This is topic The Fox and the hound Disney L.P.P. in forum 8mm films for sale/trade/wanted at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 04, 2018, 12:14 PM:
We're needing to raise money for a new Van, so it starts with letting this one go ...
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 11, 2018, 12:01 PM:
Happy to see that my print of this sold, (as expected), and my print didn't have "doctored screenshots" like the print of this very same super 8 release that just sold in the UK as well. [Smile]
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on December 11, 2018, 01:02 PM:
I've not noticed the eBay seller of the UK print using doctored pictures,he's a forum member so might comment on that,he's a decent seller and I've dealt with him over the years without any problems,certainly not aware of this selling tactic,Mark
Posted by Jason Smith (Member # 5055) on December 11, 2018, 03:53 PM:
Osi, I have not seen the other auction you are referring to.

I was initially interested in your print but the lack of screenshots on your auction deterred me from bidding. If possible, I would love to see screenshots of your films being projected in the future.

Congrats on your auction.

[ December 12, 2018, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Jason Smith ]
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 12, 2018, 11:57 AM:
Jason ...

I had that same print, and i noticed that in those early in the film shots (Big Mama owl discovering the little baby fox), that, where the actual print is slightly over-bright, (with skies that are almost white) the screenshots show decent blues. that is not how the actual image from the film is. I'm sure that the person who buys the film will be able to verify this (the person who bought the UK print, that is).

Now, if there was an additional Uk film seller that released this on super 8 (besides Derann and that Uk film seller) and this print that sold in the Uk was actually from an additional seller, that i will retract my statement ...

However, i only know of three printings of this title total ...

There was Derann
There was the addtional UK seller (from hat i have heard from a number of other super 8 collector in the Uk, it was perry's films, way back in the day) ...

... and there was an Italian printing ...

but the seller said in they're auction that this was a printing of the title from a seller in the UK, and it's not Derann, SOOO, unless there was another super 8 seller that did printings in the UK of this title besides Derann and Perry's (?), then it IS the same rpint runs as my print ...

... and, if so, I can personally confirm that the image of the film does NOT look like that. [Smile]
Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on December 12, 2018, 02:13 PM:
I am the recent UK seller of the print spoken about here - I have not commented before or posted at all on the forums for sometime as following a recent operation I am not well enough to sit for long periods at my computer desk let alone respond to ridiculous accusations like this, but for your information Mr. Osgood - my auction pictures were taken using my Lenovo pad's webcam as I found it easier to use than my usual small digital camera due to currently shaky hands. They are simply a representation of what the buyer should expect of the film, and as with all digital imaging will vary depending on the camera used, the monitor used to watch it on, resolution settings etc.

I can assure you that other than edge cropping to remove excess frame area around the film frame there was no other 'doctoring' as you call it.

The film does indeed come from the same source as yours but I decided not to mention it as it may have caused some copyright issues even now 30 odd years on and the originator is a dear long time personal friend of mine.

As you are aware from film review posts on here and other film forums any print can vary from different print runs from the same manufacturer and I am sure this is the same in this case. I have only ever owned this one Fox & The Hound print, but have owned multiple prints of many Derann Disneys that have all looked subtly and in some cases extremely different from print run to print run despite coming from the same source.

You seem to think you have the unique expertise to know every single one of these prints so well that you can claim this could not possibly be from the same source but I can assure it is and you are wrong from the beginning to end of your assumptions.

I am genuinely pleased your sale went through so perhaps you could now close this subject and show me the common courtesy to congratulate me on my sale too.

Posted by Greg Perry (Member # 5177) on December 12, 2018, 06:11 PM:
FWIW, I have bought several items from Kevin Clark in the past and have been completely satisfied with everything.

As many others can also attest--and I hope they chime in here-- Kevin Clark's reputation for complete honesty, value and excellent quality of all his sale items is such that there simply is no way anyone/Osi should be speculating about the legitimacy of the Fox and the Hound film. Beyond the "for sale" stuff, Kevin has helped out many film collectors with a wide variety of things by sharing his expertise freely.

Not sure what you were hoping to accomplish there Osi by jumping to conclusions without sufficient information...
Posted by John Fields Smith (Member # 5879) on December 12, 2018, 06:43 PM:
I have bought many super 8 sound films from Kevin and he is a great dealer and gentleman,i will not hear a bad thing said about him.Kevin i hope you are feeling better,regards John. [Smile]
Posted by Jason Smith (Member # 5055) on December 13, 2018, 06:57 AM:
Osi, my initial post was meant to be an indirect suggestion that you post photos on your auction. I would have been interested in bidding(and consequently helping you get a higher price) on your print but didn't see any photos except a picture of the movie poster.

While I haven't seen the photos, you are referring to I thought it was odd that you would criticize another eBay auction that had photos since I didn't see any photos on your auction.

