8mm Forum: While we are on the subject of Beaulieu

This is topic While we are on the subject of Beaulieu in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 12, 2015, 07:05 AM:

While we are on the subject of the Beaulieu 708el, I thought it best to post another snippet that cost me dearly when I very first
acquired my machine.

Please refer to items 7,8,9 & 10 from the drawing below for what I am about to advise.

The upper sprocket lower plastic guide on these machines (item 7) has a very powerful set of springs (items 9 & 10) controlling the guide to its usual most upward position.

Item 8 is an adjustable jacking screw for this guide. It's purpose is to set the guide 2 film thicknesses away from the lower half of the upper sprocket.

If this screw is left out or simply missing or even maladjusted this machine WILL scratch all of your precious film collection I guarantee. I know this from some very painful experiences from when I first acquired my machine.

The fault on my machine was not down to any of the above factors and was therefore more difficult to spot.

The fault on my machine was down to the fact that the tapped hole in the plastic lower guide (item 7) was excessively worn due to the guide being slapped back in place after cleaning it inbetween screenings. (not by me I hasten to add!)

Then what was happening (which incidentally took me longer than I would have liked to spot), was the screw was changing position each time I was cleaning the guide due to the worn thread in the plastic guide.

Solution:
To ensure this never ever happens to your machine simply place an M2 nut onto the end of the M2 screw (item8) with the screw wound all the way into the guide so maximum screw thread protrudes through the guide.
Once you have done this the machine will NEVER scratch film from this region again so long as you routinely clean the guide (Obviously).

Please see photographs and drawing below:

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 12, 2015, 04:34 PM:

Andrew, do yourself a favor and purchase a Fumeo, you'll never look back trust me.

Very poorly made machines just ask MR GS himself [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 12, 2015, 06:02 PM:

Yes I know all about Kevin's view of these. They are not everyone's cup of tea I know Robert. After all no pulse sync, only 150w lamp, no optical sound etc etc.

Kevin bought a lemon seemingly. He started having issues almost immediately with the capstan drive mechanism.

If you have a good set of engineering skills and appreciate fine well crafted goods from quality materials, they are the perfect solution for their respective owners.

If you don't believe me, just ask Alan Rik, Rob Young or Jon Addams to name but three

A fumeo is noisier,older design orientated and has no Stereo model available as standard but without doubt, is still a very desirable machine.Equally, there is only one rare model that records and even then, only in mono of course.

It is also nowhere near as aesthetically pleasing as these fine specimens either.

I have had mine around 15 months now. My seller was an intermediate, he had a totally unbiased opinion when handing it over. In my opinion, the seller is one of THE most respected people left in the cine world and ran a Fumeo for 20years in his business but his words were, when handing it over to me
"it's the Rolls Royce of Super 8mm projectors".

15 months in after quite a few teething problems, I have no reason to disbelieve him Robert.

The Beaulieu 708el CD Stereo is simply a beautiful machine in use when treated in the manner it deserves. It is also THE only Super 8mm model that can handle 2200ft Stereo full features and show them in one run.

Everyone on here and in life in general, have their opinions, I am just glad that over the years I have learned the hard way of what to trust in life and indeed...what not.

In this machine, it most certainly gains my full trust!

I have a quote from "Jungle Book" running alongside me on here, it came by one or two things I found ironic on here at the time,maybe after tomorrow, based on Roberts post, I should change it to another from the film.."Trust In Me" , for the time being, the one I already have, is most apt I feel [Big Grin]

[ March 13, 2015, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 03:48 AM:

Well everyone has a favourite machine but the Fumeo is the only company that made both Super 8, 16mm & 35mm machines for professional use.

I have both GS, Beaulieu but a Fumeo Xenon is a class in its own.

One thing that puts me off with Beaulieu are the plastic guides

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 05:36 AM:

Plastic guides are fine on these not like GS.
Only used.in certain places.. Precision machined steel where.matters.

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 09:09 AM:

I also don't like the plastic back cover. Hopefully you've up graded the crude plastic spindles they use that can easily break whilst changing a reel.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 09:23 AM:

They are all just fine thanks Robert.

I have no idea how you could possibly snap off a reel hub just from fitting a Beaulieu reel????

