8mm Forum: Reel sizes in the cinema

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Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on June 23, 2006, 04:37 AM:

Since being on Mykonos we have been to the great little outdoor cinema here a couple of times, but as yet I haven't managed to get into the projection box - but I 'm working on it [Wink]

.

All the features here are shown with an intermission and I have come to realise that it is because there is only one projector up there and pressumably of limited capacity.

I was wondering what the norm is in terms of cinema projection, ie; is it possible to mount an entire 35mm print on to one huge reel or would it be split into two and run consecutively on two projectors for a continuous show?

Back in my home town of Worthing the Historic Dome Cinema, is still running its pre (second world) war projectors and the projectionist there told me that it was unusual in that the films were shown just as they were supplied ie; not mounted on bigger reels because these projectors have such a small capacity. This of course made the projectionists job quite labour intensive, as he was continually changing reels and rewinding ( by hand [Eek!]

).

So is it possible to put an entire programme, trailers and all on one mega reel or is it still normal practice to swap between projectors?

Mike [Cool]

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on June 23, 2006, 05:29 AM:

Or is this outdoor cinema showing 16mm prints? The outdoor cinema I used to frequent in the South of France was wholly 16mm.

Usually big reels or cake stands are used for 35mm but there will undoubtedly be some where single machines of limited capacity are used or pairs of machines for changeovers.

Isn't it time you stopped loafing Mike and got back to doing some work? Skiver!

Posted by Dimitrios Kremalis (Member # 272) on June 23, 2006, 12:02 PM:

Mike,
Showing films with an intermission was the rule in every greek cinema, not only open-air, before the introduction of multiplexes. There were also some nice vintage intermission slides and adverts..
John, I think the cinema in Myconos is showing 35mm prints. If it is the one I remember that is...
Btw. how's the name of the cinema? Is it the one in the Chora?

P.S. Drink a cocktail at Caprice for me [Big Grin]

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on June 23, 2006, 12:04 PM:

I think I can answer this.

In theaters with aold time war projectors, the capacity should be 2000' (20 min @ 90 feet per minute). This is equal to 400 ft of super 8.

As the single theaters made way for twin theaters, they had the next size reel at 6000'. One hour of 35mm with one changeover between machines and this is equal to 1200' of super 8.

In the current multiplexes with 6 or more screens, they are now using platter. Guided by rollers, the film is automatically fed to and from the machine from a separate spolling device. All the small reels are spliced, and the entire show runs through one machine. When you look at Brad's posts, a platter is shown behind him in his picture.

Chip Gelmini

Posted by David Brooks (Member # 621) on June 23, 2006, 03:04 PM:

I lived and worked in Greece for a couple of years in the mid 1960s. Except for a few theaters in Athens, all theaters just had one projector as a rule. I visited a couple of booths and they typially used a large reel 4000-6000' size but there was always an intermission. I guess now days, the platter is used there too so, unlesss the intermissions are still maintained as tradition, they could run the film without interruption.

There was an outdoor cinema near my house and I could sit on my balcony and watch the film. Couldn't hear the sound, but you could watch the film. They had out door plastic chairs to sit on.

The neat thing was that the films had Greek subtitles and English (or what ever language the film was) would be the sound track.

Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on June 23, 2006, 06:06 PM:

Hi all,
in the 90s, when I was a student, I worked in a cinema as an projectionist.

The cinema was built in 1993 and a new "Kinoton" machine with reels for about two and half hour of film was used.

The disadvantage of reels is, that you have rewind the film after each show. Sometimes, if we show old acetate prints, the prints would be splitted during the rewinding over rollers when a damaged position crossed the rollers. Once it was really horrible, because a complete trailer was splitted. I have to cut them out and throwing away. When rewinding the film, polyester film is electrostatically loaded, which tightens dust and dirt magically.

The advantage of big reels is, that you can rewind few feets (meters) the film, if the film teared or the matrix of the projector was out of control.

The age of the machines is independent of the choice of the reel size. Also new machines can play only small sizes. And old machines from the 40s, 50s... can be used for new big reel systems or plates.

