8mm Forum: LENGTH OF LEADER

This is topic LENGTH OF LEADER in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on March 11, 2007, 04:53 AM:

What do Members generally recommend as a sensible length of film leader for 16mm films?

I use approx. 6ft/2M for Standard 8 and Super 8, but as 16mm travels faster in terms of ft/sec. is this enough?

Any thoughts, please?

Thanx,

Posted by Yanis Tzortzis (Member # 434) on March 11, 2007, 06:02 AM:

I can't see why it shouldn't be enough;on the other hand,it depends on the projector. I have the ELMO 16CL,which is hand-loaded,so one meter's more than enough! Is yours automatically loaded?

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on March 11, 2007, 06:59 AM:

Thanks Yanis,

Mine is manual threading too. Old but virtually mint Ampro Stylist Major Mk2. They reckon it takes about 3 to 3 1/2 ft to manually thread and put a couple of turns on the take-up reel.

Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 696) on March 11, 2007, 07:37 AM:

When you say 'leader' I assume you mean the white, black, or clear film before the actual numbered leader.

This spacing, to give it it's proper name, should be at least twice the length of the film path from pay off to take up spool.
In my case my Eiki takes 5 ft, so I splice on 10 ft.

Not only does this protect the leader, it also helps to keep dirt away from the film

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on March 11, 2007, 08:14 AM:

Hi Hugh,

Yes, I do mean the white (or coloured) leader which one buys to splice on separately, in addition to what is already there, not the countdown numbered leader that is often part of the film itself

Well, here's the thing. Some films have the numbered leader, whilst others do not, particularly those of a 'home movie' nature. What then?

I like the idea of twice the length of the film path. Sounds psychologically and practically about right. 5ft does seem rather excessive, though. Does the Eiki film path have a very tortuous route?

My couple of metres would fit nicely into this theory, as it only takes, as I say, about 3ft to thread up the Ampro. I have been using 2M for films with and without the numbered leader. What say you?

Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 696) on March 11, 2007, 12:41 PM:

Hello David

I can not remember the correct length of a new numbered leader but, If the film has no leader, or I want to replace a very badly damaged leader with blank film, then I always use about six feet.
This is not far short of the correct length for a new numbered 16mm leader. I then add my 10 ft onto this.

Yes 10 ft does seem rather excessive, but I have an ex cinema Eiki. This is rather larger than most 16mm machines.
If you want to see a photo then please go to my web site page http://www.cinephoto2.co.uk/complete_elf_ex6100_projector.htm

There are no rules about how much spacing you put before the leader.
I suppose the real answer is to use the length of film that you are happy with. Your 6 ft would appear to be correct for that machine.

Hugh.

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on March 11, 2007, 01:44 PM:

Wow, Hugh,

What a super machine. Do you use it at home, or have you a purpose built 'movie theater'? I'm turning green by the minute.

Here is a reply from a member of the Filmshooting Forum. Any comments, Hugh?

Quote: "You tend to need a lot more since the length of run in the projector is typically much longer in the larger 16mm format. I would double that (12 feet) as a minimum...also remember the film travels much faster so that gives you less time than for super 8/reg 8. Like 100-feet lasts only 2.5 minutes or something similar...compared to 50 feet lasting 3 1/3 minutes...

Lastly, sprockets tend to get ruined in 16mm at times so you need even more leader.

Best of luck". End of quote.

Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 696) on March 11, 2007, 05:15 PM:

Hi David.

The cinema firm that I work for gave me the projector as they were going to throw it out.
It was used to show Film club films, but they now all use digital, and project using a DVD machine.
It has replaced an Eiki NT machine that I had for many years.
The projector is in one room, and projects through a porthole, glazed with float glass, onto the screen in the next room.
I get a scope picture of 6 feet. I could get a larger picture, but the porthole is not wide enough.
When I get the house sorted out, you can come along and operate it if you like.

The quote from the Filmshooting Forum tends to state the obvious, although they do seem to bear out my statement that you should use at least twice the length of the film that is wanted for lacing.
They do not say if their 12 ft includes the leader.

Damaged sprocket holes in spacing, or leaders, are the sign of a bad projectionist who is lax in not checking that they have laced up correctly.

Hugh

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on March 12, 2007, 03:28 AM:

Hugh,

I would love to pop over sometime and have a look at your set-up. Thank you very much for the invitation.

Just by way of interest, my late father, when in his teens, used to live with his parents in Smithambottom Lane!!!

Anyway, with regard to this film leader business, I'm seriously considering splitting the difference, and going for 9ft/3M. I think that in my situation that should take care of all eventualities. Yes???

Best regards,

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