8mm Forum: Superman II

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Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on February 04, 2005, 07:08 PM:

This is, in my opinion, the best of the four Superman movies. Why it was never released in full length on super 8 is a mystery to me. It's action packed, and makes very good use of humor, as well as strong performances by all. With that said, I will proceed with the review [Smile]

.

Superman II was available in the following super 8 versions:

3 x 400 foot flat / letterboxed (unknown distributor)

2 x 600 foot plus 2 x 200 foot (extra scenes) (Derann Films)

Trailer (Jef Films)

I owned both digest versions, so I will review them both.

3 x 400 foot flat version:

This version was sold in the U.S. exclusively through L.A. Films (remember Larry Arpin?)

Each reel was about 18 to 20 minutes (very full). The quality varied. Some scenes were fully letterboxed, while others were only slightly letterboxed. Some scenes had very good color, while other scenes were sort of pale and grainy. The sound was consistantly good and stayed on track with the picture, with no sign of being home-dubbed.

The titles were cut down to a mere large "S", then "Superman II" and lasts about five seconds (with no score), then moves right into the Paris, France scene.

As far as contents go, this version did have alot of different scenes from the Derann scope version. I remember some of the extra scenes- the complete scene when the astronauts encounter the alien villains on the moon ("planet Houston?"). Also, more of the love story between Louis and Superman (eww [Razz]

) I think the scene were the town sherriff and deputy first encounter the aliens is there too, as well as the scene where the snake bites the female and she burns it up. Its been a long time since I've seen this version, so I don't remember everything.

Another draw back on this version was that there is no resolution with the truck driver. You see Clark Kent get pulverized by this guy, but the movie ends at Superman's fortress, with Lex Luther asking for a ride back. Then, the picture just goes dark! No "The End", no music, nothing but about ten feet of end leader.

Overall, I would rate this version a "C". There are a few good self contained clips that could be used as a short scene (Like the battle in Metropolis between Superman and the three villians) but as a digest, it just doesn't flow well. And without any score or credits at the beginning or end, it just feels wierd.

2 x 600 plus 2 x 200 foot cinemascope version

This version was released by Derann Films about two or three years after the above version (I think it was '86 or '87) and is much superior to the above version. The color and sound is very good, and the cinemascope is great.

This version starts out with the pre-credit scene in which the villains are judged guilty and imprisoned, then a partial credit scene, with score. Clark is told of Louis's assignment in Paris, France. Most of the bomb scene is shown, the villains are released, they land, Lex escapes from prison, Clark and Louis in Niagra Falls, Clark reveals his secret to Louis, he gives up his powers, gets beat up at the diner, villains take over small town, then the White House. Most of the street battle between Superman and the villians is intact (about 75 %). Then the final battle at Superman's fortress is about 95 % intact, then the scene where Clark kisses Louis back at the office and she forgets everything, then the "Sorry Mister President" scene, and Mr. Reeves does his trademark flying off into space and smiling. A little score and credits. the end.

Then, by popular demand, Derann was nice enough to release the complete opening credit scene (which basically tells the story of the first Superman movie in pictures and music, no dialog. Pure genius). This comes on a pretty full 200 foot reel.

Also, and best of all, the complete diner scene at the end where Clark gets the truck driver back! One of the most satisfying scenes ever! This is about 60 or so feet on a 200 foot reel.
All these put together, a very smooth flow. An excellent release.

Whew! that was a lot of typing. I hope someone out there finds this review helpfull.

I never did see the trailer released by Jef Films, but if it was anything like his other trailer releases, I'm sure the quality is top notch.

P.S.- stay away from the flat release, unless you just want to have a few scenes to show as shorts or something, like me.

Nick.

[ April 30, 2013, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: James N. Savage 3 ]

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on February 05, 2005, 01:47 AM:

I have the trailer for Superman 2 and the print quality is pretty dire. Shame.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on February 05, 2005, 03:05 PM:

John- did yours come from Jef Films, or another source?

Nick.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 06, 2005, 02:42 PM:

This film is a good release, we also have the first Superman 3z400 intercut with the 200ft making a more satisfying film, unfortunatly the sound quality is so different all the way through by huge amounts that its spoilt the film, so much so we are debating wether to get rid of, a shame as the print and content arnt bad.
Superman 2 from Derann is an excellent film though and with good use of the widescreen.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on February 08, 2005, 07:18 AM:

Tom- what about re-recording your soundtrack for "Superman"?

Nick.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 14, 2005, 03:00 PM:

Kevin gave me some good advise on that which i may try.
He suggested moving the sound onto the 2nd track useing auto level mode and the back onto main track. I'll try anything once,(within' reason [Big Grin]

)
Thanks for that advise Kev, [Wink]

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on January 20, 2010, 08:40 PM:

I owned the flat version and I only watched the first reel. The focus was very soft...even muddy. I traded it off in part for a very nice 3 X 400' of the first Superman film.

I'm holding out for the scope version of II.

Bill

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on April 26, 2010, 10:05 AM:

So did any forum member purchase the Superman II optical feature on the Derann list? I replied immediately and once again..."We are sorry but the item has been sold."
I don't think I have gotten a "Yes we have the item in stock" in years! [Frown]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 26, 2010, 10:14 AM:

Sometimes I get lucky, but not this time. I replied within 7 minutes of receiving the list, but didn't get a thing!

