8mm Forum: Happening All Over Again!

This is topic Happening All Over Again! in forum 8mm films for sale/trade/wanted at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 09, 2015, 07:42 AM:

Ah well, the dust has just about settled since the last print that was sold on e bay UK of The Derann print Star Wars for over £1000, and wouldn't you just know it....
it appears to be happening all over again, this time from Germany.

Still no screen shots I notice.

Let the battle commence! [Big Grin]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251870931574?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageNam e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Posted by Nigel Higgins (Member # 4312) on March 09, 2015, 09:57 AM:

Crazy i just found some old film lists from 1999-2001 and paul foster had a secondhand derann star wars for £169.00 on one of them how times have changed .

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 09, 2015, 10:02 AM:

I bet you wish, like me, you had bought it from him now though Nigel. [Wink]

Posted by Phillip R Campey (Member # 3942) on March 09, 2015, 03:09 PM:

It's going to go even crazier because the guy who I have just bought a really nice print of preditor from is putting a full length print of Alien on ebay which I believe are very hard to get your hands on.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 09, 2015, 04:22 PM:

Bring it on Phillip! [Wink]

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on March 09, 2015, 04:50 PM:

Already half way there Andrew, and still 5 days to go, its seems the lack of any screen shots makes no difference to this film, just bid away.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 09, 2015, 06:03 PM:

Only for those with very deep pockets though Paul. [Big Grin]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 10, 2015, 02:11 PM:

I tell you folks, we have been in the financial dog house for well over three years, so I am SOOO GLAD that I was able to secure my STAR WARS prints when I did, as I certainly couldn't afford them anymore ...

(and, if I ever DID have to sell them, at least it's something I could make my money back on, plus more over the top!)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 10, 2015, 02:29 PM:

Keep all the original Derann boxes and spools, keep it spotlessly clean and never scratch it, keep all original leaders and tails as original with no splices. If yours matches this description Osi, you're onto a winner!

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 12, 2015, 04:45 PM:

To be fair if you have a first run Star Wars Derann print in mint condition. Either enjoy watching it with your family and friends. Making sure you use a projector that will never scratch your precious film collection.

It is now becoming extremely hard to find mint prints in any formats these days. Guess it's all down to supply and demand.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on March 12, 2015, 04:56 PM:

even when you find them, you carn't get your hands on them !!!!.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 12, 2015, 06:13 PM:

Mine are Robert..so what does that tell you about a Bauer T610, a Eumig S938 or indeed a Beaulieu 708el CD Stereo!

Maybe, not so bad after all eh Robert!!

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 09:24 AM:

Unfortunately not much as not everyone has a good well maintained projectors these days like you do Andrew. Also the three makes you mention all have its good points and bad points generally down to the design of the projector and manufacture.

Does any of these projectors have a safety cutoff if the film breaks or malfunctions incorrectly ? It's something to think about when running prints worth thousands.

[ March 13, 2015, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Robert Tucker ]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 11:38 AM:

You are a Bauer expert Robert. You will surely be aware that if the drive belt snaps then the whole machine including the lamp justs shuts down.

No damage can be done to the film on these. Also I dont know of any Super8mm print that is worth thousands.

[ March 13, 2015, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 12:02 PM:

It's not so much a belt breaking on a Bauer as you describe , but that most automatic thread projectors which are the norm in the super 8 world can and will damage your film period. A prime example is your post on your Beaulieu issue.

I much prefer manual thread machines but once again it's all down to personal preference at the end of the day.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 13, 2015, 12:29 PM:

My first day Derann print is literally mint. If my memory serves me, I bought this off of Paul Foster, who maintained that he had bought this on the first day and had it signed (the boxes, of course) by David Prowse, who was reportedly there on that first day!

The "1977" Cineavision scope version isn't quite as immaculate, but in scratch free condition. I loved it so much, I actually decided to leave it in it's original format, on 400ft reels and leader, instead of combining and putting it on 4X600ft, (I can't use 1200ft, not with my Eumig's and Chinon's).

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 02:43 PM:

The "prime example" Robert, you point out was, if you read the passage, a fault.

