8mm Forum: Detroit Bankrupt

This is topic Detroit Bankrupt in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 19, 2013, 06:50 AM:

I have just been watching the lunch-time news that Detroit has become the largest US city to file for bankruptcy, with debts of at least $18bn. It's said that public services are nearing collapse and about 70,000 properties lie abandoned.

Do any of our members live there or nearby? What has caused all the problems? Do they no longer manufacture motor cars?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 19, 2013, 09:19 AM:

The biggest part of the story is that the world is always changing. Detroit was what it was because it has great access to iron ore being shipped on the Great Lakes so it's easy to get the raw materials in place to manufacture thousands of cars every week.

That's still true and cars are still manufactured there, but technologies like air conditioning mean it's now possible to have automotive plants further south in places like Tenessee and Mexico.

These days, consumers are open to more car brands than just the Big Three manufacturers so a great many of our cars are built be companies in Japan, South Korea and sooner or later China.

Last February I bought a Honda Civic: engine manuactured in Japan, final assembly in Canada.

-no Detroit involved whatsoever. (Great little car though...)

I spent a lot of time in Dearborn when I was involved in an electric car program at Ford. Remarkable town: you pull into a restaurant parking lot and 90% of the cars are Fords and there's not a lot else!

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 19, 2013, 09:42 AM:

Steve
Are your car imports cheaper than the local products?
I have recently bought a Hyundai which was made in India and its purchase price was probably 20% cheaper than a comparable car made in the UK.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 19, 2013, 09:49 AM:

I think the prices are competitive with eash other, but I bought mine because in that class it has the best reputation. I've reached the stage of life where "dependable" is the thing to be!

My biggest gripe with the thing is it's so smooth it may earn me a speeding ticket someday!

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 19, 2013, 10:17 AM:

Maurice, I worked for Austin Rover for 11 years: we built left hand drive for export. One of the gripes was that it was cheaper to go to Belgium, buy a Cowley, Oxon, made car; bring it back to the UK, have it converted to right hand drive, than it was to buy a right hand drive car under the Employee purchase Scheme.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on July 19, 2013, 12:04 PM:

A sad state of affairs and I really feel for those folks out there, it's
usually the hard working people that suffer.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 19, 2013, 12:37 PM:

It's literally emblematic of the U'S's downfall as a power broker in the world (well, I'm sure some nations would yell "yay!" at that) ...

We've been out-sourcing job after job for decades and have been bringing in import after import, made for less, sold for less and that didn't help the US auto industry or otherwise.

There was a time when "Made in the USA" meant something, but even the totally American brand names, "G.E" and such are quite often products made in china, with a U'S' label stuck on them.

Of course, this is not true of just the U.S. but sad, all the same.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 19, 2013, 01:32 PM:

50 years ago the USA was the world leader in so many areas. Just look at electronics for example. Remember Zenith, Sylvania, RCA, Westinghouse, Ampex, Polaroid? RCA was years ahead of the world in broadcast color TV. Zenith invented the black matrix TV cathode ray tube, and the first ever TV remote. Sylvania invented the compact flash bulb and flash cubes. Ampex invented the first video recorder. All gone, sold out to the Japanese and Chinese. I read yesterday that the future of television is gong to be OLED displays (Organic LED). Guess who did a lot of the ground breaking work on OLEDS more than 30 years ago? Eastman Kodak. All patents now sold off.
I remember when I worked for Litton Electron Device Division in Williamsport Pa back in the 1970's. One day an entourage of Japanese business men and Engineers visited our plant to study all our manufacturing techniques and designs for microwave ovens. Litton were world leaders in microwave technology at that time. We were told to tell them everything they wanted to know. Now today, all commercial microwave magnetrons and ovens are made in the far east and none in the USA, and Litton is no more.
I challenge anyone to go into any store in the USA and find anything that was genuinely manufactured in the USA, not just rebadged with honorable names like RCA, Sylvanai or Bell and Howell. I bought some Rockport shoes recently. You know, the legendary shoe company in Rockport Maine. Guess what, inside the shoe it said 'Made in Indonesia"!
The bottom line is that US business's have sold out the farm for big short term profits. Now there is no going back. We are becoming a nation of paper pushers, and no nation can survive for long with no manufacturing base.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 19, 2013, 01:56 PM:

The famous York Barbell Company had their own foundry in Pennsylvania, and exported all over the world, now the plates are made in China; very poor quality, they chip easily and are not finished in baked enamel. Bob Hoffman must be turning in his grave. Same story with the Weider empire; don't know if their Yorkshire (UK) foundry is still in operation, but their plates for the US were made in Taiwan.