Also i have spoke on here before about the BENEFITS of the rear cover being made from what it is as opposed to metal.

[ March 13, 2015, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 09:37 AM:

As you know plastic becomes brittle over time with general wear and tear. Maybe something to look at for the future.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 11:29 AM:

Robert i have loads of spare parts for my machine and we now have the benefit of Edwin offering us virtually any spare part we could ever need nowadays when made of plastic.

These machines have never been so well supported in the last 20 years as they are today all thanks to the efforts and requests of people who love these machines on here.

[ March 13, 2015, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 13, 2015, 11:46 AM:

One thing about the GS1200, the mechanical parts are really robust. In fact, now I think about it, I have never had a mchanical part fail on either of my GS's, except for that little rewind gear. All the knobs that control the amplifier are machined from Aluminum, the plastic guides are really thick high quality material, the rollers are all machined metal, and the motors and solenoids look like they were designed for really heavy duty applications. No, the weak point of the GS is definately the elctronics that controls all this stuff.

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 12:10 PM:

Paul, my personal opinion on the GS the design and engineering is made to complicated. For instance why do you need four motors? Along with the complicated electronics.

Don't get me wrong it's a wonderful beautiful machine (I have two), but like a classic car it sometimes can get temperamental to the point of effecting its running ability.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 13, 2015, 12:21 PM:

I think we can all agree with that Robert. Whenever I study the design of the GS it is to me like the designer broke all the functions of the machine down into separate self contained sub systems and then designed an electronic system to control them all. Kind of like a 'brute force' design approach, instead of a clever and therefore simpler and more reliable one.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on March 13, 2015, 02:07 PM:

Its still the best looking and sounding super 8 projector for the money ever made, the fumeo cannot touch it sonically or build quality, the dreadful board in the fumeo 9119, like a rats nest of wires, it looks like an old valve radio from the fifties. its very much like there cars of the 70's, you got a lot for your money. I remember the rhetoric even then, all these gimmicks, radio cassette, electric windows, cigarette lighters etc, and people bought them by the millions. You don't get a omelette without cracking a few eggs.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 03:19 PM:

The GS, without any shadow of doubt is the most sophisticated super 8mm Projector ever made.

Whether the end result all round, is the best, is debatable as many on here discuss.

Nevertheless, for those with the knowledge, expertise to fit one or two modifications to the path and the wherewithal to update components that have now been superseded by better ones.. then these are a very fine machine indeed.

My selection process with the projectors I now own and value is, in this day and age, purely based on having a realistic ability to keep any of them running for the next twenty or so years.

If the year today was 1980 or even 1990,I would love to own one of these.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on March 13, 2015, 03:35 PM:

They're quirky machines, whatever you choose, that's why we love em !!!!.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 03:41 PM:

True Paul or else we would surely all be Sat in front of one of those boring rectangular white, black or silver silent boxes that place ultra bright, ultra sharp vivid beautiful digital images on our big screens. Either that or one of those twice as bright Bauer's! [Big Grin]

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 04:15 PM:

Or twice as bright Fumeos the choice of professionals! [Big Grin]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 04:24 PM:

How can I or any collector of Super 8mm film be described as a professional? It's an amateur film gauge for lovers of home movies.
This is a forum page for the Super 8mm gauge collectors to have discussions about everything to do with a non professional hobby.
Therefore in all honesty I just cannot see the relevance of the last post unless the Fumeo Super 8 machines are somehow used professionally in commercial cinemas.

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 04:41 PM:

You are actually coming across very negative in your assumption?

I can only assume you don't know much about Fumeo Super 8 machines or the companies history to comment.

Or if they are used in commercial cinemas which i know they are. I thought this forum was all about sharing your experiences and expertise regardless of it being professional or amateur and sharing your knowledge regardless of what your views are to fellow collectors.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 04:46 PM:

Wow, this is becoming a Labour of love...it's a Super 8mm forum.
Of course Super 8mm was never intended as a professional gauge Fumeo or otherwise.

If you wish to discuss professional gauge film and equipment there are other forums in place and a section on here to do so.

I cannot explain myself any clearer than that Robert.
Nothing negative...
Just a place for everything and everything has its place...simple as that.

