This is topic noob question small picture ? in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.


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Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 16, 2018, 05:30 PM:
 
hi, sorry for this but.. why is the picture so small on my Bell and Howell filmosound 16mm PJ ? i thought it would be bigger, but it seems smaller even than my 8mm PJ ?
cheers rob
 

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Posted by Nantawat Kittiwarakul (Member # 6050) on September 16, 2018, 08:17 PM:
 
If the projection lens is standard 50mm,then there would be no surprise at all.
 

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Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on September 17, 2018, 01:20 AM:
 
If a long throw lens is fitted then it would also account for a small picture. 50mm is the standard lens, anything over 50mm would be considered a long throw.
What distance from projector to screen are you using?
 

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Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 17, 2018, 02:43 AM:
 
it is about 15 ft from the screen, so not far.
could i fit another lens, or adapt the one i have to give a larger picture ?
thanks Rob
 

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Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 17, 2018, 03:25 AM:
 
You need to look for a one inch, or 25mm lens, this will fill your screen the same as your 8mm projector. The 50mm lens was standard because many of these projectors were used in halls where the distance from the screen was longer than in the home.
 

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Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 17, 2018, 03:48 AM:
 
Rob
If your picture is 2'9" x 2'1" at a 15ft throw, then you have the standard 2" (50mm) lens.
To increase picture size have a longer throw or invest in a shorter focal length lens.
What model is your Bell & Howell?
The earlier wooden blimp models used lenses of a smaller barrel size than the later models. Don't get confused if you go into the market for a new lens.
 

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Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 17, 2018, 04:14 AM:
 
I see chaps it is not a huge issue i was just wondering really, although a bigger picture would be nice.. i am maybe a bit spoiled by the 120" screen i use with my JVC X30

Maurice, i have the Bell & Howell FILMOSOUND 1592,
thanks Rob

[ September 17, 2018, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: Robert Blackie ]
 

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Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 17, 2018, 05:02 AM:
 
Rob
Paul Foster has three lenses to fit your Bell & Howell, all at £79.99.
38mm
40mm
Zoom 35mm to 65mm
If you are interested I would recommend the zoom.
Remember that short focal length lenses are much sought after and their price reflects this.
http://www.fosterfilms.co.uk/accessories.htm
 

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Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on September 17, 2018, 05:07 AM:
 
Robert - Sorry to sort of gate-crash your post, but on this topic I need to ask Maurice a question which I am sure would benefit both of us...

Maurice - I, too, have a Bell & Howell 16mm Filmosound with a 50mm lens. A few years ago I picked up a zoom lens at Blackpool which has focal lengths between 32mm and 65mm. Naturally, I DO get a much bigger picture. BUT (and pardon my ignorance to this basic question) is it the 32mm or the 65mm end that makes it a bigger picture?
 

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Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 17, 2018, 06:38 AM:
 
im guessing the 32
 

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Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on September 17, 2018, 06:40 AM:
 
I'm not Maurice, but it is the 32mm that gives the bigger picture.
 

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Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on September 17, 2018, 07:29 AM:
 
Thanks Brian. Hope that also helped you Robert.
I kind of did have an ulterior motive for finding out, as even using this lens does not fill my entire screen as my super 8 lenses do from the same distance, so I need to be on the lookout for a lens that is less than 32mm if one exists.
 

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Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 17, 2018, 08:25 AM:
 
Agreed. The 32mm end gives the bigger picture.
The Super 8 range of projectors with their zoom lenses were mainly designed for use in a home environment, whilst the 16mm range were designed for use in larger auditoria.
 

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Posted by David Guest (Member # 2791) on September 17, 2018, 09:30 AM:
 
I can sell you a zoom lens to fit this machine with good clean optics I might even have a 25mm or a 38mm will take a look and it will be a lot cheeper than anyone else on here
 

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Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 17, 2018, 09:37 AM:
 
The modern Bell & Howell range of lenses go down to 1" (25mm), this lens will give a picture 5'7" x 4'2" at a throw of 15ft.
 

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Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 17, 2018, 11:48 AM:
 
Hi David thanks, PM me please (*i assume you can do that here ).
thanks rob
 

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Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on September 17, 2018, 04:12 PM:
 
Go for at least a 25mm Robert, if you can, or even better a 16mm Elmo 1.4 20mm lens, superb, and releeve it for the B+H easy enough as its 40mm in size and the bell and howell is 52.5mm I think.

But a good 25mm may be just the job.

Though a good Elmo 20mm is fantastic.

Mine off David Guest ( thanks David ) is just brilliant.

Best wishes Mark.
 

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Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 20, 2018, 09:18 AM:
 
thanks for the info Mark
just waiting on a PM.
Rob
edit
i picked up a 16mm Bell & Howell 2 inch f1.2 for cheap, it looks like it might fit ok.. il let you know when it comes.
BTW my current lens is 2 inch / 51mm f/1.2
looks very similar in size/ threads etc. fingers crossed it gives a bigger picture
it says 16mm but i doubt thats the focal length.. probably referring to 16mm pj..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bell-Howell-Projector-Lens-16-mm-2-inch-f-1-2-Made-in-the-USA/253872870722?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648

[ September 20, 2018, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Robert Blackie ]
 

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Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 20, 2018, 06:51 PM:
 
anyone ?
cheers rob
 

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Posted by Nantawat Kittiwarakul (Member # 6050) on September 20, 2018, 09:33 PM:
 
So you're replacing the original 51mm lens with 2" lens???
 

