This is topic Blu Ray Steelbooks, any thoughts. in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.
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Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on July 21, 2015, 06:02 AM:
Hi as sadly my feature buying days are over for at least the next seven years I now do features as many of us do on Blu Ray.
Beats film qaulity wise orverall but not the same I agree.
But lately I sort of lately as well fell in to Blu Ray Steelbooks, so now if I can find a new one reasonable enough for a film I don`t yet own, or one of my favourites I get a steelbook version.
They can be very nice looking and nice to own, handle etc and remind me of the nicer 8mm film boxes and for me oddly maybe really do ramp up the fun and feel of putting on a feature on the VP.
For instance you can get both DR Who movies in a steelbook that is lovely, one already out one on pre order.
Anyone else a bit bitten by these ?
I`m trying to keep a grip as they can be a bit addictive but have had the odd new nice one for £4/5/6/7/8.Sometimes cheaper than the usual version.
Best Mark.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 21, 2015, 09:55 AM:
I like Blu rays Mark. Their quality is very good indeed in nearly every csse of the ones i own. Somehow though, for me personally, i cannot get excited by a disc with a load of data on it.
I can spend hours making attractive covers to store a film in but seldom even look beyond the front cover on a blu ray. I also never bother watching the extras or directors take etc etc.
It is the very same story with me regarding CDs. I used to love playing 12" vinyls on a Technics Turntable but CDs just dont do it for me somehow when it comes to the sheer enjoyment and pleasure collecting or playing them.
I guess its an era thing and of course the tactile nature of owning anything analog
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 21, 2015, 11:51 AM:
i love blu ray. i have several steelbook editions. after years of collecting 8mm and 16mm i am now able to watch favourite films in great great quality. no worries re damage scratches fade etc. and excellent price too.god knows it beats me some of the quality some people will endure on 8 and 16. but everyone to their own.gone are my days of recieving dodgy prints and spending a small fortune for the privledge. had enough of that thank you very much. some really nice artwork on steelbooks so i understand people wanting and collecting them.some fabulous titles available too.
Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on July 21, 2015, 01:20 PM:
Some of the extras are quite good, giving a behind the scenes look at film making. Seeing the skill of the behind the camera people makes you see the talent they had.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 21, 2015, 02:24 PM:
Yes Paul and David, I guess I am already a minority in this day and age. As time goes by I guess I will Soon be a dodo of the home cinema world but thank goodness for now there is enough of us left to keep a forum running debating the many trials and tribulations of the crazy yet magical phonomon that is film collecting.
As said, I do recognize and acknowledge the superb audio visual experience from projecting Blu Ray through a decent PJ and Home Cinema Amp etc, but just can't get too excited from the collection of discs I own. Great to watch but quite throwaway as a medium I find.
Somehow none of them feel special to me in the way a cherished mint print does with great sound and picture quality.
There are also films I have watched dozens of times that I couldn't generate any interest to watch in any other way than on film.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 21, 2015, 02:44 PM:
well andrew the thing i found that finding really good prints in mint condition on 8 or 16 was a bit of a nightmare.and when you did the cost was and still is most of the time madness. i am just not prepared to pay silly money for a film any more.been let down too many times. my projectors and blu ray give me just what i seek when watching a film. i used to love 8 and 16mm, especially 16mm. but then im a lot older now. past experiences have taught me many lessons especially finance wise re buying film. sad but true. i have to admit i now get great pleasure buying and watching blu ray and at great prices.i buy from all over the world. and i dont have my heart in my mouth like i did when buying used 8 and 16mm. in fact i could not be happier.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 21, 2015, 03:20 PM:
You're right Paul and I have thought exactly the same way on many occasions in many different era's.
Today is a return to it all for me. A day not so long ago I would have said "no chance". But I guess this film malarkey just gets in your veins once you sample it at an impressionable age and for me, I guess it never left me and now doubt it ever will.
I understand exactly what you mean though Paul regarding the disappointment felt when receiving a print in less than expected condition and then all the hassle that ensues from the follow up.
That is my biggest motivation for always recommending only the kindest of film handling machines. Without finding them over the years, I couldn't have stomached ruining print after print at the price we all have to pay for them.
It feels like vandalism to me when one gets marked after years and years of preservation by a previous sensible owner.
I distinctly remember Barry Littlechild forming the very same opinion as you have now Paul and using the exact same argument once he sampled a Panasonic PTAE 900.
A devout film collector that featured regularly in FFTC before suddenly one day announcing he won't be posting in a film mag anymore as he was completely converted by the New found quality of the latest digital images.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on July 21, 2015, 03:43 PM:
Its alwasy amazed me buying films from someoe who bought it new and the marks on it are crazy. They have sat there watching them build up on every viewing, sad I supose.
But its the selling on of crap and stone cold fibbing etc spoils the hobby. Plus the irony of the angry and unpleasant crap seller as well should you dare to politely mention it .
With steelbooks I find I get the same nice little buzz I used to with nicely boxed package film movies.
I think steelbooks life expectancy is about 10/20 years which is not so bad.
I`ve found myself some of the qaulity of streamed stuff like Netflix and even the TV I players can be amazing through even a modest LCD projector.
I can`t wait to watch the restored DR Who films on BR soon as I can bring myself to unwrap them !!!!
Opening up the steelbook and taking the disc out of it seems , well to me at least, to elevate the experiance a fair bit above the norm.
Best Mark.
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on July 22, 2015, 03:56 AM:
Good post Mark
I totally agree in every way with Paul Barker - most will know of my time with 16mm...I had some fantastic titles from Kodachrome "White Christmas" to all the "Back to the Futures".."Close Encounter"..Raiders".."Godfathers" most of the original "Twilight Zones" and "Lucy shows" - nearly every film at one time you could imagine...you name it..it became an obsession for me and I nearly lost everything financially through it.
But I got SO...stung with a lot of features vinegar...lined..especially the rare stuff. Paul Foster and Derann were the best for me.
I keep my hand in as I also AGREE with Andrew...it is an ERA thing...and I have a little bit of 8mm..just to pick up thread, feel and touch..I cannot describe it any other way. Same as reading the old film catalogues...takes me right back to being 12 years old...But I have to say I keep my big screen shows now to digital p/j.
Best
Mark
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on July 22, 2015, 08:03 AM:
You won't be disappointed with the Dr. Who movies on Blu-ray Mark as the quality is arguably the best they've ever looked; like an original print but with less grain.
I still have my old 4 x 400ft Walton of "Dr. Who and the Daleks", and bought the DVD Gold edition back in the day as I too was a sucker for a nice box (you could also send off for two full size replica theatrical posters for each movie as part of the price). I shudder to think now that this may have cost around £50.00 at the time!
Happy days, but only one way to really see these classics now I'm afraid.