Paul, your comments are very similar to those I made about the UK on another thread. On there I was accused of negative thinking.

It's sad what has become of Bell & Howell, one of the greatest names in manufacturing history. All the company records have been destroyed.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on July 19, 2013, 02:06 PM:

It’s a very small gesture but I can tell you my late father who was commissioned by the ministry to project public information films around smaller villages in Kent during the war used to absolutely swear by Bell and Howell projection equipment to the point where he also had a B&H screen such was the excellence of equipment. We are thinking of you here in the UK.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 19, 2013, 02:14 PM:

Your right Lee. Bell&Howell were the Rolls Royce's of movie camera and projection equipment. Everything they made is, I am sure, running perfectly to this day. They were right up there with Paillard Bolex. Now this once proud name is stuck on cheap electric razors and hair dryers imported from China! [Frown]

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 19, 2013, 02:29 PM:

Paul, I am a big fan of Bell & Howell. Arthur Howell had a brilliant mind. You can see some of his patents online. They used to boast that not one of their Filmo 70s had ever worn out, they also at one time gave a lifetime guarantee. I have 4 filmos.

I'm interested to know why they allowed Mitchell to take over when sound came along.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 19, 2013, 02:32 PM:

I remember the Zenith factory. I used to drive past it...when I worked in Mexico!

It seems that even there it wasn't competitive with the Far East, and it closed a few years ago.

The smarter companies are keeping at least some manufacturing here. Having all your manufacturing someplace else means you are one political upheaval away from being completely shut down. If the upheaval is at home it might not matter if you have a factory or not!

My last job had plants in Germany, the UK, China and Mexico, but the headquarters here is considered the anchor. This is where the development is done and the products ramped up to at least maturity in manufacturing.

These days I work or the US Department of Energy. We feel we are at least a decade away from being moved overseas! [Wink]

Posted by John Davis (Member # 1184) on July 19, 2013, 02:35 PM:

I think Detroit's sheer scale is what makes this so shocking. All over the US and the rest of the world are towns which enjoyed fantastic growth but then fell back once the boom had passed. But not on the scale of Detroit (a lot of us will have seen the iconic buildings, now derelict http://www.marchandmeffre.com/detroit/index.html )

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 19, 2013, 02:44 PM:

Look at Boeing. The new 787 Dreamliner is assembled in Seattle, but most of the parts and major subassemblies come from all over the world.
I like Boeing planes a lot. The 747 is probably the best commercial jumbo jet ever made. But you could not pay me enough to fly on the Dreamliner with its all plastic composite structure and Lithium Ion batteries!

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on July 19, 2013, 05:50 PM:

America,for all it's faults, and every country has them, is a nation
that should be very proud of it's achievements.The American people are known to be very generous, and of late, like other
countries, have been given a raw deal by the movers and shakers.
A nation like the USA, rich in resources and innovation, will regain
it's place, but like the UK,It'll have to start using the wealth of skills
in it's own shores,making stuff for export,rather than importing
from China. Charity gentlemen begins at home, you can't be
expected to fix your neighbours house until your own is in repair.I just hope there's light at the end of the tunnel soon,
everyone, keep your eyes peeled for a tunnel!
PS. i still think the B&H to be the gentlest projector ever made.
As a PPS, one of the most moving tales I EVER read on this forum, concerned the late Father of David M. Bellew, this was
recounted in the thread on drive in cinemas, this man, as David
told us, came from his place of work totally knackered (worn out), all he wanted to do was go to bed, his children wanted to
go see a movie, so he cleans himself up and takes his family to
see their film.The poor man slept through it he was so tired.
Fathers like Mr Bellew, are true Gems, and when I read this posting from David some weeks ago, I had tears in my eyes, I
was choked, indeed, read the lads post. My point is this, that man was a supreme example of the hardworking American
father.Now those same chaps, wouldn't have a job! The same
tale no doubt for all those people in Detroit.There is something wrong with economics somewhere when a Great City like Detroit
is bankrupt, and it isn't the working mans fault.
PPPS. I still hate Google!

[ July 19, 2013, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Hugh Thompson Scott ]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on July 20, 2013, 12:11 AM:

Recent political posts deleted, topic closed.

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