are our PROJECTORS going to last?

I already read, time and time again, about the brilliant but "high maintenance' ELMO's and while my Eumig's are holding up well, (as are the CHNON 9500's) ...

I'm betting that these projectors will wear out long before the color fades from our prints.

I'm betting that someone out there, is going to have to make some new super 8 projectors ... at least a one really good one along the lines of a top of the line Eumig or ELMO ...

... as i would be quite sad to have a wonderful library with dead carcasses of projectors lying about. [Confused]

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on February 24, 2018, 03:04 PM:

EIKI is nice - Perhaps you might go with a Telecine machine - Of course EUMIG 807D (600' capacity) offers a clear picture - Of films and projectors...no choice, there are sources for repairs, lamps and accessories...films is/are another nice mess - Shorty

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 24, 2018, 03:21 PM:

Hi Osi,
Much as I agree with your post, I think the chances of seeing a brand new super 8mm sound projector, of the kind that we would want to use, are nil. Look at what Kodak have found out trying to create a new super 8 film camera. All the technology and engineering know how has been lost, and they are having to start from scratch. Their final design is a camera, which certainly looks inferior to most top end S8 cameras of 40 years ago, at a cost of over $2K! I do not rule out someone coming out with a real cheap and cheesy projector at some point (maybe Kodak if their camera happens to take off)but I doubt it.
No, realistically we are stuck with what we have and what we can get off ebay or private dealers. Our main hope are the Edwin Van Eck's and Leon Norris's of this world, who can help out with some of the spare parts to keep these machines going,

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 24, 2018, 03:39 PM:

When you think about it we are doing quite well to still be going this strong. Steve klare once said something that made me think,

Modern technology keeps moving on, DVD players, now blu ray, TVs, washing mashing etc all seem to last 10 years or less and we replace them yet we are using projectors in excess of 40 years old or more,(much more in some cases) and we keep expecting them to keep going and performing.

Dave Guest did also comment that all this money people seem to want to pay out on one title, (well over a thousand in some cases), what will happen to these when there's no one to repair the projectors,or any spares left to repair them with, We have now lost Bill Parsons in the Uk, there aint many left.

It's another good reason to go into 16mm, there seems to be many more titles around, and a lot more machines and spares.
For The GS1200 owners one of the main repair experts is now retired . If i had one theirs no one else i would trust with it.

Osi, i think the films will definatly outlast the projectors, at least now im in middle aged, (well, the later side of it), i hope we should be ok. [Wink]

[ February 26, 2018, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: Tom Photiou ]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 24, 2018, 03:45 PM:

I think the best advice is to buy a second projector as a source of spare parts.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 24, 2018, 03:58 PM:

Osi

Its not so much how long projectors are going to last, but how long are WE going to last [Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 24, 2018, 04:19 PM:

True, Graham! I always figure that factor in these discussions. I recently picked up a literally new in box Elmo ST-800: I hope this keeps me in business as long as I'm able, even after the rest of the herd becomes parts machines.

Thanks, Tom, but it's "Klare": my French ancestors needed to get out of town so fast they had to leave the "C" behind! (Louis XIV, etc.) They glued on a "K" in the new place just to get beer!

-kind of a shame: I met a really gorgeous woman named "Claire" once. I could never marry her: too confusing!

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on February 26, 2018, 03:19 AM:

All true.
I'm a bit differend than most of you here, I think.
I'm very nostalgic.
I do like to own a Derann high quallity Disney LPP film, just to see how beautyfull a S8 projector can show this.
Still, I only feel the need of just having the older movies I owned or have seen in the past on S8.
Or some older films on 3x 400' reels, because their nicely cut, and more easily watchable for my kids this way, because they cannot bare the complete length of those, since the films of today go much faster.

I really love Super8, the sound and smell of the projector and film go through.
But the next generation only like to see it, and the next don't even know what it is., because even the cinema's are digital now.

I sell 4K video projectors that shows films with HDR (High Dynamic Range) and DCI P3 color dept, we see in the cinema.
So a film like Terminator 2, although I like to own it and see it on S8, I probably rather see that in 4K UltrHD Blu-Ray, on one of these €5000 ISF-Calibrated projectors like the Sony VPL-VW260ES or JVC DLA-X7900 projectors I have here, than on my Elmo GS1200.

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on February 26, 2018, 04:23 AM:

Hi Osi,

I am quite confident concerning the future of some machines as Beaulieu or GS1200.

A machine like Beaulieu was designed as a "professional" (simple & efficient) machine, so that this is an easy one to maintain (may be the easiest to maintain).

The more sensible parts (supposed to fade first) are Mag Heads (first Generation) for this machine.
It could be very helpfull to attempt an Elmo head installation.