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on July 22, 2015, 08:37 AM:
While to each his/her own, I choose to not live my life in a constant state of nostalgia. Life is too short for that. I will always keep my films, but time (and technology) marches on. Today's technology finally affords me the print and sound quality that I sought in my 40-plus years of film collecting.
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 22, 2015, 08:50 AM:
I am in agreement with Andrew; I have some films I could watch over and over again, that I wouldn't buy or watch repeatedly on DVD. I have hundreds of DVDs, but running a film, even with splices and the odd scratch, is still a magical experience. I would prefer to spend £100 on a film than pay £10 for the same film on DVD. Each to his own. I shall remain faithful to celluloid.
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 22, 2015, 12:10 PM:
It only seems like last year when several members stated that the odd imperfection added rather than took anything away from their viewing enjoyment, they preferred that to the clinically clean DVD. It seems that Digital will gradually take over in the forum, with members of 40 years experience in cine, now extolling the virtues of Blu-Ray.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 22, 2015, 12:29 PM:
Robert, I received this morning super 8 and 9.5 films. I'm not ready to give up. I had a call yesterday from a member of the French 9,5 club about the next season of the monthly projections. There is no question of digital at all.
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 22, 2015, 01:41 PM:
I don't think there is anyone who doesn't own a DVD , and we are well aware of the differences. We collect by choice. Some people will prefer to collect an original antique to a replica, or an oil painting to a print.As one of the faithful you might be interested in this:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/123457744477972/
Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on July 22, 2015, 02:37 PM:
Forgetting all the film vs Blu Ray arguments - I think that Steelbooks will scratch as easily as film. I mean the book not the contents as unlike other DVDs & Nlu Rays they are not plastic covered. I hear on some other forums that people are buying to collect pristine and do not remove the plastic film they are shipped in to preserve them, so never see the movie.
So for the distributor another sale to the one for viewing!!!!
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 22, 2015, 02:59 PM:
I always find this thing with film or digital images a bit like the modern day woman vs the more traditional "Girl next door".
One is practically perfect with absolutely no visible imperfections, flawless complexion, plenty of false plastic stuff etc, almost like a mannequin and dull as dishwater and shallow as paddling pool to boot...
while the other is full of minor imperfections, radiance and natural beauty while exuding a charm, magnetism, real depth and individualism all of her own!
It's all just a question of taste as to which you prefer to spend your time with.. Jordan or Julie!
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 22, 2015, 03:14 PM:
my god. some strange and weird comments
here. only started off with a chap likeing steelbook blu ray. its a hobby and an interest isnt it. not an obsession.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 22, 2015, 03:21 PM:
Just a humorous analogy Paul based on taste,that's all ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
As in natural conversation, the topic expanded somewhat.
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on July 22, 2015, 04:28 PM:
Spot-on, Paul! Everyone needs to keep repeating to themselves, "It's only a hobby, it's only a hobby. . ." 😀
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 22, 2015, 04:42 PM:
It is as you say John, only a hobby however you choose to view a movie, but switching on a Blu Ray player and throwing a disc into it prior to pressing a couple of buttons on a remote in no way represents the time and effort needed in screening film.
It does need a great deal of time and effort and TLC to keep it all in great shape and as a result, it does become a very time consuming "hands on" hobby that does in fact become a way of life in the manner any interest does if you put a lot of effort into it.
Not for everyone by any means but a labour of love to those that do it.
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 22, 2015, 05:28 PM:
What annoys me is that in some forums there have been the Digital fans who recommends that we throw out our films and get into the 21st century. To expand on what I posted before, we collect film by choice, not because of ignorance of alternatives. It's a bit like those people who put posters in their windows at election time telling you who you should vote for. If you want to ditch film and show digital only, fine, but don't try to force your opinions on others.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 22, 2015, 05:53 PM:
As said on many many occasions, I enjoy projecting both just in the same way I know people like Paul Adsett do.
I will never deny that the images or sound gained from a digital presentation are anything other than sensational nowadays.
However, Robert's point is a valid one in that although this is a forum for film users, we now appear to becoming a forum for ex film users boasting the benefits of projecting digitally with none of the hassles, heartaches and endeavours associated with the art of screening real film at times and appear almost cold and lacking any sort of compassion or understanding of the pleasures gained from all of the effort put into screening and trying to perfect real film by the people on here that still actually do it.
It is in the general yak section so of course all topics are valid and interesting, but surely we all on here at some point loved the merits of screening film just as in the same way we all loved listening to records once..and for some, still do?
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 22, 2015, 06:00 PM:
Maybe Mark could explain us why he opened this topic and what his goal was ?
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 22, 2015, 06:04 PM:
We Digress Dominique and to that end I have no complaints about any post regarding the collections of digital media.
I just hope for the future this isn't going to be a forum full of past appreciators of Cine film and its associated equipment.
There is much still to collect and much still to enjoy.
In 7 years time, hopefully Mark will be back collecting again with the rest of us!
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 22, 2015, 06:12 PM:
We all want Mark staying with us, putting his blu rays in a cupboard and setting his film projector again to get what digital cannot provide : pleasure of manipulating something real.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 22, 2015, 06:14 PM:
Would that be Julie or Jordan though Dominique? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 22, 2015, 06:30 PM:
That question must be unanswered for one of Barry's quizz
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 22, 2015, 08:54 PM:
It is always a hot debate when we are talking digital vs film.
Cmon guys some people are still proudly driving an old VW although faster cars are available cheap.
Yes..it is a hobby...
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 22, 2015, 11:10 PM:
It is always a hot debate when we are talking digital vs film.
Cmon guys some people are still proudly driving an old VW although faster cars are available cheap.
Yes..it is a hobby...
Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on July 22, 2015, 11:26 PM:
We all enjoy watching movies and I think it just falls into 2 catagories....
There are some who just enjoy movies and do so on the best available format...whatever that is....at one time it was film....now it is something else.
And then there are some who enjoy the format just as much as the movies....namely film and everything that comes with it....
Any time digital formats are spoken in a positive way it always turns into a debate....it's kind of funny.
Bill
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on July 23, 2015, 12:20 AM:
Poor Mark was only asking what we thought about nice boxes and now look what has happened! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Ah well, since we seem to be into this again, from my own point of view I love film and can't see myself giving it up. My Beaulieu has cost me dear in time and money this year alone but I have enjoyed keeping it going and running "real" film.
Although when I referred to the Dr. Who movies, I was expressing my opinion that if you want to see them properly, Blu-ray is currently the way to go, as the quality is stunning.
I agree with Bill's comments, but I think a lot of us fall into both categories.
I think most of us love real film or else we wouldn't be here, but I wish we could talk digital in general yak without it becoming accusational.