Why was the fault present? For the reasons stated had you read it in full which was bad handling of the lower guide in a past life.

With no abuse, an owner who understands the consequences of doing things the wrong way, with someone who treats the machine with the care it deserves...the guide and most else works for a very long time just perfectly, just like a Rolls Royce does ironically.

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 04:29 PM:

Andrew, i think your're really missing the point somewhat? if you did not have that automatic thread part on the projector, you would not have that problem. I trust it scratched one of your prints before you noticed it?

You will also notice that the way the automatic thread is designed you can easily miss feed a film with out noticing it. And feed the film from the bottom of the sprocket sprung shoe and not where the arrow is pointing to feed the film.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 04:36 PM:

I am totally baffled+?+??

The arrow on the above photo is pointing to the nut. Nothing to do with where the film is threaded.

I do not have the feintest idea of what your point is amongst any of that?

This machine threads flawlessly the only realistic way you can.
It is almost idiot proof in that respect therefore I cannot possibly see how even a novice could thread this wrong with a basic capacity of following the clearly written instruction manual.

I truly believe you would benefit from reading all the past posts regarding the one time scratch issue on this. Coming in late has clearly led you down the wrong garden path with this one.

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 04:52 PM:

Come Andrew isn't this forum for everyone to share their views or do we have problem?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 04:55 PM:

Oh I am too tired to continue with this, it's going nowhere sadly.

Quite what any of this has to do with a print of Star Wars on eBay is beyond me.

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 05:04 PM:

Precisely Andrew!

Osi i was actually at that event at the Watermans Art Center. It was a wonderful day. Meeting Mr Prowse, enjoying watching Star Wars in the Watermans Art Center cinema.

And seeing Derann having loads and loads of Techno ITC films to sell along with a a brand new Fujicascope SD-Auto projector from 1980. Now i wonder how many people bought these on the day?

Posted by Jonathan Trevithick (Member # 3066) on March 15, 2015, 06:41 AM:

Back on topic. So, it went for just a tad over the £1000 mark.....

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 16, 2015, 03:47 AM:

Don't you just Love eBay [Big Grin]

now I wonder if Empire or Return will eventually warrant a high price in future just like Star Wars.

It's just a shame a better master wasn't available to use at the time for Star Wars. But thanks to the Derann's legacy we should be most grateful.

Posted by Jason Gronn (Member # 3921) on March 22, 2015, 06:17 PM:

It must be Star Wars fever, l just found on eBay Germany a very nice print for a mere €1450.
This hobby is getting out of hand if you ask me.
I don't mind paying good money for a good title but really 1450 for a second hand print which did not even cost that when new.
Now l know it's all about demand etc but how do people expect this hobby to stay alive and encourage new people to it when collectors are demanding prices like this, however l will pay that for a new print but that's different all together.
Maybe I should wait a few more months and sell mine for $3000 and see what happens.
Well that's my rant for the day.

Jason
[Big Grin]

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on March 22, 2015, 06:34 PM:

I have a feeling that the high prices may be due to these NOT being the Special editions. Star Wars fans always complain about not having high quality copies of the originals - even that the DVDs use Laser disc transfers not new ones!

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 22, 2015, 07:52 PM:

Well they pop up on a regualr basis on and off ebay. Plenty of them sold and collector numbers are dwindling.

There must be a point things level off and get realistic.

I now a chap from the states sold his copy to a forum member not so long ago for $150.

Best Mark.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 22, 2015, 08:50 PM:

quote:
I now a chap from the states sold his copy to a forum member not so long ago for $150.

Yes I know him too Mark...because the print is with me now [Big Grin]

along with (F/L) King Kong, 3 L&H, French Connection, 007, 3 Hitchcoks + Scope lens & Bracket....

I never owned F/L until this offer came. I guessed they will stay with me "'till death do us part"... [Big Grin]

After getting these F/Ls, I did buy some Derann F/Ls but to be honest (God, please forgive my sin), I rarely watch them but DVD instead, since watching F/L needs extra effort for the preparation while my kids do not have that patience.

