8mm Forum: Looking For : "THE SNOWMAN"

This is topic Looking For : "THE SNOWMAN" in forum 8mm films for sale/trade/wanted at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on December 19, 2016, 02:42 AM:

Looking for this Super 8 "The Snowman" perfect/excellent condition..........

Phil

[ August 27, 2017, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 19, 2016, 02:52 AM:

One sold to a collector here only a matter of weeks ago.
(The Snowman)

It was advertised on ebay UK and refreshingly, it seemingly was in superb shape and fetched only a modest amount Phil.

They do surface occasionally Phil, so just pounce when you see one. That's the secret with these things, that and a realistic tolerance to an odd imperfection or two.

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on December 19, 2016, 03:02 AM:

Yes Andrew and I consider SNOWMAN as a great animated item....

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 19, 2016, 03:15 AM:

I still love it also Phil.

Christmas personified! 😊😊

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on December 19, 2016, 03:52 AM:

Yes Andrew, I was telling this is not a urgent situation but...........as I have no snow in the garden at this time,I could need it in a rush !! [Big Grin]

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on December 19, 2016, 08:35 AM:

I remember "The Snowman" was available as Mono or Stereo sound as well....

Is the Stereo Version definitly much better than Mono ?

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 19, 2016, 09:14 AM:

Phil, I have the stereo version which I purchased from Jean-Marc Tussaint a few years ago. The print is perfect, very sharp, and excellent pastel colors. The stereo sound was very good, but my particular print exhibited some WOW. So I did a re-record from the DVD using my Eumig S938, and ended up with a great stereo re-record. So if you come across just the mono version I would not let that deter you from purchasing it, as a stereo re-record of this particular film is not hard to do - there is NO talking! [Big Grin]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 19, 2016, 09:19 AM:

That is an impossible question to answer in all honesty Phil.

There can be so much difference in the recording standards of these prints at times depending on when it was originally purchased, any given day etc etc.

I purchased mine as a stereo print and it was ok, but the difference recording it again makes from a digital master, is unbelievable!

I don't believe from the original tracks supplied by Derann, it would make that much of a difference as to which one you HAVE to find.

Either type will have the necessary balance track provided to allow you to be able to give it a far superior recording than it undoubtedly came with.

No lip sync on this one to concern yourself with, keep it within +/- .2 of a second throughout and it'll look fine, the easiest of any film to record again.

Timings are not AS critical as recording a film with lots and lots of dialogue within it.

BTW, Paul's advice above is of course, absolutely spot on but I would also add, even when it is far more difficult to do on "talky" films such as Hello Dolly for example,.. it is still ALWAYS ALWAYS worth the effort required to achieve a decent result. There is simply no comparison between what CAN be achieved and what IS to begin with.

This even applies to the best of them on pre laminated striped stock. The better it is to begin with, the better you can now make it!

It gives any film, but particularly any film with any musicality attachment, an entire new lease of life!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on December 19, 2016, 09:38 AM:

Paul, we also have the stereo version which like yours also suffered with a little bit of wow, but only for a short section.
We had it re recorded by Derann twice but it ws always the same when it was returned. We have lived with it ever since but maybe one day we will have it re recorded [Wink]

Great picture though.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 19, 2016, 09:41 AM:

In quieter times Tom, I will do this for you if like, it is dead dead easy to achieve superb results on this one

This would take me a third of the time I spent piecing up Vidar's 400ft digest, because it was a digest!
Digests are the worse of any to record again. Often not worth the time and effort it takes to do them imo.

You won't believe the difference it makes though Tom, honestly!! [Wink]

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on December 19, 2016, 09:58 AM:

Hi Paul , Tom, Andrew

A WOW ? Does it means sound accelerate / decelerate, or Audio level increase / decrease , or an extra noise is overlapping intermitently ?

What projector did you use when observing phenomena ?
Did you visualy check sound strips for concerned area ?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 19, 2016, 10:08 AM:

Wow as in wow and flutter is what was meant Phil.
Wow can be easily detected by even a reasonably sensitive human ear as can flutter.

If wow is present, it matters none which machine you play it back on. Even a CD machine can do nothing to smooth out something that was inherent to begin with from either the master material utilized or the machinery to record it with initially.

I use a T610 btw Phil, for all of my recording work except duplicating a balance track from a main.