Anyway, those steel boxes are lovely.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 23, 2015, 02:09 AM:
it appears to me that to many on here their hobby has in fact turned into an obsession.and im not talking about really enjoying your hobby. i mean OBSESSION. i have said before you use what suits. but why oh why do film users feel so threatened whenever someone gives their opinions re digital.i for one am not trying to convert anyone.and i dont think other digital users are. i am just like others saying what they prefer and enjoy.it really is just a hobby and interest.i also thought everyone on this sites main interst was their love of the movies. if you go beyond that. well you yourselves know what it does to you. have fun and enjoy film/digital etc. but let it become an obsession and well, we all really know where that can lead.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 23, 2015, 02:50 AM:
Between "just an hobby" and "obsession", there is also "passion"...
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 23, 2015, 02:54 AM:
as a alcoholic would say. im not an alcoholic.i just like a drink.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 23, 2015, 02:56 AM:
Does that mean that all those who appreciate a good wine vs a cheap one are alcoolic ? I don't think so.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 23, 2015, 03:30 AM:
not getting the point. passion to me can be just like obsession. ive seen many many collectors where their film collecting has taken over their lives. and to many has caused financial stress. i have seen it many times at film fairs open days etc. i remember one instance at blackpool . at the end of the day a collector had spent £600 on two features from Derann. he freely admited it was on his credit card which he could really not afford but he could not help himself. addicted you might say. i see many on here like that. their hobby has taken over their lives. addiction.obsession.passion. call it what you like. but its there.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 23, 2015, 03:41 AM:
What you are describing can also occur with digital. I went to a shop with a friend who spent over 200 € for blu rays (several in 3d). And he is not collecting them. he's interested in music, not in films. So I can imagine someone who's in movies spending a lot of money in dvd and blu rays and in projectors (new models come all the time on the market). So, digital doesn't prevent you from foolish behaviour. Only a doctor can.
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 23, 2015, 05:09 AM:
It's a hobby that's under threat; first we had VHS, that almost destroyed the hobby, now we have digital projectors, so you are not confined to watching films on the TV. Some who stayed with the hobby have now abandoned it in favour of digital projection. Gradually as we get older, the number of collectors gets less; there are few people able to service the machines; though fortunately they were well built. The number of available machines will gradually get less as people like to post how they binned 3 Eikis' and an Elmo. Why not offer free for spares or repair?; then we have the dreaded VS, the artist who destroys film in the name of art, or cuts the film up to sell as cels; others who bin films to use the reel as a wall decoration, or turn a good projector into a table lamp.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 23, 2015, 05:34 AM:
I personally am at a very different stage in my life this time around in the hobby.
In the 90's living with ex wife, I had an enormous mortgage and a young daughter etc etc. I was left with no other option really than to pull away from the hobby and enjoy all things projected digitally, just a point Derann were peaking in their desirable releases as far as I was concerned.
Now, some 24years later, I have a small mortgage a brilliant second wife who doesn't shoot for the stars, while still being lucky enough to be in the same job I was in all those years ago ( at least for the time being ).
This time around, I have been lucky enough to purchase some of my most desired films and equipment that back then or even earlier, I could have only ever dreamed of.
If I were a millionaire, this hobby probably would become an obsession for someone like me. I am of course not.
As such, I buy what I can when I can and my feet stay very firmly on the ground.
I have used credit cards to buy films but only as everyone uses them who is sensible in that it enables me to buy a film at a time when perhaps I have already spent my film budget that month.
With film and equipment, you have to buy when these things surface in many cases and to that end, I will purchase by any means if the timing isn't great for me.
Will this one day see me bankrupt in the way Mark Silvester almost did by his own admission?
No...I am never compelled to buy everything I see, I am a patient person, after all whatever it is, I've already waited this long.
I am passionate about the gauge and the hobby but I am I possessed or obsessed?
I don't think so somehow , nor do I think I am in denial or foolish enough to lose the real things in life that are important all because of some whirring cogs and printed plastic.lol.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 23, 2015, 05:45 AM:
to true Dominique. im not saying just on film. it can happen in any hobby. but i have seen so much of it in this in this forum. its an underlying obsession. so much so that sometimes the person cannot see it themselves.but its there. beleive me its there.
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on July 23, 2015, 05:45 AM:
A nice little post from Mark Todd - and unfortunately, a "knee jerk reaction"...
I agree with your comments Paul Barker - you and others bring a little bit of sanity me thinks.
I noticed no previous mention within this post of people being encouraged to give up their cine collection for digital all can and does exist - with me it is entertainment on the "big" screen. I dabble a bit in 8mm but primarily in v/projection...where one or two who have posted saying this forum and others are turning "digital" is ludicrous and does reflect a "blind" obsessive compulsion - I should know as I treat people for such in my day job with the NHS!
Relax...life is short enough. Some people ought to not get SO defensive! Lol
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 23, 2015, 05:51 AM:
well said Mark. you know exactly what i am saying. as you if anyone knows. and you have been open enough to admit. some courage there i think.
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 23, 2015, 06:02 AM:
Mark, you would have seen these comments in the Small Format Film Forum, also another one called The Jubilee Regal, which is almost entirely devoted to digital projection. The forum is run by an ex-projectionist.
The one good thing to come out of the decline of film use, is the availability of 16mm projectors at affordable prices, plus being able to purchase feature films that were never available on Super 8.
[ July 23, 2015, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: Robert Crewdson ]
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on July 23, 2015, 08:22 AM:
Well said, Paul and Mark!
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on July 23, 2015, 09:19 AM:
Hi I started the thread not as a digital V,s film thing more from a point that for myself coming from filmie doings I find the steelbooks add a great little bit of tangiable filminess and buzz similar to how nice film boxes used to make me feel.
Check out these two Dr Who Steelbooks
http://www.zavvi.com/blu-ray/dr-who-and-the-daleks-zavvi-exclusive-limited-edition-steelbook/11149767.html
http://www.zavvi.com/blu-ray/daleks-invasion-earth-2150-a.d.-zavvi-exclusive-limited-edition-steelbook-2000-only/11050308.html
2150 is Sold out but still pops up on ebay etc and they do sometimes come back in on zavvi.
I find if you are steady with them they don`t damage too eaily, but I just love the feel of them.
Pleased to hear the qaulity of the Blu Rays is so good thanks, can`t wait.
I have the 2150AD sealed and ready to open when my 2 eldest lads pop round and the new one out on the 3rd of august on order.
You can pick up steelbooks from around a fiver up new.
I`m still in to films, mainly trailers and shorts and love running them, but for me features wise this is a really nice little avenue.
I just ordered The adjustement Bureau for £5 new sealed delivered steelbook.
