8mm Forum: Can-Can........Technicolor?

This is topic Can-Can........Technicolor? in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000913

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 22, 2008, 02:53 AM:

British television's Channel 4 recently showed the 1960 "Can-Can" with Shirley MacLaine and Frank Sinatra. Although I am a fan of musicals I had not seen the film so I sat down to watch.

I was so impressed that I decided to buy a DVD to put in my collection. My usual supplier of DVDs didn't have it available and the only source seemed to be Amazon. Their supplier was in the Netherlands, it was stated to be a Dutch import but was in English and in region 2 PAL.

It was only £7.00 plus £1.24 for postage so I thought what had I to lose. It only took three days to arrive. It's obviously a new release as it has a 2007 copyright date.

Now here's a funny thing, as the famous British comedian, Max Miller, used to say.

The TV film credits said "Color by Deluxe."

My Super 8 Ken 400' release (F47) also says that it's in Deluxe.

However, the new DVD credits say "Color by Technicolor."

It may mean that the print was processed by Technicolor from an Eastman (Deluxe) negative, but in such a case it would normally say "Colour by Deluxe, print by Technicolor."

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on June 23, 2008, 07:28 AM:

Maurice, I once had part of a Todd-AO 70mm print of Can-can. You can see some frames of my print on the American Widescreen Museum website.

As it was shot in 65mm neg, it was Deluxe (Eastman), as Dye Imbibition Technicolor was not produced in 65mm or 70mm. I doubt very much that a 35mm version in 3 strip Technicolor was shot alongside.

Fox at the time were very much into using their own process and lab, both called Deluxe.

I'm sure somebody else can confirm in more detail the details on Can-can for you. Many DVD release companies have people working for them who do not understand colour processes, aspect ratios and sound formats!

David

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 23, 2008, 09:16 AM:

David

I appreciate your comments, but what I mean is that the actual film title credit for colour was changed, the two films are identical except for the word "Deluxe" and "Technicolor."

I can't think that Fox would alter this one credit just for its DVD release.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on June 23, 2008, 03:59 PM:

I think it is a mistake on the DVD. It may have come through a techniclor lab at some stage, but I don't think it was shot in the technicolor process.

David

Posted by Oemer Yalinkilic (Member # 86) on June 23, 2008, 05:01 PM:

It´s possible that this DVD is made from a british Technicolor Print.
For example the Feature "Born Free" has on the british quade posters Technicolor and on the US one sheets not. It s a fact that some features are printet in GB as Technicolor prints and in the USA not.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 24, 2008, 03:44 AM:

My point is that, irrespective of what lab or company did the developing or processing, it is strange that one of the main titles was altered.

It was obviously filmed in Deluxe, Fox's own trade name,and even if it was printed by the firm of Technicolor, Fox would not have altered a title would they?

Posted by peter booth (Member # 242) on June 25, 2008, 09:51 AM:

Hi Maurice,
I have the region one 2 disc Fox Marquee version and the credits say Technicolour.Colour consultant Leonard Doss.regards,Peter.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 25, 2008, 11:43 AM:

Peter

Interesting. For many years Leonard Doss was a colour consultant for Technicolor.

I am now quoting from Richard W. Haines' book "Technicolor Movies."

"For a few months in 1953, negotiations were under way between Technicolor and the DeLuxe labs to set up a dye transfer line in the latter. A handful of 35mm imbibition prints were made of "How To Marry A Millionaire" and "Beneath The 12-Mile Reef" that contained the credits "Color by Technicolor-DeLuxe." The DeLuxe executives changed their minds and decided to go with the Eastmancolor contact printing system for most of their future 35mm releases, although many of their nontheatrical 16mm prints were made in the dye transfer process. (In some cases, 16mm IB prints are the only DeLuxe titles that still have colour, since the majority of the 35mm colour negatives and prints developed at that facility display severe fading problems.) Had DeLuxe or some other colour labs taken advantage of the decree, we might still have dye transfer printing in the United States."

Other pages talk about the major flaw in the Eastmancolor process that was ignored by the industry at one time. When Kodak offered the process to studio owned labs thay gave specific instructions on processing, etc. However, the labs soon learned quicker ways to process an acceptable image. As the story went Kodak then told these labs if they were not going to process their films correctly, they should use their own trade names rather than Eastmancolor. Thus, Pathe Color, WarnerColor and others were formed.

Back to my Can-Can DVD. This has data in Dutch and French on the package, although rather surprisingly the disc starts with the British F.A.C.T. "Piracy Is Theft" in English. The film also has a four-minute sound overture. The sound is 5.1 and the print is slight letterbox. The colour is better than the TV transmission.

Posted by peter booth (Member # 242) on June 26, 2008, 02:42 PM:

Maurice,its interesting that Halliwells Film & Video guide lists Can Can in Deluxe colour,I wonder if Technicolour was only used for the US release,regards,Peter.

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2