8mm Forum: I need fellow ebay sellers advice please ...

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 14, 2011, 02:59 PM:

I and my wife are in a first time ever situation.

The print of "The Hot Rock", which I sold to a fellow member of our own forum, who lives in the UK (a good friend, I should add) has come up missing or, at least, it hasn't arrived yet. My friend has opened a claim with ebay.

Now, I of course feel that my friend shouldn't lose out financially, but I am also out a one of a kind print that my wife and I promptly mailed to him. I have the customs form and number from when I sent it and I am locating (or attempting to locate) the other shipping info.

What protections are there for the seller? I don't want my friend to be out money, but does the seller end up high and dry (as well as out a rare print), or are there some routes or options with ebay that the seller can use as well?

I need your help guys. I don't want either party to be out financially

OSI

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on October 14, 2011, 03:25 PM:

Osi, did you have tracking with your shipment ? If you send via USPS First Class Mail, I am afraid you will not have that. But if you sent via Priority mail (which is more expensive), you will be given tracking numbers.

If you don't have tracking Ebay (via Paypal) will withdraw your money for sure. And that will include the shipping cost (not only the film price).

Did you insure your shipment? if so, you still can get your money back from USPS to the max value of the items was insured.

Otherwise bye,bye,...

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 15, 2011, 12:33 PM:

There's got to be some other kind of protection. I have the customs receipt (complete with post office stamp and date) that I can mail them, as well as the e-mails back and forth between the seller and us, where the seller chose the lower cost postage. That's got to make some kind of difference.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on October 15, 2011, 01:12 PM:

Osi, believe me, Ebay will only protect buyer not seller.

I have an experience that my buyer complain the item I sold and wanted to return. Before I said yes, he already filed to Ebay and Ebay withdraw all payment he made which include the shipping cost. He sent the item to me and put my price on the declaration form without putting a note that it was a return item. So when I received MY OWN item, I have to pay duty & tax. I complained to Ebay that I lost my money for shipping cost to the buyer and now plus duty and tax.

Ebay didn't care.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on October 15, 2011, 01:57 PM:

Osi,
Are you saying the buyer chose the cheapest shipping route? Which shipping service was this? Did it include insurance? If not, was the buyer aware of this?

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on October 15, 2011, 09:48 PM:

how long has it been i sent a film to italy this summer with tracking and it sat in customs for days/weeks before he finally got it.

[ October 16, 2011, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Jim Schrader ]

Posted by William Hatfield (Member # 2759) on October 16, 2011, 05:01 AM:

Many sellers sell to all foreign nations, except Italy.

Posted by Keith Ashfield (Member # 741) on October 16, 2011, 08:36 AM:

In view of the posts that are being entered on this thread I feel that I should put forward the “whole picture” (although I did say to Osi that I would not reply, I do not want members to get the “wrong idea” about either the seller, the buyer, Ebay or the postal method).

I won the auction for “The Hot Rock”, being the only bidder. I requested a quote for “traceable/insured” shipping from Osi and was given a choice of two quotes - $45.00 for Express International or $20 for Flat Rate Priority. I was told that the Flat Rate method would have insurance cover up to $70.00 but it would take longer to arrive in the UK.

I must state at this point, whenever I have bought from overseas in the past I have always insisted on “Express traceable/insured” posting, and have accepted nothing less. In this instance, because the Express postage cost was as much as the film, and assured by Osi that he had used the “Flat Rate Priority” method many times, without any problems, I chose the “cheaper” option.

Payment was made and the film posted on the 7th September. After two weeks I contacted Osi about the “non-receipt”, just a brief note to let him know the situation.

Further regular contacts was made between us, about the “missing” film, until we both agreed, in view of the “insurance” cover obtained, I would open a “claim” on Ebay on the 7th October, as it had been over four weeks since the posting date. This was done and Ebay gave Osi a “respond” date of the 16th October. I did state on the “claim” that because of the postal method I had chosen, I would be willing to forgo the postal costs of $20.00 and accept a refund for the cost of the film only.

I then found out on 14th October that Ebay had “frozen” Osi’s Paypal funds, pending resolution of the case. Not having entered into this sort of claim before, neither Osi or myself, expected this action to be taken by Ebay.

Because Ebays action was going to cause problems for Osi, and the fact that Osi found out that USPS had wrongly advised him about the “insurance” (it transpired that there was no insurance), I “closed” the Ebay claim on the 15th October.

Osi and I have agreed that the “refund” for the cost of the film, less the postage, will be made in due course. However, if the film should arrive after the refund has been made then I will reimburse Osi the monies he has refunded to me.

The reason for me explaining the above is I do not want people to get the wrong idea about the transaction. Both parties concerned have dealt with the transaction on a friendly basis. I understand why Osi asked the question about what happens under the circumstances of something going “missing” and why should the seller be the loser?

However, I can see what may be said if this post continues without clarification of facts -

“How does the seller know that the item has not been delivered? How does the buyer know that the seller posted the item because there is no tracking?”(This has already been said to me).

I trust Osi and I sincerely hope he trusts me. I would not have it any other way.