When we showed "Pulp Fiction" we have to use two big reels. We made a break after reel 7. The sales of beer was particularly high with this film.

If you show films with horizontal platter system you haven´t to rewind the films after the end, but otherwise you can´t rewind the film few minutes when it is a unintentional break during the show, because the film is running down ago from the inside of the plate.

Films with very long running time f. e. "Titanic", "Lord of the Rings" can also prepare problems with platter system. The end of the film can fall the edge of plate down. If it is hot in the projection area, polyester films can unwrap out of round. Im remember when the Projectionist cooled the area desperately with ice water and a fan.

Open Air cinemas here in Germany make often an intentional interruption , in order to sell drinks and meals.
I heard that these kind of interruption is usually done in normal cinemas in Switzerland. So, perhaps this is the reason
why there is a break in greek cinemas????

Andreas

[ June 24, 2006, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: Andreas Eggeling ]

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on June 23, 2006, 06:10 PM:

Hi Mike here are a couple of photo,s taken a few months ago interlocking two projectors with one print

The film is leaving the cinema 2 platter on the right threaded through the Baur which is projecting in cinema 2 then accross the roof through a accumulator and then into the cinema 1 Simplex projector, and from there the film is taken up on the cinema 1 platter. Control of the film between the two projectors is by adjusting the motor speed of the baur, the simplex is usually controlled by a computor but in this case we run things manually, we have nicknamed the computor Hall9000 for good reason, also we run film down the roof from cinema 2 platter as well to cinema 3, so some nights I have film running in all directions [Eek!]

polyester film is incredibly strong but unforgiving if you get things wrong. Mike one of Keith Wiltons tapes has a home movie taken in the projection box of the Odeon cinema taken in 1960 fascinating stuff well worth a look at. [Smile]

Regards Graham.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on June 24, 2006, 01:20 AM:

Mike,

Platter systems and other long play 35mm transport systems were introduced in the early 1970's and have slowly taken over most of the worlds cinemas. They were developed at this time as prior to the introduction of the xenon lamp another projector was required as the carbons (the previous light sourse) would only last 30 mins or so at longest.

At our drive-in we use Kinoton/Philips platters on all three screens. We join the entire double feature and all ads and trailers together on one plate and run the programme without re-threading; up to five hours of film.

The platter system, unlike large 13,000 ft spools on a tower system, does not require rewinding at the end of the show. There are of course some theatres in most countries that have remained with the two projector changeover system for various reasons.

See Lunar Drive-in for pictures of the projection room in the gallery section.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on June 24, 2006, 05:56 AM:

Guys

Thanks for all the replies...

John, Loafing, me? Never [Wink]

!

Dimitrios, the cinema on Mykonos is definitely 35mm, I'm going to try and get a sneaky peak in the projection box on Monday, if I do I shall take my camera and post some pictures on here. It must be the one you were thinking of, it's in the Chora, the name is something like "Cine Mantz".

Caprice? Haven't found it yet, does it come with your recommendation [Wink]

?

Chip,

From what you describe, it looks as though the cinema here is running one 35mm projector with a 6000ft spool.

David,

The Mykonos cinema is just as you remember from your time in Greece in the sixties. It is a little like being in someones back garden which gives it an "intimate" feel. There are cats wondering around and usually a crowd of children present that seem completely oblivious to the film being shown but happy to chat away amongst themselves! The seating is all garden chairs and the patrons tend to reorganise them as they arrive to sit in little huddles with their friends, there are also small garden tables dotted around, so the whole seating plan becomes a little like being in a cafe once people have got it just the way they want it!

Oh yes, and all the films are still shown with Greek subtitles and the original language preserved.

Andreas

quote:
When we showed "Pulp Fiction" we have to use two big reels. We made a break after reel 7. The sales of beer was particularly high with this film.

Hmmm... me thinks this was a good marketing ploy that perhaps bigger European cinemas have forgotten about, at the start of the interval at the Mykonos cinema there is a mad rush for the small refreshments vendor who not only sells ice cream, beer and popcorn, but hot snacks like pizza and cheese pies - he seems to do quite well...

Graham,

Great pictures, is this a cinema where you work? It's amazing what goes on behind the scenes, those projectors and film transport systems look and sound incredible!