Then the RM 8008 produces the best and easiest results of any machine, I find.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 19, 2016, 04:14 PM:

WOW is a fluctuation in sonic pitch, usually due to a cyclic variation in film speed over the sound head, caused by mechanical eccentricity of the sound capstan, or fluctuating tension on the film take up. It can originate at the sound recording stage when the film is first being recorded by the manufacturer, so that the recording itself permanently has WOW present. It can also be totally a problem caused by the projector, some projectors apparently being much more prone to WOW than others.
In the case of The Snowman the evidence suggests that the WOW is on the sound track as recorded by Derann, and the only solution is a re-record. Thankfully, the DVD is free of any WOW, and as Andrew has said, a stellar stereo re-recording is not at all hard to do on this particular film. And well worth while, as the music and singing of Walking In the Air is just beautiful.
The Snowman is an 8mm film to be treasured. Can't wait to see my print once more on Christmas Eve.

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on December 19, 2016, 05:00 PM:

Hi Paul,

Thanks for this very informative precision, I am figuring out what it is...

Yes , then I don't understand when it was still available from Derann, I haven't order it .....I suppose Derann sold a lot of this title

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 19, 2016, 05:03 PM:

It was available over a long period of time Phil (relatively).

Not something that could be said for every new release, not by any means.

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on December 19, 2016, 05:04 PM:

You have to make sure you get the correct DVD as all the new ones in the UK have a different opening and only have the original Raymond Briggs opening as a special feature and wont play the whole film with it (I think). Recently when broadcast on Channel 4 (in UK), they used the David Bowie intro. It seems no one wants you to see the original anymore. Thank god we can on Super 8.

Graham S

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 19, 2016, 05:24 PM:

Good point Graham but I have the original digital master material on file if anyone ever needed a copy to re record this again.

I am sure others have the same. [Wink]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on December 20, 2016, 03:56 AM:

Thats a very kind offer Andrew, i would of course insist on paying you something for your time to. [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 20, 2016, 04:13 AM:

I didn't expect anything last time Tom, so I wouldn't for anything I'd do for you, of course Tom.

It a Labour of Love nowadays our hobby, and we are all in it together!

Well that's my take on it anyhow.
[Smile]

Anyhow, has anyone got a decent print of The Snowman for Phil, that they would like to cash in on?

Surely there must be one?

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on December 20, 2016, 09:29 AM:

Thanks for your help Andrew !!! [Wink]

To be note I am away from Dec26th until JAN4th, with no Web available, so I can't check any message for this period.

[ December 20, 2016, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on August 26, 2017, 12:18 PM:

Hello Folks,

Still looking for Snowman , "reasonable" price please.....

Thanks

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on September 14, 2017, 01:16 PM:

Still Looking for......

Thanks in advance

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 15, 2017, 11:47 AM:

Beautiful film and a great print from Derann. This was one case where I felt that Derann's stereo prints really spoke for themselves, (at least, in the case of my print, the stereo sound is very good!)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 15, 2017, 01:15 PM:

If a title still made it onto laminated stock, they usually all are around that era.

Though perfectly acceptable, it's amazing just how much better they can sound though.
I've done my own of this title and the quality of sound is really incredible given the musicality of this track throughout.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 16, 2017, 09:38 AM:

My Derann print of The Snowman had good stereo sound but also had annoying WOW associated with it. Like Andrew, I opted to do a stereo re-record from the DVD, using my Eumig S938, and got a superb sounding track. So now the film not only looks wonderful but sounds amazing as well.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on September 16, 2017, 11:22 AM:

Mine was muffled and dull sounding stereo. I re-recorded mine too. Only 2 Derann prints I found had good stereo sound and that was "Lady and the Tramp"', and "Gremlins".

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 16, 2017, 12:04 PM:

Jungle Book was excellent also on my own print, as originally recorded by Derann.

Speed is decent also considering its on pasted stripe. Die Hard was very low and hissy until recorded again.
Now it's very good indeed.

Out of the laminated era, Gremlins, Police Acedamy 2, Never Say Never, The Jolsen Story, The Wizard of Oz, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and plenty of others I can instantly think of, were all perfectly satisfactory straight from Derann.
Nearly all of these however were only recorded on the main track so it's pretty much as you'd expect really.

[ September 16, 2017, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on September 17, 2017, 04:53 AM:

Of course , "Snowman" in DVD will be a very good alternative.

(Does it comes in BlueRay too?)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 17, 2017, 08:01 AM:

Never seen it on Blu Ray Phil but it might do I suppose linked with the newer productions of these classics.

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on October 07, 2017, 09:01 AM:

Still Looking for.......

Posted by Greg Perry (Member # 5177) on November 26, 2017, 10:10 PM:

Phil,

There is a print of "The Snowman" on ebay, perhaps you have seen it, but if not, here it is:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THE-SNOWMAN-600FT-SUPER-8MM-COLOUR-SOUND/192377082105?hash=item2cca9150f9:g:km8AAOSwFb5aGz9-

(Not my listing....)