Ordinary blu rays coming in the post are OKish though not really exciting at all, but I find a steelbook on the way in the post and opening it up, for me is the best thing next to a real film so just thought I`d mention it as might be real fun for other chaps too on here.
Best Mark.
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on July 23, 2015, 09:59 AM:
Pity we can't have a discussion without the verbal abuse coming in . Not surprised a number have left.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 23, 2015, 09:35 PM:
At least I had been honest to my self since 2006:
I love the format more than the contain
Guys please be honest...you love the format than what is inside the format....
I wouldn't buy Tom & Jerry collection in DVD although it is only $5 for 6 episodes...but rather buying a scratchy TJ episode for $10 ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on July 24, 2015, 04:22 AM:
The problem is that no new 16mm features are available to buy and what small amount of film stuff is still being produced is limited in choice and somewhat expensive and will become more so as film availability and usage declines and collectors age etc. . So digital projection is a means of achieving the big screen experience that modern day viewers happily accept. That leaves us 16mm collectors having to fall back on available prints that are suffering the effects of age, and we all know what those are. So, we end up fishing in a smaller pool. But we don't stop fishing!!! This is a film forum and long may it remain so. I wouldn't want anyone to feel they can't post (that's what general Yak takes in) but I really don't want to find loads of digital expression diluting it. Many of us appreciate blu-ray but my emphasis and interest is 16mm with all it's faults and problems. We've got the best of both worlds. Long may it remain so.
Posted by Jonathan Trevithick (Member # 3066) on July 24, 2015, 06:30 AM:
On the subject of steelbooks, I do have some in my collection of about 300 blu rays. Personally, I am more interested in the picture and audio quality than the packaging.
It's interesting to read on blu ray forums how some people actually hold off buying the standard blu ray editions if a steelbook version is coming out later (even though content wise, they are usually the same).
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on July 24, 2015, 09:43 AM:
Hello Mark. Nothing for me will top the excitement of powering up my first decent Eumig which still gives off the same factory smell as it did back the 70's, that for me will never be replaced even by the forthcoming 'Ultra Blu-Ray'.
That being said I have been enjoying very much a few of the 3D Blu-Rays using the Benq eco machine and similar economy priced active glasses. With used Blu-rays now selling around here at £1.79 they have fairly swiftly become another throw away item which did surprise me somewhat.
The steel box thing I have yet to understand but I do know the printing wraps the box if that is of importance, also with attached price hiking. For me I would be looking for better quality scanning of good film materials and extras rather than a box but hey ho to each his own. It's all fun of course and a new avenue of entertainment and collectability for many or else they would not produce the steel book versions.
Back to the Eumig ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on July 24, 2015, 09:59 AM:
Whether it's Blu-Ray or film, the content/quality of the movie/film will always supersede the box packaging as a priority for me. That being said, the packaging for the 1927 JAZZ SINGER DVD is outstanding, including multiple materials associated with the early Vitaphone sound shorts that are included as DVD extras. It's most valued in my home cinema, and I highly recommend it.
Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on July 24, 2015, 12:30 PM:
Well, personally I love everything to do with the film industry in general. It probably is an obsession and I don't mind admitting it. I have 16mm, Super 8 and Blu-Ray/DVD through a video projector and I have posters and press books and 8x10s and film programmes too. I like nice packaging and like good clean reels for my films, even trying to match studio reels to the film where possible. Film magazines, novelisations, ( who collects those!) oh, I also have a collection of LP soundtracks too. I still buy soundtracks even though I have the whole film. Because LP artwork is nice. I have a lot of books about film, from history type stuff to academic theory and everything else in-between.
The only format I have ever really 'given up' on is laserdisc, because many of my discs got the laser rot and different versions of the system: NTSC,PAL, analogue/digital sound, different size discs, made a player to do it all problematic and expensive.
My favourite format is 16mm. A good dense print gives you an authentic cinema experience with all the sounds and smells, all the beeps, pops and academy countdown you want. BUT, the new films aren't going to be there so you need a video projector and to go that way too.
I think it is a great time to be a film buff. The video projection technology is amazing and all the films and projectors you couldn't dream of owning when you were 17 are all on eBay at frankly quite affordable prices, for the most part. I say enjoy it all.
Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on July 24, 2015, 04:29 PM:
Lee, where on earth do you live. Blu-rays at £1.79!!! In Southend you're lucky to find a used one for a fiver. DVD's must be going for a song by the sound of it.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on July 24, 2015, 04:48 PM:
Wow Steve you really have got some serious stuff going on there.
I still do vinyl as well, and bought an amazing direct drive deck for £120 odd delivered last year and the qaulity is astonishing for the money, and the sound too.
Its got as pre-amp built in is brilliant. But I only now and again buy the odd new 180gram record if around £12 or so posted sealed etc.
The steelbooks give me a hell of a buzz and I see it as all filmie etc.
There are such interesting steelbooks around like the origional mad max films on blue ray in germany. A lovely 2001 just came out recently , some of these have real thought put in to them.
Its fantastic now.
I just ran a few 16mm trailers earlier tonight though and about to crank up the LCD projector for a Friday night at the movies session.
Maybe one of the 8 universal horrors set restored on Blu Ray for £15 delivered earlier this year. Wow !!!
If your a film junkie with any and all formats it is great now.
Best Mark.
PS I bet your house would be really good fun for a ferret around in Steve for all us like minded types on here.
Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on July 24, 2015, 05:24 PM:
Hope all is going well, Mark. Yes, it's an 'Aladdin's Cave' round here to be sure. But it is a lifetime's work. I inherited my Dad's film stuff too and he had a lot of posters and film programmes and original stills. He was a projectionist and at the time the publicity material was to be thrown away after the film's release so he brought home a lot of memorabilia. I still have comics from childhood too, I'm a collector and I know how easy it is to get carried away.
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on July 25, 2015, 01:43 AM:
Hi Dave yes I live on planet film
Used Blu-Rays are on sale in a local Cash Gen £1.79, I think dvd's were 79p sat next to them which rather bowled me over for a main high street store. I'll get the address of the Blackpool store who has a shop full of BR only price £2.50 and update here at some point.
Talking of projecting BR I have scanned some of my favourite rarer 16mm optical shorts to preserve and do include these via the old pen drives in programmes at times. They look fine but nothing really beats threading up a projector really for fun and entertainment.
Shame about the old Laser Disc and the effects of time, as we age we are all showing quite a bit of rot setting in. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Mark I daren't think how much I paid for my USA film print of Ghost of Frank back in the 80's let alone the shipping from the USA.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 25, 2015, 02:19 AM:
only ones i have ever seen in these shops are from £1.50.but these are always rubbish titles. decent titles always command a higher price. like most things.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on July 25, 2015, 05:50 AM:
Yes steve OK thanks apart slightly from the rushing past years. Hope you are too.