David,

Is that you in the bottom shot in the Gallery? It looks like an amazing theatre and I noticed in the write up that it claims to be the largest drive in theatre in the Southern Hemisphere! Wow, I was in Australia for a couple of months at the end of last year and would have made a special effort to get to Melbourne if I had realised, seeing a film there would have been a great experience for a Brit like me for whom drive ins are but a fantasy!

Thanks again for all the replies, I shall endeavour to get a closer look report back - hopefully with photos...

Mike [Cool]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 24, 2006, 07:14 AM:

Mike it sound really quaint.
Will you take a copule of shots of the whole setup inc screen and seating.

Graham, What emergency plans are in place if you get a break in the film? you would obviously down both screens if that happened [Frown]

Kev.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on June 24, 2006, 09:15 PM:

Mike
There are two us employed full time and two part timers, I have been there 5yrs its certainly been an interesting job something different to what I used to do. The other projectionists have only been there the last few years, and are half my age so I seemed to be looked upon as the wise old timer, a good bunch to work with.

Kev
Good point we don't have a emergency plan as such, we have talked about it for a while and if it comes to the crunch I can work something out so at least I can continue with one projector. The biggest risk is not so much with the film but with the projectors themselves. A few years ago the cinema was choosen for the premier of Whale Rider and with the director and cast nothing was left to chance, the film was interlocked and test screened everything went well,all the seats were sold,so everything was ready for the big night,the day before one of the two projectors packed up and I always remember the look of horror on the manager's face seeing the projector in bits while the electrian was working on it and telling her not to worry it will be right on the night.They were fixed just in time but! We never offered to do another one. [Smile]

Graham

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on June 25, 2006, 03:42 AM:

Yes Mike, that is me in the bottom shot. It's my brother Matthew with all the female staff and friend Anthony looking serious with the bowl; we are the three owners of the Lunar drive-in Theatre.

We would have welcomed you, but I read of your adventures in Australia just as I joined the forum. The same applies to all on this forum, if you are ever in Melbourne come and say hello and see Australia's largest drive-in theatre. At a squeeze we can hold around 1000 cars. Last night (the middle of our Winter) we had over 1500 people in.

Australians loved drive-ins and we had over 330 of them up until the early 1980's, but now less than 30 survive. Luckily enough there are still enough people that still love them to keep us going at the Lunar Triple.

I shot another Super 8 film of the drive-in the other week and one day I'll line up my Elmo ST 1200 and see if I can get a picture on the screen from 150 meters away!

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on June 25, 2006, 04:26 AM:

David

So, as we were travelling in a high-top camper, would we have been consigned to the "back row" [Big Grin]

?

Next time I'm in Australia, which won't be for some time I'm afraid, I'll have to come along and check out the "drive in" experience [Smile]

.

I have to say that I noticed that there seem to be more cinemas in general in Australia than we see in the UK now. Pretty well every town seems to have at least one.

We visited some pretty interesting ones too, several were survivors from the 1930s and seemed to be still running in their original livery. There was a great one in Perth, which is where we saw the latest Wallace and Grommit offering (shortly to appear on super 8 ? [Wink]

), it was like stepping back in time with its fine Art Deco interior and seats that were probably last re-upholstered during the deprivation of the war years...

It made for a great viewing experience though...

Mike [Cool]

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on June 25, 2006, 07:47 PM:

Yes, back row it would have been with the other campers, trucks and the ones that don't care much for the movies!

Australia has always had lots of cinemas, here in Melbourne there are now over 430 screens running commercial films!

Posted by John Cook (Member # 203) on June 25, 2006, 09:38 PM:

Drive-Ins are great. We have one just across the river in Council Bluffs Iowa. In my teens the surrounding area had seven or eight drive-ins up and running, several multi-screen, now we're down to one and its days appear to be numbered due to the city limits encroaching around it. Once taxes and land values hit a certain threshold I expect they'll close and that'll be that.

