8mm Forum: Lost films.

This is topic Lost films. in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on July 11, 2013, 02:36 PM:

I don't know how many of you are interested in the terrible loss of many films from the silent and early sound days, but, judging by various net sites I've come across people actually feel a sense of loss when they read about films that they'll never get a chance to see.
In actual fact, some of these titles have been partly recovered, some with sound or picture missing, and in one case, the Gainsborough 1931 version of 'The Hound of the Baskervilles', long thought lost because of the missing soundtrack, now lays in the National Film Archive. 'The Hound's' track has been recovered and gifted to the BFI by the Rank organisation, and a complete copy is available to view on request.
I've written to the archive department and suggested that such titles, including the incomplete 1931 'Ghost Train' could be issued on DVD's, as I believe there is a market that would snap anything on offer up. They say that they will consider it, but I'm sure that if enough people got in touch they would take it more seriously.
If interested the email address is Sonia.Mullet@bfi.org.uk

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 11, 2013, 02:44 PM:

I'm not sure if I would be interested in an incomplete film, but would look favourably at 1930/40 British sound films.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 11, 2013, 03:48 PM:

Greetings Allan, I don't think I would be interested in purchasing an incomplete film, but I am concerned at the loss of any film. Old British films rarely get an outing on TV. I have noticed in the last 6 years or so that not so many vintage films British or American are being shown, the Bogarts, Cagneys. When was the last time you saw a film starring Ronald Shiner (Reluctant Heroes, Worm's Eye View). One British film I would love to see is 'The Mystery of the Mary Celeste' (1935), starring Bela Lugosi, and made by Hammer Productions.
P.M. Films of Stoke Poges used to sell copies of The Wrecker, a 1928 outing from Gainsborough Pictures. I had just bought a copy when it was announced that the 2 missing reels had shown up, and it was the first time the film had been seen in its entirety since the 1950s. You may remember an announcement in one of the Amateur movie mags in the late 70s/early 80s, that a lost Laurel and Hardy film had turned up as a 9.5mm copy. It was being carefully blown up to 35mm, and the French captions replaced with English titles.

In 1970, The Observer gave away a series of supplements on the history of the cinema, these could be put in a custom made binder. They stated that a British film 'The Tunnel' (1935), starring Richard Dix, and C. Aubrey Smith, was 'A sci-fi film, now lost'. The film is available to view in full on archive.org, and recently I saw a 16mm copy for sale on Ebay. I can find no evidence of it ever being a lost film; it doesn't appear among the listings of such films on Wikipedia.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on July 11, 2013, 04:22 PM:

I agree with you blokes so I took the time to email Sonia. At least it's a start.

PatD

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on July 11, 2013, 04:30 PM:

I think Ghost Train and The Wrecker are both available on dvd Pat?

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 11, 2013, 04:33 PM:

I know The Wrecker is available from Grahame Newnham, comes with a booklet. The Southern Railway closed the line and staged a real crash.

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on July 12, 2013, 07:56 AM:

The Ghost Train that is available on DVD is the 1941 version. Apparently the last full copy of the 1931 film was owned by comedian Bob Monkhouse on 16mm. Much of his collection was seized by the police pending a court case, and this particular film was destroyed. This must have been the philistine branch, as opposed to Special Branch!
Apparently what remains of his vast collection is still being sorted through by Kaleidoscope Publishing.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on July 12, 2013, 08:10 AM:

Its thanks to Bob Monkhouse that certain TV shows, that would
have been lost forever, had been recorded by him on early video
tape, he was one of the first to have this facility in the UK. His
extensive collection of film was indeed vast, as was his videos.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 12, 2013, 10:36 AM:

I remember years ago it was said that Bob Monkhouse had one of the largest film collections in private hands. There was some legal trouble over his collection, I don't remember what it was, I think it may have been over royalties. I think he had a show called Mad, Mad, Movies.
What was the point of destroying a film?, I would have thought any seized assets would have been sold off.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on July 12, 2013, 10:49 AM:

There have been a couple of documentaries on TV recently Robert,
the last one said that Bob had appeared in court for supposedly
lending Terry Wogans son a print of a certain film. I remember
the reporting at the time in the press, which did state that it
involved copying of a print of "Goldfinger". I don't know how much
of this is true, but Bob was acquited after a long court case.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 12, 2013, 12:55 PM:

Just looked at this version on IMDB and it stated that the film was destroyed over copyright issues. What had Monkhouse done wrong. Had he viewed his films in the comfort of his own house there shouldn't be a problem, providing he wasn't charging anyone a fee to watch.
I was re-checking the UK copyright laws, as my father was a writer. For films and books the copyright laws last 70 years. Many people are selling copies of films taken off the tv and claiming it is out of copyright because it is 50 years old. You also need permission from the actors or their next of kin.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 12, 2013, 12:58 PM:

I would LOVE to see a print of the Edison films production of "Frankenstein", the first on film, (I think the film was 1908) and from what I know of the film, all that survives is one iamge from the film, one frame or screenshot.

It's been years since I've read up on this film? has this film ever been actually found?

There's a question for the Dino to answer! He'd probably know better than anyone else!

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 12, 2013, 12:59 PM:

I didn't know that there were lost talkies. I knew, of course, about lost silent films and I am always happy when I hear that an unknown copy is found.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 12, 2013, 02:35 PM:

Anyone know the story of a huge collection of silent films under the ice in the Arctic. I was told that an American plane was transporting these films (possibly in WW2) and it crashed and is buried under the ice. Only a small part of the total output of silent films survive, part of the reason being that when sound came out, no one thought there would be any interest in these old films. I have seen a sound on film clip by Lee de Forest, which I think dates around 1909.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on July 12, 2013, 02:44 PM:

Osi,
Edisons Frankenstein turned up back in the 70's. It's easily found on You Tube, etc.

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on July 12, 2013, 02:50 PM:

Thanks Pasquale, if enough people show an interest the BFI may feel more inclined to dig into their archives and who knows what they may come up with? It is, after all our inheritance, wherever we are.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 13, 2013, 02:24 AM:

The story I heard about films under the ice in Alaska was that Alaska was the last of a sound film's life for showing and as transportation was expensive it was thought unnecessary to return the shown films to their distributors who didn't want them back anyway.

They were left outside the cinemas and eventually covered under snow and ice. Not so long ago the films were discovered in perfect condition.

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on July 13, 2013, 03:51 AM:

Crumbs, sounds interesting. Trouble is we seldom get follow ups to such interesting items.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on July 13, 2013, 07:01 AM:

The print of "Frankenstein", the one where Charles Ogle played
the monster,still exists Osi. In fact William K. Everson, famous film Historian, shared a
taxi with the owner,who had a gun placed carefully on top of the film can during the trip!

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