8mm Forum: NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN Oh yes Mr Bond!

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Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on February 07, 2013, 02:39 AM:

Well, at long last Never Say Never Again starring Sean Connery gets its UK Blu-Ray release on April 1st. The US had an issue out some time ago but the real question is will the UK disc be complete or will we have the small number of edits as per the DVD?

It has been a long time coming and a welcome release of a film which has a bit of a chequered past as far as the first cinema release and Fleming's trustees trying to block the film getting made which eventually got thrown out of court. The film making side of things is really interesting with some key names taking part including Sean Connery who had said he would never make a Bond again, but his wife had other ideas even coming up with the films title! At one point the film ran out of money, Sean also put much additional time into the production side of things to help out and on it goes.

We await delivery eagerly..

Never Say Never Again
Available 1st April Amazon £8

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on February 07, 2013, 06:51 AM:

I'm lucky....I got hold of a low fade scope, apparently uncut, 16mm print some years ago. It replaced an older beat up flat airline print which had been edited to fit the 2 hour limit.
Was there some reason the video version was edited? I don't recall anything really objectionable in the film....UNLESS you count that horrid music score.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on February 07, 2013, 07:37 AM:

Yes the main edits for the UK were around the horse jump sequence where it lands in the water and frankly the cuts were absolutely ludicrous, even for 1983. They actually spent some time setting up that scene reflected in Vic Armstrong’s book which also has pictures of it all, plus Vic is apparently a very caring horseman. Turning the clock back I guess a dummy horse would have been a better choice and certainly eliminated a hurrah from the animal rights groups. You could compare such sequences with many films today and Jingle all the way springs to mind where Arnie clouts a reindeer.

Here is a scene that was UK cut. Thank goodness they showed the horse at the end!
http://youtu.be/rdgJsT7FTKw

And the music video. Seems like a nice girl. [Smile]

http://youtu.be/Mwm1H0dxAKY

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on February 07, 2013, 01:18 PM:

We also had a problem with "The Abyss" and the rats. It was screened on Channel 4 uncut and they got complaints about it.

While on NSNA in the scene with with Pat Roach when Bond throws the same jar at him. "I bet he drinks Carling Black Label" [Big Grin]

More for the UK than rest of World.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on February 07, 2013, 01:32 PM:

I 've got to say that anything that involves creatures being harmed for an entertainment gets the thumbs down from me.
One film that springs to mind is "Hunchback of the Morgue", a
Spanish horror with Paul Naschy that has scenes where swarms
of live rats are set on fire, very distasteful.There have been films
aplenty where animals have been abused and even slaughtered
when they have escaped.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on February 07, 2013, 05:32 PM:

youtube;

33 seconds to 40 seconds.

The rest is just crap set-up with equally rubbish blue screen.

So, was that a real horse?

Vic Armstrong? One of the best in the business?

Looks like a 20ft drop maybe?

Lee, can you reference that book for us?

Can't believe a bloke like Vic Armstrong would seriously endanger a horse, but still, it looks...interesting.

Ah, well, these day, it would all be CGI.

Oh, and Hugh, "Creatures Being Harmed For Entertainment"...wasn't that the tag for Big Brother. [Smile]

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on February 08, 2013, 03:13 AM:

Vic Armstrong book 'World's Greatest Stuntman'

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 08, 2013, 08:48 AM:

You have to wonder just how many horses had to be shot after stunt falls in the thousands of westerns and war films that have been made over the years.

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on February 08, 2013, 10:29 AM:

Since the subject came up:
In the original silent version of "Ben-Hur", apparently up to 100 horses were killed during the chariot sequence...the story goes that they weren't all fatally injured, it was just easier to put them down and get some more...all this courtesy of second-unit director B. Reeves Eason.

Eason got a second shot at mass animal cruelty with "Charge of The Light Brigade"...at this point, people started complaining.

It can be done safely with real animals, you've just got to know how (and care enough to want to.)

