8mm Forum: Super 8 Blu-ray

This is topic Super 8 Blu-ray in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on April 05, 2015, 10:13 PM:

After a quick search I don't think we did a review...so here it is. Last night I projected it through the Panasonic VP and it does look really good. The 5:1 sound in particular is excellent. The film came and went pretty quick at the cinema in 2011, but this time round I had more time and less stress of those earthquakes during 2011 to deal with.

As a result I enjoyed watching it a lot more and personally its a film that tends to grow on you...anyway I highly recommend it after all its called Super 8......

Has anyone got a nice "35mm print" of it, to go with my really neat and long 35mm Scope trailer "as in photo"? [Wink]

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on April 06, 2015, 06:01 AM:

On the 35mm I think I see 3 soundtracks. The original optical ones, then dolby between the spockets. Which are those down edges?

Posted by Ricky Daniels (Member # 95) on April 06, 2015, 07:37 AM:

Hi David,
If you're referring to the outer edges of the stock (outside edges of the sprockets) that's no soundtrack, just the cyan printing mask latent image.
Best,
Rick

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 06, 2015, 10:13 AM:

I may be wrong, but I believe those are in fact outer tracks for the SDDS digital tracks for the Sony digital system.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on April 06, 2015, 03:05 PM:

I'd also say it's the SDDS. It's certainly in the right place according to Wikipedia here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Dynamic_Digital_Sound

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 3812) on April 07, 2015, 02:36 AM:

Certainly "looks" like a SDDS track and was always hard to tell by simply looking at the track. One really HAD to refer to the leader details on the sound formats to be absolutely sure that SDDS was encoded.
Was always a hit and miss sound format once a print had done a season or two in the complexes as by the time the copies were available to smaller sites the gate runners had worn much of the track info away.
The Dolby tracks suffered similarly with high error rates which only left the DTS track unscathed as it sat alongside the optical stereo and nothing normally touched those areas. The problems with DTS was that the discs would often go missing and NOT be in the print boxes when stuff arrived on site...Grrr.

In the example posted there is NO DTS track used but it sat midway between the image and the optical stereo tracks.
IMHO the DTS sound was by far the best of all...much crisper.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on April 07, 2015, 03:30 AM:

I agree Lindsay regarding DTS over Dolby Digital. I have the DTS disks for "Super 8"... just need the feature and the DTS sound processor bits and bobs to go with it [Smile]

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 3812) on April 07, 2015, 04:48 AM:

Graham,

Good luck trying to find any of that stuff nowadays.. Dunno what NZ was like but 35mm stuff in OZ was simply hacked to bits and tossed into the dumper bins for scrap.
There were very few sites if any that had stuff removed with a view to either saving or re-installing.
One cinema I know of had all its 35mm plant pushed to one side of the bio box as there was no way the stuff could be easily gotten out as it was lifted in by cranes as the building was built. A steep staircase up to the bio meant that even getting the 35mm print boxes in was a bit of a challenge for staff.

I don't think that there were any DTS readers in that site at all.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on April 07, 2015, 05:00 AM:

Graham, I have a couple of spare DTS processors with bits and bobs. One is the regular DTS6 processor, the other being the DTS6AD full processor with three CD trays and optical capabilities for Dolby A and SR. I'm afraid shipping to NZ would be a killer, though...

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on April 07, 2015, 05:12 AM:

In the Odeon Multiplex I worked in, if the Dolby Digital read-out gave any problem in reproduction, the equipment automatically switched to the standard Dolby optical track.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on April 07, 2015, 05:33 AM:

Yes when Dolby Digital was introduced they did an evening's talk at the NFT about the system. They said that as the digital track was ahead of the picture if it was detected as filing the system would switch to the SR track "without the audience knowing". That statement would seem to make the digital system redundant, except for the split surround effects channels.