Kind Regards,
Greg

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on November 27, 2017, 01:49 AM:

Hello Greg,

Thanks for this information (I had not seen that as I hardly track super 8 on Ebay)!!

I am "keeping an eye" on this auction. The print is showing a green line, so I hope price will stay reasonable by the way.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on December 03, 2017, 11:32 PM:

The auction finished for about US$166, which in my opinion is too high considering the scratch.

But, as you know, a film is worth whatever someone's willing to pay for it!

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on December 04, 2017, 03:58 AM:

I agree with you Bill, 100% !!

My own Phylosophy is " Getting Nothing is better than getting a one eye horse".

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on December 04, 2017, 04:55 AM:

Going slightly off subject has anyone compared the Super 8mm Derann print with the Blu-Ray disc on a projector ?

If the answer is yes what were your findings ?

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on December 11, 2017, 05:34 PM:

David, I've only encountered the Snowman DVD release. It's grainy enough that I suspect it was shot on 16mm film. The Derann print has a rather acceptable level of grain, so the two are quite comparable, with the exception that the film has less contrast. But that fits the visual style quite nicely.

Posted by Ricky Daniels (Member # 95) on December 12, 2017, 02:16 PM:

Another....

eBay listing...

Not mine!
Good luck.
Rick

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on December 12, 2017, 03:58 PM:

as it happens, this super 8 release by Derann was the first time this title could be enjoyed as a film because it was of course a television programme made by channel 4 [Wink]

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on December 12, 2017, 04:46 PM:

Doesn't the Derann release have the author doing the intro not Bowie as on the DVD?I seem to remember reading that in a review, I only have the Walking in the Air extract.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on December 12, 2017, 06:05 PM:

I am going to be a Xmas party pooper and state I hate THE SNOWMAN on TV or Film. That bloody Walking In The Air song really leaves me cold and just bugs me big time. So
BAH HUMBUG ! [Wink]

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on December 12, 2017, 10:09 PM:

Brian

The Derann 600ft prints have Raymond Briggs doing the introduction. David Bowie was used to push the film into the american market...they needed a big name, hence David Bowie is on the VHS pre-recorded tapes of long ago as with the later DVDs.

I have both the stereo and mono 600ft prints, and I must say both are very good. The print quality and sound is certainly better on the 600ft version than the very full 200ft Walking in the Air that I also have.

Dont be put of with a mono print if one pops up. The one I have sounds fine to me. The 16mm prints of The Snowman does not have the Walking in the Air by Peter Auty, only a instrumental version, which in my view is a pity.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on December 13, 2017, 12:40 AM:

David [Big Grin]

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on December 13, 2017, 02:56 AM:

I remeber buying a print from Derann in December 95 for 29.99 plus post.Those were the days !!!

But we missed the postman and they took it to a sorting office 30 miles away in the middle of town, around an hour usually as rural here.

But I was so desperate to get it we drove in especially.

It was absolutely mint, on kodak LPP and really lovely.

Seems like just the other day, how it goes etc.

Hope you get one.

Best Mark.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on December 13, 2017, 03:26 AM:

Tom ... I know , I know but the blinking thing is on telly nearly every year and I have to suffer it if the grandkids are around. I would not even consider giving it shelf space on any format. The grandkids did ask me to buy a copy for a bigscreen presentation this year which is the reason why I am asking if the DVD or Blu-Ray version is any good.

So far I have turned a 'deaf ear ' on this one ... BUT ! [Big Grin]

I wonder if I should try and track down a 16 mill print as Graham states that the Walking In The Air song is not on it but an instrumental version only. I also wonder if the grandkids would notice its absence.
[Smile]

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on December 13, 2017, 04:12 AM:

We can't like all the same things David so i get it,I love the Snowman personally and will be showing it again this year,it's a sort of tradition in my house.

The 16mm prints are instrumental only on the song parts,it was due to copyright at the time I think,it's still a good part of the film but the super 8 song versions for me are better. The DVD versions are very good too,can't comment on bluray as I've not seen it,Mark

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on December 13, 2017, 04:19 AM:

Thanks for that information Mark.

Joking aside i rather like the animation its the song i dislike.

So a 16 mill copy might suit me just fine. [Smile]

Posted by Kurt Gardner (Member # 440) on December 15, 2017, 03:49 PM:

I agree with Graham. I have the mono version and it sounds so dynamic that I don't even miss the stereo, especially having read here that it's got issues.

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