I was thinking about LCD projection now price wise Lee.
You can get an absoluitely superb projector from about £250 now and blu ray player thats tip top picture qaulity wise for £50.
So lets say £350 now and you are away at a very nice point and you can go on from there.
Lets transpose that back to 1979 and its about £70-80 then so lets say £100 in 1979 . Now if that could of got you a superb LCD projector, blu ray player and a few Blu Rays that would of been mind blowing then.
Also a steelbook even with a blu ray and dvd in for say £10 posted is about £2 posted in 1979. ordinary Blu Rays about a £1 posted back then if you will.
We never had it so good really.
I sometimes feel a bit stuck in the mindset of the past money wise. When you look at something thats say £8 and um and ah but compared to the cost of living its amazingly cheap.
I hope a few Hammers come out in steelbooks with the oldie artwork used. They are a bit much in the usual packaging ( ? ), but I would pay that for a steel for a hammer.
Best Mark.
A few nice ones coming out soon.
http://www.zavvi.com/blu-ray/dr-terror-s-house-of-horrors-limited-edition-steelbook-limited-to-4000-copies/11146761.html
http://www.zavvi.com/blu-ray/casino-royale-zavvi-exclusive-limited-edition-steelbook/11146681.html
http://www.zavvi.com/blu-ray/dracula-prince-of-darkness-zavvi-exclusive-limited-edition-steelbook-2000-only/11095319.html
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on July 25, 2015, 11:05 AM:
Agree Mark -- this really is the best time to be in the movie collecting/screening hobby!
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on July 25, 2015, 02:12 PM:
I too agree - with all the above "rational" posts...but B/ray for that price, Lee Mannering..good titles never seen em ...even wholesale!.for that price...lol. But I have to say, I had some great recollections of my time in 16mm/8mm..days gone by now.
I had a favourite time in 16mm...my print of "Night of the Hunter" was superb - original..(and sold to a VIP in this country).but nearly cost me my house alongside other prints, because at that time I pursued the best - ..the most exceptional print quality that could be found - that was "obsession" because that is where film leads you - the need to buy that print..and "keep" it.... Hmm.. nothing wrong with that as long as we understand and get the balance of the situation, but I love the big screen...8mm wise as I was a friend of Derek Simmonds (and still am of Adrian Simmonds son)... I swapped my 16mm LLP of Roger Moore "View to a Kill" personally with Derek not long before he died for his own copy, personal - first one run of the negative of "Shane" - amazing copy...I ultimately sold that to a guy in New York, I am sure. Loved the business..hey Doug do you still have the 8mm"Flash Gordon?"...so do I miss the 8mm/16mm...yes I do. I will always have a dip in and out. BUT - most of all I want a BIG SCREEN experience that can be enjoyed collectively...friends family, etc. Long live the movies!!
Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on July 25, 2015, 04:02 PM:
I watch both film and DVD but mainly watch shorts now due to time available with work etc. I love holding a super 8 copy of a film and watching the projector purr away but being honest I could enjoy it just as much on DVD and if its late at night don't have the hassle of rewinding it and putting away the projector.
I do remember a statement from Tony Churcher who raved about DVD projection. He said "It's what's on the screen what counts, not how it gets there "
Graham
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 25, 2015, 06:32 PM:
I am sorry Graham but that is where Tony Churcher and I would always have to disagree, just as I did over his design of a film reel!
Film is a practical work of art in my opinion. A showcase vintage product of a bygone era.
If you just want to WATCH something, then yeah go ahead screen a video on DVD or Blu Ray or easier still just switch on your telly!
But if you want to watch a work of art, as it was originally made... then screen a film.
It would appear to me lots of early collectors would never have even bothered with film if today's alternatives had sat alongside in the very same era.
Now, for me, when i watch a mint print from the very same era VHS was putting out less than 500 lines of resolution.... it makes me appreciate it all the more!
As a friend of mine once explained to a none collector who very kindly pointed out that he could get the very same title of a film he was buying for a few quid, he replied...
" I can print off a picture of the Mona Lisa for virtually nothing, but you ain't getting the original unless you're a multi millionaire!"
That is why we collectors watch our films dozens of times but watch our DVD's once or twice at the most.
There's no accounting for taste as they say!
The art form that was indeed FILM was perhaps wasted on these people.
Thank God there are those who look deeper than skin deep!
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on July 25, 2015, 07:49 PM:
Its a funny one as when you are watching Bugs life or Toy Story etc on super 8 you are actually watching digital ( put on to real film )
But when you watch say Zulu or Laurence of Arabia or say Ben Hur for instance on Blu Ray you are watching real film.
One thing is for sure you can now watch films affordably and beautifullly in the home far closer to the origional elements than you can on a real film print. But you are still essentially watching film up there.
I`ve just watched a film on Netflix on the VP 10 feet wide that looked very filmie and nice, and just looked it up and it was shot on digital.
When it comes down to it owning real film and collecting is as much about compulsion ( it is with me ), ownership, exclusivity or an idea that it is, obssession, and a step in to the hoarding arena. Also faffing on and the love of it all etc, but we are are all subject to what inside us drives us and about how it connects to us.
When you project the Laurel and Hardy Dvds on a VP they really do look so filmie, often more filmie than they do on real 8 or 16mm film.
When it comes down to it, its about what you enjoy and if discussing digital etc etc on here as well as our love of real film might just get a few more people here via searches etc that might not otherwise end up here and the odd few might, just might get interested.
What we should all try to do for the hobby is to pick up the odd nice Sankyo 501 for £15 or £20 and pop them in the loft etc and when a newbie turns up who is interested make sure one of us sends him one of those at cost and post, and a few of us send him ( or her be nice ) a few free films to get them going etc so they don`t have to suffer the vagaries of ebay and as more often than not end up being put right off.
If film does it for you, you can be secure in that and enjoy it, but I really think the wider we discuss the various ways to enjoy films now, the more opportunity there is for someone to stumble on to here and just maybe get a spark of interest and pick up the hobby.
Best Mark.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 25, 2015, 08:18 PM:
They only look film like Mark because they're taken from FILM.
As said, if I want to watch for instance one of my favourite films," American Beauty" for instance, then there is only one way to watch it given the era it was made.
But the very fact that Derann were still releasing film product well into the digital era such as bugs life & Toy Story surely only adds to the sheer collectability and uniqueness of these very late prints and the quality of these prints on eight is nothing short of exceptional!
Let's hope the film forum discusses film and its associated equipment for many years to come just yet.
The fact there is a cheap alternative just doesn't cut it for me as I'm making up for lost time with my Super 8mm journey.