I keep them just to be at the same league with you guys... [Cool]

.... that is also the reason of owning 2 GS1200 and 2 GS800 while I am using ST-1200 now or even Chinon 330MV... [Razz]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 22, 2015, 11:28 PM:

Does F/L means Full Lenght ? What kind of "extra preparation" does that need ?

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 23, 2015, 12:03 AM:

Dom,

Kids just like everything quick. For showing an F/L (yes it means Full Length), I have to clean the films (make sure no scratch), adjust the lens, preparing the scope lens (if it is scope print), changing the reels etc...

Kids don't like this stuff.... [Big Grin]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 23, 2015, 01:44 AM:

Ah, you mean that they ask you to Watch a specific film and they want that at once [Smile]

Otherwise, it is the same preparation to project a short than a feature. Maybe (depending of the age of the kids of course) you could involve them : one winds the film while you clean it, another helps you cleaning the projector, the other one tells you ok or not when you adjust the scope lens and so on.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 23, 2015, 02:07 AM:

My sons are 8 and 10, not that old enough to touch my toys.. [Big Grin]

Although they want something instant, one of them has made a statement who was going to keep my collection in the future. The other boy said to keep my train collection. I was left with my LPs collection... [Wink]

The other thing that I cannot enjoy fully when projecting films with my kids that I have to divide my concentration between film, the kids and projectors.

I wish I would have a dedicated projectionist at home.... [Razz]

(labor is cheap here...)

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 23, 2015, 07:03 AM:

The one who said he would carry on your film collection deserves an extra part of dessert tonight !

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 23, 2015, 09:00 AM:

Terminator 2, the Derann print. Now making a bid for Star Wars prices:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Terminator-II-Derann -Super-8-complete-feature-/141613816357?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item20f8d75a25

I have a print of this. Very enjoyable but not perfect. There are a number of printed-in faults like orange flashes and a 'bubbling' effect sometimes. The stripe is grey and the mono sound is very low level. I paid under £300. Were there better prints or were they all like this and do members think it would take a stereo re-record?

[ March 23, 2015, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Steven J Kirk ]

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on March 23, 2015, 11:02 AM:

I remember seeing the Star Wars print for sale for $400 when it was new and it was on the LA Films list in the 80's. I use to think that was such a high amount. And then it was on a few lists going for around $250-400 Used in the late 90's to 2000's. Then Derann closed and then all film prices started going crazy.
I blame Derann's demise for such high prices. [Smile]

But then again they printed up all the great Disney's so I thank them too. [Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 23, 2015, 05:33 PM:

Steven, the grey stripe is extremely hit and miss when it comes to re recording on it. Proceed with caution if you do decide to do it on such a valued print as this.

Try a few different trials on your leaders and tails first, this should give you a good understanding of whether or not you feel a decent recording can be achieved. It will never match what you could expect doing the same on brown striped prints and if you did go ahead and try, then I would try and perfect in one run if at all possible.

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on March 23, 2015, 10:07 PM:

Steven-I had a print that Lance re-recorded and it turned out great. It had the grey stripe. Sold it for far less than what that's going for.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 24, 2015, 12:45 AM:

Good News Larry! Steven should have a very good chance then all being well. [Smile]

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 24, 2015, 08:27 AM:

Thanks for that on Terminator 2. I will proceed with caution. I am going to get the capacitors done on one machine and make it the recording machine. But that is not something to undertake myself so it will take a while.

Posted by David Watson (Member # 3614) on March 25, 2015, 03:19 PM:

WOW! over a thousand pounds for a copy of Star Wars,
I have one of the ten prints of 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind'
special edition full length feature in scope that Derann managed to
print before it was quickly withdrawn because copyright of copyright
complications...I wonder how much I could get for that ?

Posted by Jonathan Trevithick (Member # 3066) on March 25, 2015, 04:13 PM:

I think what we've got to remember is that Star Wars not only appeals to the super 8 collector but also to its massive fan base. I am sure some of these prints get snapped up by fans who don't even have projectors but love the idea of possessing a film copy of it in their collections.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on March 25, 2015, 04:32 PM:

David, if you put close encounters on Ebay, with a reserve( if you want to sell it that is), I would be surprised if it didn't reach that figure, and more. One did sell on the forum some time back for around £900.00 - £1000.00, that was a fixed price, it didn't take long to sell it. I would definitely bid on it, for sure.