Oh, by the way, IMBD does show Super 8 as having SDDS sound.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on April 07, 2015, 03:33 PM:

Thanks Jean Marc [Smile]

You are right, it would be to expensive [Frown]

I will have to make do for the time being. We did have DTS in one screen at the cinema where I once worked. I wonder what happened to it [Roll Eyes]

I must admit that although Dolby Digital and DTS are very good the Kelmar analog Dolby Stereo that we used on the Bauer, and I now use on the Ernemann2 can in itself sound pretty good.

Brian In a cinema environment you really do need Dolby Digital or DTS to get the full benefit of the soundtrack, especially if its a effects film full of action [Big Grin]

...adding to that though you also need good quality amps and a speaker system to get the full spectrum of the quality of sound that Dolby Digital and DTS can give you.

Graham.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on April 07, 2015, 04:15 PM:

A good SR reader will always be better than a poorly tuned SRD head with a worn-out print with an error rate of 7+. But I'll definitely agree with you and Lindsay, DTS rocks. I love the dynamic range of that system. And the fact that (providing you get the discs), you can choose the language.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on April 07, 2015, 04:37 PM:

I remember when we first fitted DTS we were running both Peter Pan 2003 and Master and Commander in DTS. The soundtrack was fantastic I phoned the installer up with full of praise...very impressed, in fact at the time I wanted to convert the other screens to go all "DTS" [Big Grin]

....but not to be.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 07, 2015, 06:30 PM:

DTS would have been perfect for super 8mm sound. There would have been plenty of space for the optical time code along the edge presently occupied by the stripe. Indeed the time code could have been pulses on the existing mag stripe.

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 3812) on April 07, 2015, 11:25 PM:

Paul,

What you were wishing for for S8 sound running a CD disc VERY nearly came about for 16mm film as they looked for ways to add a better quality soundtrack. The DTS type system was seriously being looked at for 16mm with a time code added to the already crowded frame area on 16mm. Sadly the advent of cheap DVD's slowly killed off the use 16mm for Non Theatrical performances so it never came about. But what they looked at was an "add on" reader that could pretty much fit any 16mm unit and output the time code to a CD unit.
I am told that actual trials of the device did happen but the drop off in 16mm hire meant that it was not viable to tool up the labs to be able to add the time code to 16mm prints as they were struck.

So it died off....pity as good 16mm comes up rather sharp when blown up to 8m wide suitable for a decent auditorium with a good sound system and the accompanying DTS sound.
I frequently did 16mm shows onto a 7m wide screen using a B&H 666 with the Marc 300 lamps and the machine had a longplay device fitted that allowed 6000 foot reels to be used.
Many times I used a simple Stereo simulator in the output chain going to the site power amps and that alone gave a very really nice stereo effect/spread.
Still do it at my home cinema for 16mm and the many S8 movies that are NOT stereo so the Elmo ST1200HD is able to sort of reproduce reasonable stereo from those films.

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on April 09, 2015, 01:43 PM:

I'veoften heard rumours of experiments being done but you obviously have info that I haven't come across. Lindsay, can you tell me when, where and by whom the work was done and was the worked backed by the industry in any way? Were models produced and any public presentations made?

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 3812) on April 09, 2015, 08:57 PM:

Dave,

Cannot recall the exact time but it was around 2002 that I read the article as at that stage I was involved in 16mm Non Theatrical Distribution & the then owner of the business sent me a copy for info. I had told him how good the stereo simulator worked for some of the screenings and he thus sent me the copy of the writeup.
If my memory is correct it was a group from USA having a fiddle with the concept and they had actually done some trials getting the time code for the DTS track onto the 16mm prints such that the DTS disc from the 35mm version would run with the 16mm print.
It seemed that it did not matter if the projection process was by a single machine stopping every now and then to rethread as was very common in mine sites and the like OR a longplay equipped 16mm unit. The DTS gear was smart enough to know when the reel swaps happened and would pause itself and immediately pickup where the sound was as the next reel was started.
In Australia a LOT of 16mm shows were done in the clubs onto quite large screens so here at least there was a good market for good stereo sound.

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