The situation, as it stands at the moment, is we are both losers unless the film turns up, which we both hope it will.

Osi has said that in future, when posting overseas, he will insist on the buyer having insurance (which we both initially thought the parcel had) and also tracking.

I will revert back to my own “credo” that I have always used in the past of insisting on the Express/Traceable and Insured post.

The whole story just highlights in my opinion – “Murphy’s’ Law”

“Anything that can possibly go wrong does!”

Lessons have been learned by all.....

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on October 16, 2011, 09:01 AM:

I the past I have had foreign shipping take almost 2 months to arrive at it's destination. And thats with priority flat rate mailing. And when the item arrived it had been opened and resealed. This to me indicates customs or non customs occurences. Unfortunately some countries have a theft problem within their postal service.

In addition, Ebay under its "Buyer Protection" plan will always find for the buyer. Sometimes not deducting it from the sellers paypal account. This has happed to me and in conversation with Ebay I was told that when this occurs the buyer is monitored for future similar claims. Just to make sure the buyer is not trying to get items free.

What has happened here is both buyer and seller are innocent victims. So Ebay elects to take the brunt of it. This is the problem that exisits with foreign shipping to some countries. If it was an honest shipping error in transit that film will show up but it will take some time. [Frown]

---------------
Take me to your leader!

Posted by Gerald Santana (Member # 2362) on October 16, 2011, 01:03 PM:

I've waited up to a month for packages overseas, and usually they are opened and sealed in plastic, as Pat described. The packages I've sent to other countries have all been received, I have never used insurance shipping in those cases but, will make a note to do that in the future.

I also wanted to take a moment and say congratulations on Keith's 888 post and Pat's 777 post. I hope this all gets resolved and perhaps as Jim described it's sitting at someones office in the customs department, and they will get to it very soon.

Posted by Keith Ashfield (Member # 741) on October 16, 2011, 02:53 PM:

Thanks Gerald. It was a "devil of a game" to get beyond post 666. [Big Grin]

Posted by Wayne Tuell (Member # 1689) on October 18, 2011, 11:29 PM:

I don't understand how it is said there is no tracking. ALL the customs forms have automatic tracking/delivery confirmation on them. Look in the upper left corner of the customs form.

Osi, take your customs form to your post office, and they can pull up a detailed story line for you. AND if insurance is not purchased on an international package, there is an automatic partial coverage, by weight I suppose, against loss, damage, and missing content...I sent a $25.00 package to the U.K. and my receipt shows I have up to $89.56 of coverage. (don't ask me how they came up with that amount) I sent package on Aug. 24, and I can see it was delivered on Sept. 14th.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on October 18, 2011, 11:53 PM:

Wayne, as far as I knew, First Class International does not have tracking. It is mentioned in USPS website.

Anyway, we have Joe Taffis here who is working for USPS. He may jump into this discussion.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 19, 2011, 12:31 PM:

Hey folks ...

Just to update this post, the film has still not arrived at Keith's yet, and I know well his character, so when he tells it hasn't arrived, its a fact,

I went ahead and got the first half of his money back to him on Monday and will get the second half of it off to him soon. It does my heart good to hear that it has taken as much as two months for a "priority" (haha! Thats a laugh!) package to arrive means that Keith may well get it any day now or in the near future ...

and, of course, I know that Keith would send back the money sent back to him. I have known Keith for years and he is one of the finest of gentlemen ...

but I am betting on one thing ...

Both Keith and I will not mail by the darned priority mail again, eh Keith?!

Posted by Keith Ashfield (Member # 741) on October 19, 2011, 12:44 PM:

Too true Osi, too true!

As they say "once bitten - twice shy".

Posted by Keith Ashfield (Member # 741) on December 30, 2011, 10:59 AM:

Osi,

Arrived back home this afternoon from shopping with my wife and was met by my neighbour, with a parcel!

Couldn't believe my eyes when I opened the package - it is "The Hot Rock". [Eek!]

No indication as to where it has been for 3 months, but it is with me now.

Already sent a payment for $25.00, which you sent me as a partial refund.

A nice surprise for the year end. [Smile]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on December 30, 2011, 11:20 AM:

At least it arrived in the same year!

Doug

Posted by Keith Ashfield (Member # 741) on December 30, 2011, 11:24 AM:

Yes Doug. I suppose one has to be grateful for small mercies [Smile]

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on December 30, 2011, 11:56 AM:

And now your your next miracle, you may part the Red Sea!

Posted by Jon Addams (Member # 816) on December 30, 2011, 12:30 PM:

Back in March 2010, I sent a package from New York to Philadelphia (87 miles) by Priority Mail and it arrived 36 days later. [Mad]

I never found out why it took so long, but then again we all probably have read or heard of mail arriving at its destination years after being posted. As the saying goes "better later than never." [Wink]

Happy New Year

Jon

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 30, 2011, 12:37 PM:

OH MY GAWD!!

It actually frickin arrived!!!!

I hope that the film hasn't suffered in any way. The film did have some fade, not too bad, but Lord knows where it has been ...

But I am exceedingly pleased that it arrived!!!!!

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