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 05:52 PM:

Glad you’re finding this a labour of love Andrew and yes this is a 8mm forum which can be used by anybody, professional or non professional.

Guess you don’t know that much about Super 8, just google it and you’ll find that these days it’s classed as a professional gauge.

Just a place for everything and everyone thing to be put in their place.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 13, 2015, 06:00 PM:

There is no doubt that the Beaulieu machines are among the best ever made, if not the best.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2015, 06:24 PM:

Goodnight Robert, sleep well tonight now then knowing you have well and truly put me in my place, wherever that might be??

Night night and God Bless all.

Back tomorrow for you amateurs and professionals alike, with yet another simply sinterlating episode of the Bob on Bobby & Handy Andy show!... giving you yet more advice, top tips on what to own and what not, plus exclusive news of what's coming next at your local multiplex all on Super 8 at a blistering 5·6k Ansi!! Now what did I do with that Prozac?

I bet y'all can't wait, I know I can!!

Oh wouldn't you just know it now Dominique has decided he won't be swapping his Beaulieu either. What a deluded bunch we all are! [Big Grin]

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 13, 2015, 06:54 PM:

In all the many years i have been on this forum, it's now certainly changed for the worst and become the WoodCock forum show !?!

If you ask me it's all getting very tiresem and boring!

Just ask the people who don't bother posting on this forum anymore because of it.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 14, 2015, 12:55 AM:

The once ailing member numbers on here that now grow steadily by the week, suggest otherwise.
Perhaps it's just a change in readers and posters interests and attitudes that change as the decades roll by.

Now I feel I am back at my infants school where everyone used to giggle at the word Cock when the register was being taken.
Ahhh small things eh..

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 14, 2015, 08:09 AM:

Hopefully one day you'll grow up !?!

Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on March 14, 2015, 09:34 AM:

Girls, girls!!!!!
Or, in the words of the immortal Michael Winner...
"Calm down, dears!"

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 14, 2015, 09:46 AM:

Back on projectors... I re-started the hobby in 2007 and I got a Beaulieu in 2010. I can see myself working on my Beaulieu 708 and have done a couple of things already. There were the new parts from Wittner that I have purchased. So I have new sound heads, gate parts and guides. The Beaulieu is a long-term bet that I can believe will still be running in 20 years. I had the opportunity to get a GS Xenon. It is amazing but I'll admit to being a bit scared of it. Make friends with a expert if you aren't one yourself, I say. But you can enjoy more than one projector. I love my Eumig 938 although the gate is plastic! Each has foibles.

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 14, 2015, 09:47 AM:

Martin, It's only a commercial [Smile]

That's the nice thing about different manufacturers/projectors they all have their good points and bad points. It's really what works for you and how you show film.

Take the Fumeo 9145/x500 also known as the 2000, which is a 500 watt xenon Stereo machine with 750m take up, along with standard manual threading. It's built like a tank and one of the best projectors i have been fortunately enough to install.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 14, 2015, 10:58 AM:

Nice to see someone on here talk some sense today Steven

[ March 14, 2015, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on March 14, 2015, 11:03 AM:

I've read the write up on that fumeo 9145 projector, and it is a beast of a machine, and the most expensive super 8 projector ever made !!, it weighs in at 100lbs, not that portable then, but looks the full monty, long play, stereo sound, xenon lamp, with all metal guides, and plastic only used on the buttons by all accounts. This is one machine I would love to see in the flesh, its a pity the 9119 doesn't reflect these high end fumeo products, the finish is not that good, and the sound is not that great really, just for me lets down the fact that they produced such fantastic high machine's. I wonder how many were sold ?.

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 14, 2015, 11:18 AM:

These were based on the 1980's Fumeos 16mm counterparts i.e the Fumeo HL3000 one of which i also have, with the projector head being the same designed.

It also has a safety cut off device when the film comes to the end of the reel/show. Along with a 45 watt amplifier to boot.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 14, 2015, 11:26 AM:

If any member has a copy of International Movie Making, issue 49, dated October 2007, there is an interesting article by Ignacio Benedeti Corzo called "Living 20 Years with a Fumeo 9145."