I get it that for some it is a sensible compromise,but personally for me, when I had 1,2 & 3 Toy Story on Blu ray, it was always a compromise until I had a mint TS1 on film just like The Lion King also was.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 26, 2015, 01:50 AM:
WOW. what was that i said about addiction and obsession...
Posted by David Skillern (Member # 607) on July 26, 2015, 04:27 AM:
Hi all,
Isn't it amazing how the discussion of one topic can turn into something else of an entirely different beast. I was bitten by the super 8 beast in the late 1970's and can't get it out of my system . My two lounges both have slightly different size screens in them and both are equipped with lcd projectors supplied by a certain Mr Todd who started the whole topic off. However my smaller screen the 7ft one in screen 1 - is where I keep all my 8mm projectors (last count 7 - ranging from an eumig 824, several elmo's 180, 1200D and 1200HD and a Fumeo 9119) and my 8mm collection - that I am still adding to - as my taste in films is quite eclectic my collection ranges from the carry ons , musicals, classic hammer and more recent horror films, action pics - I have the 3 die hard features and some great scfi like predator, Alien,Aliens, Robocop and Star Trek Generations. My wife is reasonably sympathetic - however she constantly reminds me to catalogue all of them with a price as if anything happened to me - several nice holidays would be on the cards !!!!
David
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on July 26, 2015, 04:43 AM:
Quote;
"Isn't it amazing how the discussion of one topic can turn into something else of an entirely different beast."
Indeed, David, which is one of the reasons that I come to this forum less and less.
Some people seem to have there own agenda, which I neither understand nor want to.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 26, 2015, 04:49 AM:
i wonder how many actually tell their wife/partner the true cost of the films they have bought over the years. there are several i know who have usually told a few porkies re what they actually paid. as collectors have passed on their other half hasnt got a clue. so when they sell them on, usually to some dealer who is there like a vulture, they get what they think is a fair price. so so sad really.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 26, 2015, 04:52 AM:
You have some superb titles and equipment there David!
Very nice indeed!
Mine will all be going in the bin sadly when I'm gone according to my better half
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on July 26, 2015, 04:56 AM:
Er...my copy of "The Lion King" was actually bought by my partner new from Derann at Blackpool, 1996.
I can actually quote her as saying, "why don't more people know about this stuff??"
Of course, now she prefers digital!
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 26, 2015, 04:58 AM:
Years ago somebody here wrote that their rule of thumb with film purchases and telling wives was to move the decimal point one place to the left!
We have an understanding in this household: each of us has our stuff that we enjoy, and as long as the dollar amounts are reasonable, comparable, the clutter is kept in control and the credit cards get paid off every month then we are both OK with it.
Besides, life being what it is, the film budget is a pretty minor expense. If it brings a little joy it's probably a bargain!
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 26, 2015, 05:01 AM:
My missus has never seen a single projected image in our house besides that from the digital projectors I've had over the years.
She would never ever watch a cine film and thinks anyone that still does in 21st century is absolutely bonkers!
The only reason I can justify to her what I spend on film is because unlike her, I managed to give up smoking a while back.
If anyone thinks films are a waste of money,try spending £9 a day on B&H's!!
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 26, 2015, 05:10 AM:
i totally agree there Andrew.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on July 26, 2015, 05:48 AM:
I don`t suppose anyone who doesn`t have it isn`t going to understand that thing or buzz you get putting the film ptojector on, the threading up and that first blast and focus on to the screen.
I might have mentioned it here before but I had contact with a chap who did all of his super 8 dealings from a nearby public phone box and you had to send the films to his nephew or cousins house, the wife never knew the costs etc.
He bought loads of Derann features new, about £350 at the time.
But then he bought T2 and another sci fi one and they just didn`t do it for him and he asked derann to take them back against another new older one he fancied, they were over £700 the 2 and a week old Derann only offered him £90 each credit each agsainst another new one, so he so he wasn`t sure he was going to buy any more.
Most wives probably assume the cost is nearer a dvd. My now Ex other half hated cine, but part of that was me mentioning films that came that were red, vinegar, scratched to bits, missing sound, even a bell and howell TQ1 from an actual engineer who had fitted a new worm gear !!!, but it had an old cracked white one still in etc etc etc she thought I was a right mug keeping putting myself in that possition.I did go through a particularly bad couple of years at that point being lied to and ripped off left right and centre then. Funnily enough ebay made that a bit better.
Best Mark.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 26, 2015, 06:06 AM:
the story of the chap getting little back in p/x is a very common thing. i think it is always best to sell on privately. but yes i saw it happen quiet a lot. much to the dismay of the collector. i think to some though paying a high price for a film gives it more of an importence to them. dont know why. but it does.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 26, 2015, 06:13 AM:
This is why I cannot stress enough the importance of a full description of which you have asked ALL of the questions, what stripe,emulsion scratches, colour??? Etc etc.... and insist on screenshots especially with people who you have never dealt with before.
You will still get the odd line surfacing here and there or the odd reel where the sound is terrible as the sellers have conveniently overlooked that section of the film when checking it, but overall your disappointments should be drastically reduced doing all of the above.
When I've been ripped. I make sure I never deal with that person again so they'll only have me over once!
Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on July 26, 2015, 10:01 AM:
When I tell my wife what I'm going to buy and remind her it's a one off she just laughs and says 'you can always justify the cost'. She's slept through every great classic you can mention so film doesn't mean a thing to her. I've had a t.v. put into our front room so she can happily watch Jeremy Kyle while I wallow in nostalgia and sentiments of another age. And yes, we're very happily married. Now I'm just waiting for my trailers to come and it'll be another evening in the front for her!!!
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 26, 2015, 10:06 AM:
Ha ha ha. Sounds exactly like our house Dave!
Very much a man after my own heart
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on July 27, 2015, 03:13 AM:
Out of interest I completed a scan of our town and found Blu-Rays on the used shelf from £1 upwards, most being around £1.99.
I'm guessing competing shops have done the rounds and set similar prices.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on July 27, 2015, 04:56 AM:
Are those 2nd hand Lee, they look it.
I don`t find the Blu Ray packaging very inspiring and prefer a DVD case without the blu band.
Many steelbooks have a nice picture etc from the film inside which is very nice. I noticed my dvd copy of kes has and I wish they had done that more with DVD,s.
I might repack some of my blu Rays in to DVD cases and use the steelbook artwork to fluff them up a bit.
I,ve been printing a few pics offline for my trailer reels on glossy phto printing paper and they look very nice.
Hope we get a few more really classic films out in steelbooks at a fair price.
I bought the Grinch Blu Ray last week steelbook new for £6.50 posted and its really nice.
I see the 4K machines come out September-ish, though I`m not sure why they are bothering really, be better to push Blu Ray which is more than good anyway. Better transfers on to Blu Rya would make more sense.