I along with probably many others here are in debt to Kevin Clark. I have bought and traded with him on several occasions in the past three years.
Posted by Keith Ashfield (Member # 741) on December 13, 2018, 07:58 AM:
I have not posted here for some considerable time but always "monitor" the forum. I have to echo the sentiments of others on this forum with regards to Kevin.

He is a "Prince amongst men", a genuine gentleman and a person that I have bought many superb films from, all of which have been described upon sale, with impecable detail and every one worth the asking price

Kevin would not use a "dishonest" description or "doctored" screenshots on anything that he sells - with his reputation, just his name alone, will ensure a "trouble-free" purcahse.

Kevin, I'm sorry to hear you have been "under the weather" but, sincerely, I hope you are well on the way to recovery.

[ December 13, 2018, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Keith Ashfield ]
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 13, 2018, 11:17 AM:
I still stand by my assessment. As Klark also asserts, I have the same print and having screened it many times before having sold my copy, the print IS a good deal brighter in image (perhaps do to it being, after all a dupe and not an original negative from Derann) than is shown in the screenshots. Also, the print has more grain as well, but that I must say, may not show up as much in screenshots.

Oh, Jason, I never answered you're actual post. I rarely take screenshots as, my screenshots NEVER look as good as the print. I have a fairly old school camera and it makes EVERYTHING (even with that "white balance") look either slightly reddish or very red, even with L.P.P. prints.

I had actually thought of taking screenshots from Klarks auction and putting it on mine, being from same super 8 print maker, but seeing the screenshots, i chose not to, as I trongly felt it didn't represent the print, honestly.

Now, whoever bought that print, (and hopefully, they are a member of this forum), if you can take screenshots of the film, projected, and put up the screenshots from the actual auction, (as the buyer would have that auction still in they're ebay), alongside you're projected screenshots, and the print is actually as sold, then I will happily and humbly apologize and state that I am wrong. I certainly can't be more fair than that.

However, above all else, sorry to hear that you are ailing, Kevin, get better soon.
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on December 13, 2018, 01:10 PM:
That still doesn't take away the fact that you stated the screenshots were doctored when it's been cleared up from Kevin who states they haven't.

Nice to see Keith posting on here again,how's the GS1200?

Glad your up and about Kevin after your op,Mark
Posted by Greg Perry (Member # 5177) on December 13, 2018, 01:26 PM:
I agree with Mark. Osi, you can’t suggest that a seller has “doctored” the images, when it is clearly a case of Lenovo camera limitations—similar to how YOU state your basic digital camera makes LPP prints look pink etc.

An apology is appropriate when you incorrectly accuse Mr. Clark of “doctoring” images. The word “doctoring” , in the context in which you used it, implies a deliberate attempt to alter images of a print to make it look different than it is and therefore mislead a buyer. Clearly, that is something Kevin hasn’t done, nor would he ever.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on December 13, 2018, 01:56 PM:
Kevin spends less time selling, than he does giving out great advice, and also various things for free to people to help them out etc etc.

I thought what Kevins print went for was a a really good buy for someone for the title it was too.

My nicest L+H feature in 30 years came from Kevin, plus lots of parts and help and so on.

Bottom line, Kevin, very kindly, and fairly, puts an aweful lot in to the hobby.

Best Mark.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on December 13, 2018, 02:53 PM:
Got to add that most of my top 16mm films and some Len's have come from Kevin. I cannot speak highly enough of the the service he gives and all the items are way above anything i expected.
In fact, i would be happy to purchase from him without wanting to see any screenshots, as all the prints i have are exactly, if not, better than the descriptions given to me in print.
All this, and not to mention the advice i have had is second to none.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 14, 2018, 11:22 AM:
I thought of something that might have caused a difference between my print and Kev's print ...

Being that "The Fox and The Hound" was originally released on 400ft reel, (at least, I'm pretty sure of that), there IS a possibility that perhaps an occasional reel of the film might go thru the labs and have different results for a specific reel (being printed to lightly) and that might cause a difference between reel one of my print and reel one of Kev's print. Just a thought.

There was a stark difference between our prints, that I'm sure of.

By the way, yesterdays posts reminded me of something. I'm not sure, but I think, when I first got back into film collecting, one of my first purchases ever on ebay, was from Kevin. Kev, maybe you can verify that or not. It was 2005 (I think) and I purchased two cartoons, on the same day. One was "Popeye Meets Sinbad the Sailor" and the 200ft one I can't remember the title, but I do remember that I was surprised as to how quickly they arrived.

I wonder how far back ebays records go. I'm really tempted to see if they can actually look back to the very beginning of my original ebay title "toac2001" and look at the first sales, just for curiosities sake. [Smile]
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on December 14, 2018, 01:07 PM:
Your still missing the point Osi,who cares about differences in your print or whoever's print,it's very clear that the pictures weren't doctored by Kevin but you still can't acknowledge it,Kevin has expressed his feelings very clearly and you have just glossed over it,,Mark

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