Doug

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on April 29, 2010, 06:13 PM:

I think the US gets delayed lists...Just Kidding! [Smile]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 20, 2018, 06:41 AM:

This is one of those winning 2 x 600ft edits released by Derann when they were at there peak. While the quality of this release is very very good the grading of some of the daytime scenes hasn't quite got the edge as The Fog or Grease but it is still very good and certainly shows off the Scope screen perfectly. The sound on my copy is excellent, although mono, but as my shows go via my pioneer stereo amp, i get excellent twin mono sound that can lift the roof should i require it.
This print is in very good condition throughout, this one also includes the full titles sequence and the final diner sequence both very well edited in. I thought there were huge sound differences on these but i was wrong, (thankfully), the edits are very good with the same framing as the main film, the sound is just about the same so no need to adjust. Colour, as you would expect from an LPP print is first class with the night scenes looking really good and with perfect contrast. I myself am not a super heroes movie fan but i do like the first two Superman movies and also the first remake of Batman with Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson and the first two Spiderman films, other than that i give a wide birth to everything after.
This particular home release, IMO, is the best of the Superman films, more action, better story line, (all be it thin), and certainly the best edit.
I remember Barry Normans review of this film upon its release, at that time it was 60 million dollars and was the most expensive film made with the New York Street reconstructed within the studio in order to destroy it. So much better than any CGI trash.

As already very well covered here by James's excellent review, during the full title sequence the audience gets a complete recap of the first superman movie, so if you either havnt seen it, or only have this movie without the first film then you can pretty much pick up what happened previously.

[ April 20, 2018, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Tom Photiou ]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on April 20, 2018, 11:24 AM:

Tom, great review.

I remember well hiring this from Derann in the late 80's and thoroughly enjoying this super 8 version, with all the extra scenes added. I just loved that Derann admitted the error of omitting the justice on the bully scene and released it as a 50ft, that and the complete opening credits, which I still have as a stand alone print. The full length 4:3 VHS version of the time on the TV was dreadful by comparison!

I ran it for a few of my Dad's friends at the time and was met with, "Can you turn it down a bit son, it's far too loud..."

Lol! I was about 18 at the time.

Now then, this was a troubled production and if you can find the DVD Richard Donner cut it is a revelation...the movie it was meant to be...suddenly it all makes perfect sense.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 20, 2018, 12:07 PM:

Huh! I didn't realize that Derann had released that second little 50ft bit of the "dinner reprisals" scene. With the credit sequence, AND the 50ft, was this still able to fit on 2X600ft reels? I'm sure that the reels would be pretty full, but without the original title sequence released with part one, I'm betting perhaps it would fit OK.

The only thing I didn't like about this one (as i used to own it) is that, conmpared to the Derann scope features, this one appeared a good deal grainier and kind of dupey, but that's just my opinion.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 20, 2018, 12:10 PM:

Thanks Rob, i will look into that DVD. I did read about this movies production, it was worth it in the end. That opening music by Ken Thorn works perfectly. Ken Thorn had to try to keep the music in the same vein as John Williams who chose not to return for this movie due to two other commitments for Lucasfilm projects.
To me, that opening has a ring of 2001 to it, but it certainly opens this movie brilliantly. [Wink]

Osi, yes it does all fit and both reels are, as you say, very full. [Wink]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on April 20, 2018, 12:15 PM:

Tom:

https://www.amazo n.co.uk/Superman-II-Richard-Three-Disc-Special/dp/B000I8OC6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1524244358&sr=8-1&keywords=superman+2+richard+donner+cut

You will not be disappointed; it's a revelation. Really the movie it always should have been.

Osi, yes, for whatever reason it was quite grainy. Still, at the rime to watch this super 8 version at home was just amazing...as Tom has discovered, still is!

Derann had lots of letters at the time about no revenge on that bully...

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 20, 2018, 12:18 PM:

Cheers Rob, i have now made the purchase. Its mad isn't it, £3.27 delivered on DVD with all that goes with it, Yet something inside us still keeps us buying our Super 8s, (and 16s), [Big Grin]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on April 20, 2018, 12:26 PM:

Tom, as the Richard Donner version was never actually truly completed (the reveal of Clark Kent as Superman was only filmed as a test) before Richard Donner was "sacked", due to purely financial reasons, technically it is a TV watch, but you will just love this version...

The whole dubious plot stodge about Clark turning back into Superman is gone (along with other non-sense plot strands) with, instead, logical, often heart-rending reasons for everything.

I'll say no more...you'll love it!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 20, 2018, 02:41 PM:

Thanks Rob, i shall watch it and report back to you. [Wink]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on April 20, 2018, 02:55 PM:

Please do, Tom.

Let's start a new thread in General Yak as I can't wait to see what you think of it...it's brilliant!

That said, Derann's super 8mm 2 x 600ft 'scope version is still amazing.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 20, 2018, 03:15 PM:

i will definatly do that Rob.
i agree also that this 2 x 600 version is first rate. it is a shame that a few of the day time scenes a little bit grainy but then its a thousand time better then fading. [Wink]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on April 21, 2018, 11:12 AM:

Would anyone know if an optical sound super 8 survived to this day? Obviously it would be edited and not be in scope, but I am just curious.

I know Superman 3 exists as an optical feature, as I own it, as well as a Superman 4 feature, (optical).

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