Even some parts are not easy to find (for a reasonnable price), there are many solutions to repair worn parts or fix faults.

GS1200 is the more advanced one (Electronicaly). Apart "PCOM" version which is sensible due to its specific IC (Mitsubishy or Motorola which need a little "firmware"), many Electronical components can be found on the market.

However, the slide switch (ESS) is very difficult to find in its original size.
The problem is this switch is often faulty (loosen contacts)........

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on February 26, 2018, 04:44 AM:

This is similar in theme to a speculation I started some time back - what if digital technology never existed? Presumably mechanical projectors would be the norm, still? How far would they have advanced, and would the prices of older machines still be at a premium, like vintage cars?
Perhaps their obselescence has now made them affordable to us hard pressed enthusiasts, though you may not think so, looking at some outrageous prices asked on ebay.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 26, 2018, 11:37 AM:

Haha! Well, I hope to hold on for an excess of 50 years ...

Though i highly doubt that at 100 yars old, I'd be able to pick up one of those ELMO projectors! GROAN!!! That son of a gun is heavy!!!

I KNEW that there was some reason why i had that son O mine!! [Smile]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 26, 2018, 01:32 PM:

My 16mm projectors seem to be getting heavier as each day goes by. I now find it difficult to use my 4ft high projector stand, a small table is now the norm.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 26, 2018, 01:37 PM:

This is a matter of living in the moment: for all we know 20 years from now it will become completely impossible for whatever reasons, so we may as well enjoy it today.

(Then again, about 35 years ago somebody told me it would be all gone in FIVE years! -but I've shot two rolls of film in 2018!)

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on February 26, 2018, 03:06 PM:

In the words of Private Fraser 'We're all DOOOMED!'
Get a grip you negative people. We will always find a way to keep them going. In the most part it's only mechanics and there are a lot of clever model engineers who can make repairs or make spare parts. We just need to find them and there are also inventive members amongst us that can improvise or cannibalise.
Anyway - how many of us project films every day - or even every week? So on that assumption it's going to take a long, long time to wear out our beloved machines.
In the words of Churchill - 'Keep buggering on'.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 26, 2018, 03:25 PM:

Absolutely Terry! I think Steve's estimate of 20 years is way too low. I have a 1922 Pathe Baby that still runs like new. But admittedly top end Super 8 sound projectors are much more complex, and the sound head wear is the biggest problem, But, even there, the heads on my GS1200 show no signs of wear after 40 years!
Ultimately, where there's a will there's a way to keep these machines running for the forseeable future.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 26, 2018, 03:50 PM:

It's an extremely rough estimate for sure!

-all I know is in 20 years I'll be 76!

(I'm still working on what happened to my twenties!)

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 26, 2018, 04:31 PM:

You and me both Steve, by the way, i have corrected my spelling, sorry about that [Embarrassed]

Yes i think with three HD1200s and a few other other machines i hope we have enough to keep us going.
i think if anyone in the hobby in the mid 90s had said how strong this hobby would be in 2018 i think quite a few, (me included) would not have believed it. [Wink]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 26, 2018, 05:05 PM:

S'okay, Tom!

We're actually kind of proud of our "K", after all we've earned it!

-we're about 4 generations now without a single Pharmacist being able to find our prescriptions on the first try!

"K-L-A-R-E!!!"

"I looked all though the 'C's but didn't find it..."

"Siiiiiiiiigh...."

Posted by Daniel Macarone (Member # 5102) on February 26, 2018, 05:10 PM:

I sure do hope projectors will last many decades. One approach is to buy many parts and projectors and service/tune-up them now, then use them in rotation, so they all see a little use over the years. Of course, only some collectors can afford to buy a ton of projectors and parts.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 27, 2018, 11:31 AM:

Ya know Terry, you actually had a very good point!

I've noticed that our library now has these "printers" that actually "print' plastic (or otherwise) copies of whatever specs the computer is fed. These things fascinate me ...

So, how much more difficuklt would it be to "print" the assorted "cogs" and such for the interior of our beloved projectors?

I hope that the return to new Kodak super 8 film stocks won't just be a passing phase and that, perhaps, some company will actually get the gumption up to actually manufacture a brand new super 8 sound projector.

Hey! I wouls have thought that home movie film stock was a thing of the past and as Steve stated, he's already shot two rolls of it in this year, so new projectors aren't THAT much of a stretch! [Smile]

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on March 02, 2018, 08:06 PM:

Sensibly priced cine projectors on eBay with no faults sell for for very good money. I'd say that Eumig and Sankyo are the best quality ones commonly listed but even other brands fetch good prices. So, how come these, often nearly fifty year old machines, are being snapped up if cine is obsolete?

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