He says that he bought it direct from the factory as all the Company's range of projectors were built individually, like a masterpiece. His 9145 was the 9145 HD2000 Stereo Pro X4, with Puls sync sound. The lens fitted was an Isco Vario MC8 f/1.1, 11-30mm.

From the pictures accompanying the article I must say that the projector looked quite awesome.

Click on my link below to see a picture of Ignacio's Fumeo in his projection room.

http://www.super8data.com/database/projectors_list/projectors_fumeo/fumeo_9145.htm

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on March 14, 2015, 11:31 AM:

Spot on Maurice, that's the article, its a good read up too, this man certainly knows his stuff on super 8, and having access to such machines, he as kindly imparted his knowledge to the reader, very good article indeed.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 14, 2015, 11:32 AM:

That top end Fumeo 9145, now, you see my attitude is, I want that one as well...

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on March 14, 2015, 11:39 AM:

If you find one Steve, I 'll get the forklift warmed up to get it in your transit van. haha.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 14, 2015, 04:33 PM:

These are simply fantastic machines the 9145. When Phil tried to introduce the Classic Fumeo as a prototype, this is the machine he should have requested as a new build from them in the era he did it in.

It would have been way beyond all too many of us to ever have been able to afford, however, so was the Classic and it did little to impress given that it needed separate amplication and that simply wasn't available on the day of the public introduction.

Had he had been showing one of these off, even with a ridiculous price tag attached to it, for those that insist of the very best of everything and for those with extreme reserves of surplus cash, this would surely have sold and would have been legendary with a yr2k facelift in the audio department.

Simply a stunning, dare I say it professional Super 8mm machine, who wouldn't love one of these stashed away in their separate cinema booth after a lottery win?

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on March 14, 2015, 05:35 PM:

Yes the 9145 is legendary and is probably the only truly Professional Super 8 Machine that existed. However for the amount paid it better be! I think Ignacio, the owner of the machine told me that it cost upwards of $9000? And it was designed NOT to be moved once in place. If money was no object than yes. This is the machine to have. Truly designed to run forever with never a scratch on the print. His machine had Optical Capability and Stereo Sound.
But for the rest of us...
Ignacio who has many of the best machines ever made..and some doubles said that if you were to have just one machine..and only one..he said he would take the Beaulieu 708 Studio. He said that when he purchased his Fumeo they were still taking orders for them but once it was sold to another company the quality went down. He had a 9119 that they had converted to HTI specs and he wasn't happy with it.
As always the best machine is going to the best one for you. If you believe the best machine is one that is the quietest one...Bauer! If you need pulse sync...GS1200!
2200 ft reels. .micrometric focusing and Stereo..Beaulieu! 2200 ft reels ..micrometric focusing...all metal manual threading..Fumeo!
We get heated in discussion about these machines but its because were all passionate about them. That is a great thing that we have fabulous machines to be passionate about I think.
And when our beloved machine die one day...we can always explore the beauty of another. My next one may be a Chinon 4100. Wait..I think I had one of those once...

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 14, 2015, 05:45 PM:

You make a very wise Philosopher Rik, you are so correct on very many levels. [Wink]

I am a very passionate person as you've probably gathered who loves straightforward, no nonsense transparent decent people.

I call a spade a spade and with that concept, I really enjoy surrounding myself amongst apparently like minded people,such as yourself.

I have no issue with anyone's criticism s on anything in life,whether it's my opinion or not, so long as they can sensibly substantiate their argument [Wink]

Good luck hunting down the TOTR Chinon Rik! [Big Grin]

For me my ambitions in life lie simply in a late Studio model and a Hti one day. I've got 12 to 15 years between today and retirement so I reckon I just about stand a chance between now and then with lady luck on my side.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on March 14, 2015, 09:07 PM:

Of course Alan's perspective is right on. We are all truly lucky to be able to own one or more of these magnificent high-end machines, and of course being devoted to the perfection of film projection it becomes easy to find minor, and perhaps not so minor, flaws in their design. All this is part of the fun of the hobby, the ability to scrutinize and compare the designs of these great projectors, and speculate where the designers missed a step or two and how we can make some modest improvements. As Alan says, we all have our favourites, and it is great to be able to exchange our experiences with these different machines.

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