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Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 21, 2018, 02:23 AM:
 
Rob
You are replacing like for like. Or, am I missing something?
 

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Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 21, 2018, 03:46 AM:
 
i have no idea, thats why im asking lol
i assumed 16mm was the focal length..it seems odd to print 16mm on the lens otherwise.. also there are no other numbers except the aperture, all the other lenses i have seen have an actual number like 32,38, 40 etc, this does not.
and i assumed the 2 in was the fit size..
ah well, you live and learn.
i have asked he seller to cancel sale, il just wait now, see if he does.
cheers rob

[ September 21, 2018, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: Robert Blackie ]
 

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Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on September 21, 2018, 03:52 AM:
 
Hi Rob, yes it will be the same size.

You really need a 25mm or so.

Can you exlain you need a different one to the seller, they should be undertstanding that you are new to it etc.

There are good options etc, keep with it, and the bigger picture will work wonders for enjoying the films.

Look forward to it.

Best Mark.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16mm-projection-lens-Bell-and-Howell-Extremely-Rare-25mm-Wide-Angle-Fits-TQs/142915366888?hash=item21466b6fe8:g:i94AAOSwfBFbgBHY

This is right but you should get one for around £50/£60 did you speak to David Guset. hes also a good source to get a few nice cheap bits to get you going etc.
 

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Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 21, 2018, 04:09 AM:
 
hi mark, yes i see, no i have not spoken to David as he has not PM'ed me yet, so i just sent him a PM.
it is not something im willing to pay £100 on TBH, even £50 seems steep.. i suppose because i have a regular video projector and also a working 8mm / super8 ..also, the thing about old cine stuff i have noticed is, on 8mm you cant really play feature films, and on 16mm, the full length movies are ridiculously expensive !
and a lot of sellers seem pretty greedy asking the earth ...

im more into looking at 8mm and super 8 home movies and the laurel and hardy/chaplin type thing..this is due to the fact that the only 8mm/s8 films are "selected scenes" from movies but people still want quite a lot for them.. looking at it , a full length move on s8 would be about 5 reels long..ive never seen these for sale.

16mm is a bit of a bust for me, i got the PJ cheap but getting any decent film is proving to be a bit of a hike... so spending much on a lens for the 16mm PJ is not really justifiable.
saw pulp fiction going for over 3k last time i looked
cheers rob
 

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Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 21, 2018, 06:24 AM:
 
The eBay ad was a trifle misleading, and the pics were not very clear. I suppose the seller put 16mm to show it was a lens for a 16mm projector.
The lens is/was the standard lens as supplied with the projector from new, usually referred to as a 2" (inch), but sometimes quoted as a 50mm.
Either way, it's the same.
 

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Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 21, 2018, 07:51 AM:
 
yes Maurice, i see that now.
thanks rob
 

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Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on September 21, 2018, 03:38 PM:
 
Hi Robert, you might be as well getting a nice small super 8 sound projector for some real film 8mm fun, a few trailers and digests etc.

16mm is a bit serious. Or you could slowly try both.

Also 8mm image size is less of an issue as most lenses give a far bigger picture than 16mm ones.

8mm is more about fun and faffing about etc too.

But 16mm prints are very very nice.

Theres obviously something about it gets you etc so might be an option to go for the smaller gauge for now or at some point.

I`m sure I can find you a few free super 8 bits and pieces as well once you get a machine if you do go that way.

If you can get a nice Sankyo 501 for around £50 or so you would be away with the right lens and some really good film faddling fun.

I really think its worth a bit of thought.

If you really fancy 16mm David Guest will have some very nice affordable starter films.

Best wishes Mark.

[ September 21, 2018, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Mark Todd ]
 

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Posted by Robert Blackie (Member # 6597) on September 22, 2018, 06:57 AM:
 
Hi Mark, i have a eumig for 8mm/S8 and i use that, i also use a JVC X30 for HDMI sources..
I didnt want to be limited to 8/s8 hence the 16MM ..i also have a Specto 9.5mm but i need to repair that as the gate fell apart... donnt want my 9.5 films to get wrecked , read the specto was kind to film hence buying it.

I think David Guest must be busy ATM as he has no replied to my PM as yet.
thanks for your thoughts.
Regards Rob
update.
the PMs went into my junk folder, David does not have anything suitable ATM lens wise.
 

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Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on September 23, 2018, 01:01 PM:
 
Hi Robert sorry I thought you were new to film altogther, my mistake.

Just out of interest ( below ) for anyone else interested I found this great starter machine for £50 delivered.

You could try Ian at Perrys he usually asks around £59 ish for a B+H 25mm if he has one.

Best Mark.

https://www.ebay.co. uk/itm/Sankyo-Sound-501-Projector-Boxed-Super-8-Tested-Fully-Working-Free-Delivery/362441942926?hash=item546339278e:g:ebMAAOSw15Zbp1QD
 

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 23, 2018, 11:39 PM:
 

quote:

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also, the thing about old cine stuff i have noticed is, on 8mm you cant really play feature films

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