Several years ago Omaha lost one of the last surviving three screen wide cinerama theaters called the Indian Hills theater.
http://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/2001/65/indian/hills.htm
The local medical college leveled it to make a parking lot. [Mad]

The kids and I saw Wallace and Grommit at the C.B. Drive In last fall. Sitting outdoors on lawn chairs and hearing laughter riding the wind from all around you is what makes the Drive In experience, I'm glad my children have had the experience before our last Drive In theater is gone....

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 26, 2006, 01:10 AM:

I wonder why they didnt take off in the UK. As far as I know we have never had any drive ins.

Kev.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on June 26, 2006, 03:33 AM:

Kev

quote:
I wonder why they didnt take off in the UK. As far as I know we have never had any drive ins.

The need for windscreen wipers?

Mike [Cool]

Posted by Dimitrios Kremalis (Member # 272) on June 26, 2006, 04:26 AM:

Mike,
Caprice is one of the most famous myconean hotspots.
Trust me, you won't regret... [Big Grin]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 26, 2006, 07:04 AM:

Your probably right Mike. Wonder if there were or are any in Europe anywhere?

Kev.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 26, 2006, 11:11 AM:

Drive-Ins used to be very common here, the closest one being something like 2 miles from home. The problem is with real-estate costs being what they are in the greater metropolitan areas it makes more sense to use the land for (yet another) shopping mall, which can be pulling in money 16 hours a day in all weather.

The last Long Island drive-in closed about 10 years ago, and is now (yet another) Home Depot.

We are going on a vacation Upstate this Summer, and were pretty pleased to discover that there is an active drive-in nearby. It may be my son's only chance ever to have the experience. "Cars" is playing there now, which is simply perfect!

Sometimes I'm tempted to (gently) place a projector on the roof of my '68 Torino and watch a film on the garage door, but my neighbors probably think I'm weird enough already!

Posted by John Cook (Member # 203) on June 26, 2006, 05:49 PM:

Steve,

quote:
Sometimes I'm tempted to (gently) place a projector on the roof of my '68 Torino and watch a film on the garage door, but my neighbors probably think I'm weird enough already!

Now that's funny! If we didn't have a street lamp out front I'd give that some serious thought, that would actually be kind of fun for a group of kids on a sleep over.

Last summer I did drag Mr. Elmo out back on the deck, I'm not sure what the neighbors thought but we had fun. [Smile]

Posted by David Brooks (Member # 621) on June 26, 2006, 07:56 PM:

I got to thinking and sure enough, I found a picture of the outdoor theater in Larissa, Greece. I don't remember the name of it anymore. My apartment was to the left and you could see the screen clearly from there. Though you might be interested in it.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on June 27, 2006, 08:30 AM:

Kevin, the three things you need for drive-ins to be successful are: lots of cheap land, good weather and high car ownership. Certainly in Australia (and the US and Canada) those things mostly are/were true. There was never a permanent drive-in built in the UK.

Most North American drive-ins however closed for the colder months, here in Australia they have always operated all year round. We also still have relativly large cars; I drive a large Ford V8 sedan. This certainly helps drive-ins as families need to all be able to fit comfortably in their cars for two hours.

They did, and do still exist across most other parts of the world however. Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Africa, South and Central America, even Russia and China have drive-ins. They exist in the South Pacific but New Zealand never had any, as laws there prevented them from being built! (Large cinema chains exercising pressure to protect their hardtop cinemas)

The US peaked with drive-ins in the late 1950's with over 4,000, Australia and Canada both had around 350 each. Most other countries had less than 50 at most. It is estimated today around 500 still operate world-wide.

We went tonight and saw Over The Hedge, the kids and I loved it. I know it was a busmans holiday, but I just love seeing movies on film. I used to set-up my Std 8 projector for other kids to watch my movies in the hallway at home as a child, these days I still get a buz the same way except it's all on a slightly larger scale!

Posted by John Cook (Member # 203) on June 27, 2006, 10:13 PM:

David,

I've been away from home, working abroad for the last two months, I'm anxiously awaiting the return trip home later this week and an eventual summer trip to the Drive-In. I'm hoping "Cars" is still playing when we find the time to go. The other kids animation film coming out soon that looks to be fun is called "Monster House." That would go well at the Drive-In too.

John

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