Best Mark.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 27, 2015, 05:37 AM:
4k will be perfect for projectors Mark, for those who have the money to purchase the high end video projectors.
I think then, the images will surpass even what you see at your local Imax given the size of home cinema screens.
Certainly should beat the images from a 35mm projector hands down I would have thought, even if arguably they don't already!
You can never have too much clarity in an image and I think the quality of the lenses fitted to video projectors of the 4k type will perhaps be the weakest link in terms of the sheer clarity and brilliance of the image that hits the screen.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on July 27, 2015, 06:01 AM:
as i thought Lee. titles no one really wants. certainly not me anyway. hence low prices.
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on July 27, 2015, 06:24 AM:
I guess you could say that about anything Paul, cars, 16mm but rather depends on what titles you are looking for. Picked myself a backup BR disc of 'Super 8' £1.50 just in case the case fades.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on July 28, 2015, 02:59 PM:
Hi just one of my steelbooks for filmie interest. An offline pic until I borrow a camera.
Best Mark.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 30, 2015, 08:44 PM:
I am not going to debate between (the quality of) digital vs film but it is already proven, we collected VHS/Betamax, then LD, later DVD and now BluRay...they are going to rubbish bin eventually when the new format arrive.
DVDs (120 minutes F/L, color full, stereo, scratch free) are now sold from 50 cents to a dollar at thrift stores.
What do you price for your 200' (6 minute, color fade, mono sound, scratchy) of Tom & Jerry? At least $10.
I am using these digital formats at home for my daily entertainment but collecting super 8mm film for me is more precious since they have a long shelf live.
With all due respects, my VHS/Betamax have gone somewhere as well as my DVDs. My LDs are still here with me due to the size eqv. with LPs (my other collection), it looks nice to see them sit side by side. But I am not going to collect BluRay (read: collecting not watching), just rent or buy second hand for one time used as disposable item.
cheers,
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on August 24, 2015, 03:52 AM:
I mentioned the stacked Blu-Ray shop in Blackpool selling very low cost movies. Popped over to take a snap just in case anyone wants to visit in November. The guy who owns the shop is really welcoming and great to talk to about movies.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 24, 2015, 03:56 AM:
Wouldn't it be lovely if the film conventions sold only films and left the DVD and Blu Ray sales to HMV or Amazon?
Blackpool is a long trip for many for something you can receive free in the post ...so long as you spend more than a tenner!
[ August 24, 2015, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on August 24, 2015, 02:04 PM:
The sad thing is Andrew, without the dvd's, blu-rays and books etc.there wouldn't be enough tables to make a visit worthwhile or to pay the cost of hiring the venue. When I first went to the BFCC it was almost totally film which, with the disappearance of folk like Derann and LGP etc. has speeded up the decline of film availability and increased the visibility of digital software along with books and film memorabilia. The shows all day and the possible bargain still make it a great day out and we shifted a lot of film titles at the last one and will probably do the same at the next.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 24, 2015, 04:49 PM:
Well that is sad news indeed David! No wonder I don't kick myself these days for missing these events.
I must admit, I'm really only interested in visiting a film convention if there are displays full of the very best equipment and films ever released on super 8mm.
I really wouldn't bother going if I thought the vast majority of produce up for grabs was 16mm or worse still Blu ray / dvd / film paraphernalia
Maybe the best days for these conventions are well and truly behind us now for collectors like me, I say that with a very heavy heart. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
What a sad sorrowful state of affairs.
[ August 24, 2015, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on August 24, 2015, 09:00 PM:
Yes, but wasn't even Derann's film operations "subsidized" by their video/electronics sales? That is, with film sales declining, didn't Derann's video/electronics business enable them to stay in the film business much longer than otherwise?
Think of it -- if it weren't for their video business, we might not have had Derann in the film business for as long as they were, particularly toward the last 15 years or so of their run.
Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on August 25, 2015, 03:45 AM:
Actually, the opposite is true. According to one of Deranns employees the film side was still making money right up to the end but Adrian had had enough and got out. My guess is the electrical side was struggling to compete with online sales. Perhaps too they could see the impact digital was going to have on film and felt it was time to get out.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 25, 2015, 04:23 AM:
At the time Derann said it was the cost of running a local brick and mortar store (utilities, insurance, etc.) that pushed them into the red.
If you think about it, that kind of a business (independent main street retailer) is an endangered species these days. People will drive right past and go to a big box retailer if they want to see the merchandise or just order it over the 'net if they don't.
Film or not, in the end Derann was just another one of these.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 25, 2015, 04:30 AM:
Dave's statement is bang on. If it hadn't been for new and used sales of film, from what I understand from what I have read, the shop would have more than likely had to close sooner than it did.
Consumer electronics is a very cut throat business and trying to compete with the big boys or even Richer Sounds etc with the likes of this equipment would have been virtually impossible.
One of the few benefits Derann offered over anyone else (as it certainly wasn't price) was the fact that they would part exchange your old films for new AV equipment including the latest home cinema LCD projectors back then.
Obviously this was a service that was unique to them so even if the price of the digital projector was higher than elsewhere, people were drawn to trade there so they could get the latest equipment without having to part with huge sums of money for the goods.
This, in turn, gave them the edge in having the best second hand film list of anyone back then therefore benefiting even further the film sales dept.
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on August 25, 2015, 07:52 AM:
Interesting -- thanks. From what I've read in other sources, Derann ventured into home electronics in the late 1980s "to increase their financial strength" and that "home electronics soon became their main business" in the 1990s.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 25, 2015, 11:22 AM:
It took up a large section at the front of the store John. Bigger than the 8mm Dept from what you could see as a punter. They were attempting to move with the times and I think from what I read that initially things were good for the department.
There wasn't much austerity around in the early 90's and people wanted the latest pixel plus flat screen tv's and laser discs were popular. After around 2004 in the UK, the complexion changed somewhat.
LCD projectors had been around for some six years as had DVDs or thereabouts. People tended to shop for consumer electronics by first either looking online or buying home cinema choice etc to find the best UK prices.
This all brought about a demise of the electrical dept from what I gather and I have read that by the late 00's I think the film department was doing the best and was certainly making money still for the business.
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on August 25, 2015, 11:44 AM:
Thanks Andrew -- good to hear that the film business was making money for Derann into the late 2000s.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 25, 2015, 01:33 PM:
I think Derann were still making money out of Super 8. In their last years they were running their stock down and were not producing any new prints. The problem was their striping facilities had ceased to function and they had no expertise to repair them. I think Derek was the main expert and technician in that area. The fact that Classic still release prints printed and striped in Germany shows there is a market for the product although on a smaller scale.
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 25, 2015, 01:42 PM:
Hi all
think you are right Mike..certainly reflects what Derek discussed with me not long before he passed.