Posted by Phillip R Campey (Member # 3942) on March 25, 2015, 04:50 PM:

The problem is with these stupid prices is that you would not dare run it through your projector for fear it would get damaged. Where is the fun in that, I love watching my films on super 8, it takes me back to my childhood. I used to love inviting my friends round and watch a few films. Now with digital it is effortless and disposable and not eventful at all. Sorry for rambling but I just love film.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 25, 2015, 06:00 PM:

With the slightly dodgey even holey as the bumps get taken off grey Derann stripe its like a long run of grinding/snad paper on your sound heads as has been said before, a lot of the disneys are on it as well.

You really need to keep any of these filmgaurded up and never let them anywhere near to a Eumig soundhead.

Best Mark.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 25, 2015, 08:00 PM:

quote:
....you would not dare run it through your projector for fear it would get damaged. Where is the fun in that,

Phillip...the same hype also is happening with vinyl collecting scene. The new kids on the vinyl collector gang just buy vinyl for the sake of having it not to play it. So many times I found they proud saying that their vinyls were still sealed!

There is no fun in that!

I collect super 8mm films, vinyls and train models. I played them a lot because I knew I would not bring them to my grave when I died.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 26, 2015, 04:00 AM:

Mark, you say a lot of the Disney Derann prints are with the grey stripe. Out of the 17 I have,if you include the two repeated titles I have, only one is printed on grey pasted stripe stock. All of the other 16 are on either laminated brown stock or one or two brown pasted stock.

What proportion of the Disney prints would say are on the grey pasted stock would you say as it would appear from this that I have been very unusually very lucky somehow?

It would be really interesting to see what others have out there and what type of stripe theirs are on.

The Disney's for the most part when initially released were in the era of when Derann did still use a lot of Kodak or Agfa laminated stock still as it was still readily available in 93 to around 98 if memory serves me correctly.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 26, 2015, 06:47 AM:

Hi Andrew its luck of the draw Ive heard of a lot of the disneys with the duff stripe.

At first when they were trying thoer best with it you often got very lumpy stripe, these would get knocked off by your heads and so you then had a holey stripe main or balance.

It improved alot but each batch varied abit right up until the end, often you`ll gert one the blance stripe comes and goes, or the main gets thinner and widder even in to the picture area.

Even the stripe thats pretty OK sometimes if you look closely you can see how uneven it is still.

It was a bit the same as the printing once the labs let the super 8 chap go, it varied greatly in the last 8 years or so, more towards the end.

The colour and great negs on the disneys mask the blueiness well but a lot of stuff in the later years as you`

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 26, 2015, 06:55 AM:

Hi Andrew its luck of the draw I`ve heard of a lot of the disneys with the duff stripe and sound issues.

At first when they were trying their best with it you often got very lumpy stripe, these would get knocked off by your heads and so you then had a holey stripe main or balance.

It improved quite a lot but each batch varied a bit right up until the end, often you`ll get one the blance stripe comes and goes, or the main gets thinner and widder even in to the picture area.Also thinker and thinner depth wise.

Even some of the stripe that looks pretty OK sometimes if you look closely you can see how uneven/lumpy it is still.

It was a bit the same as the printing once the labs let the super 8 chap go, it varied greatly in the last 8 years or so, more towards the end.

The colour and great negs of the disneys mask the blueiness well but a lot of stuff in the later years as you`ll know where very that way, but still nice and sharp usually, though each printing batch varied.

I found odd batches were quite grainey to.

The poly kodak used from about the end of 2003 is also a lot more unsteady running as well, sometimes it also suffered from warping as well, especially if too tight would when new and if not 1st run for a good while.It could go a bit sticky.

But any films from that era, you need to check the picture but also the stripe.

When you get a rough stripe print they are at your heads like no ones business.

Best Mark.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 27, 2015, 11:53 AM:

I think perhaps you may have just overlooked my point slightly on this one Mark, which was to say, that the vast overwhelming majority of Disney Derann prints that I have so far are on Brown Laminated stock, not pasted stock, be it grey or brown.

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