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on February 08, 2013, 12:03 PM:

Didn't they tie the rear legs together and fasten a rope to them and set off at full gallop.

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on February 08, 2013, 12:52 PM:

That was the "flying "W" technique used in so many films, horrible stuff:
Loose ropes between the two front legs and between the rear legs, then a single rope in the middle tied to the other two and going back to a wooden post.

You measured out the trip rope from post to camera so it would tighten "in shot", then set the horse going full speed until the rope yanked all four legs out, resulting in the horse crashing down, usually on its neck...

It's easy to see when it's a humane takedown, because the stunt rider pulls the reins of the horse, turning its head, and the horse knows, from long training, to drop itself sideways to the ground safely.

What still amazes me is how long the "W" was allowed to be used.

Claus.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 08, 2013, 01:45 PM:

Which silent film was it that a bunch of people were drowned during a flood sequence? I forget which film it was. (sorry about getting off track, OK, back on track now ...)

I was surprised, upon watching "Never Say Never Again", to see that Rowan Atkinson, Mr. Bean himself was in that film! You tend to associate him with the 90's and beyond, but there he was as the agent in contact with Mr. Bond while in the "field"!

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on February 08, 2013, 02:05 PM:

The film you're referring to Osi, was "Noah's Ark",where huge tanks of water were loosed upon the unwary stuntmen, at least
three were killed, and many more injured.In the original "Ben- Hur", the Italian extras handed in their clothes and were given
the costumes, togas etc for the epic sea battle being filmed by
the second unit.Unfortunately one of the ships sank, the unit manager fearing that this would not go down well, had the extras
clothes burned,thinking that they had all drowned.Fortunately the men had swam to a nearby island and were rescued by a tramp steamer. On learning what had happened, the men
understandably were not pleased and MGM had to pay for their
silence.So obviously the studios were not that concerned with
human life, let alone animals.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 08, 2013, 02:07 PM:

quote:
The film you're referring to Osi, was "Noah's Ark",where huge tanks of water were loosed upon the unwary stuntmen,...

An excellent picture though. I watched it a few months back. I have a nice copy, complete with overture.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on February 09, 2013, 08:18 AM:

That must be a very rare print Michael, I've only ever seen it once
over thirty years ago on TV, which was very fortunate as I'd just
read about it in John Brosnan's book "Movie Magic".

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 09, 2013, 12:44 PM:

It's not a film print, Hugh. DVD. I think it's available from Warner Archive. It's well worth buying.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on April 03, 2013, 09:07 AM:

Never Say never Again is now out on Blu-Ray and wonder what people make of it?

Posted by Jonathan Trevithick (Member # 3066) on April 04, 2013, 11:58 AM:

Strange this topic should come up again now. I'm picking up a 16mm print of it tomorrow, although I have no idea yet regarding condition. I will post some pics when i've viewed it.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on April 07, 2013, 02:17 PM:

Good to hear you have found a 16mm print.
The blu-ray is excellent with a couple of nice docs on it as well. As expected the horse falling in the water shot is missing but hey a good job on the transfer.

Posted by Jonathan Trevithick (Member # 3066) on April 08, 2013, 02:02 AM:

Hi Lee. My print had the horse dropping moment. I've never felt this sequence quite worked in the context of a Bond film. There's a similar horse sequence in Terry Gilliam's version of Baron Munchausen which seems to be more in keeping with the fantasy elements of that film.

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on April 14, 2013, 11:12 AM:

I like Never say Never is there super 8 trailer around?

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on April 15, 2013, 03:50 AM:

Yes there was a S8 trailer Laksmi.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on April 15, 2013, 07:27 AM:

It's actually part of a This Is Cinemascope preview reel with Supergirl and a few others.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on April 15, 2013, 07:36 AM:

Derann did release the trl but it was a flat version, more like a
teaser, but the 2x600 'scope was a welcome addition.

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