I had a nice chat with Phil today from Classic. I have known Phil for a number of years but not caught up in a long while. So, as his shop is only about half mile from my work premises I will be popping in to have a chat..his shop is very impressive with lot's of floor space.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 25, 2015, 04:04 PM:
Yes his new shop does look much better and larger from all accounts.
Why not take a few photos for us all when you visit perhaps Mark?
I am certain I am not the only one here who would be interested in seeing his new layout.
I visited his old shop,but so far haven't seen much of the inside of his new one as I haven't had chance to visit it yet.
I think Phil is crying out for some new stock especially Super 8mm quality used films as he is advertising hard these days for people to let him quote on their collections if they are moving away from the hobby.
I received a posted leaflet stating as such from him only a few months ago.
Used quality films do seem to be drying up somewhat for the time being from all of the dealers I've noticed recently and turnaround of stock does seem to be generally slow at the moment.
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 25, 2015, 04:12 PM:
I've known Phil since he first became a super 8 trader.
Good bloke.
Posted by Jonathan Trevithick (Member # 3066) on August 25, 2015, 04:24 PM:
I visited Phil in his new shop when I was back in July. I spent a few hours there and also had a good chat with Phil who is a very decent guy. I just took these 2 photos.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 25, 2015, 04:37 PM:
Thanks for that Jonathon, looking good and a lot better organised than Phil's previous back room arrangement in his previous store! Lol.
Where does he keep his loco stuff nowadays Jonathan?
Before, it took precedence over the films right in the front of his old shop.
Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on August 25, 2015, 04:46 PM:
From the posts here it looks like people with decent prints are trying for mega money on ebay and missing out dealers now.
Posted by Jonathan Trevithick (Member # 3066) on August 25, 2015, 04:53 PM:
Hi Andrew. His trains are in the front of the shop (with his phone sitting on my ancestor's steam locomotive!). Films are behind the counter, down a corridor to the left. There is a big rack to the right of that photo, filled both sides with 16mm. Super 8 continues to the left of the photo.
There is another room at the back with projectors. It also contained a 35mm viewer on which was his Back To The Future promo. He wasn't sure when that would be released, if at all.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 25, 2015, 04:53 PM:
I am certain you are correct Brian. It is easier now than its ever been to sell your films privately without involving a dealer, if you have a quality desirable collection.
I do have sympathy and complete admiration in many ways for any of the remaining dealers.
Phil sold his last collection of Disney Derann features for £200 each irrespective of the title.
Many sell for much much higher on e bay now by private collectors and people who have sadly been left a collection by a bereaved family member.
What chance does a dealer then have of making any profit at all?
Not easy nowadays I would have thought.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 25, 2015, 04:55 PM:
Posted twice for some reason?? So deleted the first.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 25, 2015, 05:09 PM:
I am certain you are correct Brian. It is easier now than its ever been to sell your films privately without involving a dealer, if you have a quality desirable collection.
I do have sympathy and complete admiration in many ways for any of the remaining dealers.
Phil sold his last collection of Disney Derann features for £200 each irrespective of the title.
Many sell for much much higher on e bay now by private collectors and people who have sadly been left a collection by a bereaved family member.
What chance does a dealer then have of making any profit at all?
Not easy nowadays I would have thought.
.....................................................
Jonathan, that sounds better than his previous arrangement then in that at least the films get to sit alongside the steam trains in the front of house so to speak.
When I was in his other shop once, there was an elderly chap who Phil was clearly a pal of who just had to give me the full details of a railway loco named the same as my surname as I was filling in the forms for Phil's mailing list!
This guy could tell you any journey that any train had ever made here in old Blighty! Ha ha ha.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 25, 2015, 05:16 PM:
Thank you, Jonathan. I was wondering about the Back To The Future promo reel. It is not easy to have informations about any new releases or projects of new super 8 films.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 25, 2015, 05:20 PM:
I do hope that one comes off. I would love to have anything "Back to The Future" on film!
Posted by Jonathan Trevithick (Member # 3066) on August 25, 2015, 07:46 PM:
You would have to ask Phil but I didn't get the impression that he would be releasing BTTF promo in the near future.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 26, 2015, 12:51 AM:
Phils is waiting for people showing their interest before releasing a film and people like me are waiting for informations it is released before buying :-) There is sadly a lack of informations about the new releases on Phil's website, I I may say that, such as a describtion of the content and the prices. That probably doesn't help the sales.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 26, 2015, 03:29 AM:
Maybe by the time we get it, the film will simply be called "The Future"
Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on August 26, 2015, 11:04 AM:
Phil is constantly asking what collectors want but it seems to me that the small number prepared to pay the cost of new prints all want something different. Paul Foster told me that getting hold of films was getting more difficult and I noticed that there's been nothing under the A section for some time. Must be increasingly difficult for dealers to compete with online sales especially when titles particularly sought after go for prices far beyond what they normally sell at.
Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on August 26, 2015, 11:31 AM:
Hello Dave
Regarding your comment that nothing has been listed under the A section on Paul Foster's website, if you are referring to the 16mm features section you will find it is a blip in the page's HTML code - simply scroll down and you will find the A to C listings.
Kevin
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 26, 2015, 12:03 PM:
As far as Super 8mm goes, Dave's comments echo exactly what I was saying recently regarding a lack of top titles with the dealers. Not their fault of course, but a tricky situation all around.
We all want the dealers to have titles we want to buy and at prices which we are prepared to pay for them but no one now is going to sell a low fade feature in good Nick for 50 or 75 pounds.
So how can they fulfil our needs?
Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on August 27, 2015, 03:53 AM:
Thanks kevin. Thought it was a bit odd that there was nothing but hadn't found the A-C's at all. I'll have another look. Things don't look over wonderful for our hobby. We're a declining number fishing in a declining pool. But at least there's still the hope that we'll hook something really great so we carry on. Fortunately, our enjoyment doesn't rely upon new product (though we wish it was available) but just the opportunity to run what we've got and share our pleasure and knowledge with one another.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 27, 2015, 04:23 AM:
I believe there are plenty looking to buy still, as whatever new second hand quality titles come in the dealers,they seem to get sold very quickly indeed (certainly the case on 8).
So there is absolutely no shortage of interest out there, just a lack of quality prints being offered to the dealers, it would appear.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 27, 2015, 05:37 AM:
It seems that the high prices are the main problem for many flmmakers or collectors. The price of the filmstock has noticeabily increased recently. Although the choice of reversal stock has declined, there is still an interest for it. Even in 9.5, there is demand for camerastock. Waiting for Ferrania, new super 8 Kahl cartridges are again available since a few weeks. CHC and the Reel Image have new titles on super 8 films and if there is a sufficient demand and support they can print other ones. So it's up to us...
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