This is topic New Section For Digital? in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.
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Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 03, 2015, 05:18 AM:
As more and more of us are adding digital medium systems to our beloved projector collection, I think it's time for Doug to introduce a new section for digital matters only.
This will leave GENERAL YAK more free for posts which don't quite fit anywhere else.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 03, 2015, 05:52 AM:
excellent suggestion. as stated, more and more are using digital. its not going away. so i think an excellent idea.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 03, 2015, 06:02 AM:
I disagree,
This is a forum for film presentation. Having a specific digital section dilutes this sense of purpose. It exists to give a small group of people the chance to do their thing without the static we get everywhere else.
It's not that digital shouldn't ever be discussed here, it's that it's understood to be strictly incidental: such that it makes as much sense having dedicated sections for skateboarding and lawn darts.
I've been involved in at least one club that thought it would be good to expand by inviting a much larger group of people with related but different interests. The much larger group very shortly dominated the discussion and soon we were pushed out.
It's not even as if it's impossible to find a place to discuss digital presentation. The Internet being what it is there may be thousands of them! Leave this one for us.
So in summary:
No, No and No!
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 03, 2015, 06:33 AM:
Hmm...I've got to agree with Steve on this one.
There certainly has been a lot of digital shenanigans here of late, and I hold my hands up as being a prime culprit, but this is the "8mm forum" after all.
I think the General yak serves it's purpose and, as Steve points out, there are already loads of other forums for digital chat.
I say keep things as they are; certainly this is one of the most civilised and interesting forums out there and that is definitely due to the splendid, sensible members we have here, even if we don't always agree on everything.
Oh, and just a special mention for Doug, who thanklessly keeps us unruly kids in line!! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Paul Suchy (Member # 80) on August 03, 2015, 06:42 AM:
I'm with Steve and Rob; I visit here and the 16mm Forum in order to discuss and learn about film.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 03, 2015, 07:39 AM:
As I said earlier I am using digital at home for my daily entairtainment but it doesn't mean I need to know what is the most uptodate info about it. I can find it somewhere.
So BIG NO for digital section.
Cheers,
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 03, 2015, 07:50 AM:
it seems fear is showing its head here. sad but true.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 03, 2015, 08:01 AM:
I first thought that Maurice's sugestion was an option to think about to refrain the growing discussions over digital in other spaces of the forum but I reconsidered my first opinion after having read other messages I would more be on the no side. The name of the forum (8mm) should say what it is all aboutand as Steve said, talking about digital should remain incidental. What's more, I'm not sure that those who think the forum is too much contaminated by digital discussions would appreciate a kind of officialisation of it. So on a film dedicated forum digital is tolerated but not wanted.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 03, 2015, 08:08 AM:
so, is it so that this site does not encompass all things to do with film. whatever the format. if this is so, i find that very very sad indeed.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 03, 2015, 08:17 AM:
Paul, the forum is called 8mm. It has a 8 mm, 16 mm and 9.5 mm section. Obviousely, as I see things, the intention is to generate discussions mainly about celluloid film amateur and not movie in general.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 03, 2015, 08:24 AM:
well i find that very sad. i thought the people on here were lovers of the movies and the big screen experience.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 03, 2015, 08:27 AM:
No Paul,
We are just a specialty forum and want to keep it that way.
-reasonable allowance for video discussion: main focus still on film.
One of the issues here is in past years we've had these exact discussions and come to the exact same conclusion.
We had this (I suppose) well meaning guy come on here years ago telling us the future of "film" is video and we should all jump to his video forum. In the process of sending him packing we reached the conclusion that video is no more "film" than a Compact Disk is a "record".
-the conclusion stands.
I suppose if we had a video section along our usual lines it could be interesting.
-"What films did you watch last night" could become "What's on TV?".
So in conclusion: We are not a movie club, but a film club.
-literally
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 03, 2015, 08:34 AM:
so the film/movie content etc is immaterial. its the machines etc that are the main interests here.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 03, 2015, 08:40 AM:
It's really the combination of both.
-without the film, the equipment is just static display. I wouldn't be bothered with that.
If you really think about it, this combination makes perfect sense. If the equipment didn't matter, the obvious thing to do would have been to jump completely to video years ago.
What we do is not at all the shortest path to watching a movie. There has to be a reason other than just the image on screen.
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on August 03, 2015, 08:54 AM:
Sorry folks, digital media topics will continue to be discussed in the General Yak section. As stated in the description, that is the 8mm Forum's subforum "for yakking about random non-film topics (video included)."
Digital is a movie presentation method, however by definition it is a non-film medium, which this Forum is dedicated to.
Doug
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 03, 2015, 09:04 AM:
I agree with Steve and Rob. This is a film forum, but Doug and Brad have never said that digital video is a forbidden topic. I have always felt free to discuss digital projection here anytime I want , usually in the yak section. But the primary mission of this forum, as I understand it, is to share the experience of reel film projection and all that entails.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 03, 2015, 10:33 AM:
I am not against digital discussion. If it is acceptable, it should not be hidden away to be included with all sorts of other matters.
This is why I suggested that it should have its own section.
The alternative is not to include any digital discussion if the general agreement is that this is a film forum.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 03, 2015, 10:35 AM:
We now have a break away forum emerging for purists who have become tired with what is after all, one of the few film forums out there dedicated to the small gauges.
Once we introduce and promote more digital chat on here, it loses its sense of origin I feel and I fear more purists would seek to post elsewhere unfortunately.
I don't think any of the film collectors on here feel in any way threatened by digital technology advancements,as for some time now, everyone knows it is the easiest, most sensible and cost effective way to view a movie. However, some cine enthusiasts, simply do not see any relationship between the two.
Example;
Posting images of steelbook covers in a "Derann Disney" section on here???
Why?...It has nothing to do with the subject in question.
I think Doug and most people on here judging by the comments seen,have come to an obvious and sensible correct decision on this forum as to whether or not it should have a dedicated digital section.
As said previously by many, there are many many forums dedicated to all aspects of today's technologies, plenty that include Digital AVand digital home cinema.
If I were nowadays solely only interested in presenting my films digitally, then that is where I would be heading. That way I would be keeping up with all the latest news of the very best that can be offered by equipment used for presenting movies this way.
After all, If I started posting on those forums the benefit and joys of viewing movies the old fashioned way by projecting film, people on there would think I was nuts!
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 03, 2015, 11:12 AM:
There are predominantly digital forums with film sections, filled mostly with transfer and "Why are you still using this crap?!" discussions.
I remember one of these that started out all film, went video and had this nasty little party when Wallace and Gromit went toes up at Derann.
-so Yes, if there is any "fear" here it's not the rise of digital video but one day this forum suffering that same Borg style Assimilation!
(Resistance is NOT futile!)
-and yes, this is a film forum, but it is also a bunch of people being people, so it should have reasonable latitude to discuss a broad variety of things.
Here's just a few great things we've discussed that don't have a frame of film:
Fishing, boating and camping
Weather
Cars
Food
Our Families
Growing up/Growing old(er?)
Health
Sports
Morning (one of my favorites, actually)
Languages
Comedians
The expansion of a running joke until it bursts!
Music
Dogs and Cats
-and lo and behold, when I got it in my head to buy a video projector a few years ago, I asked about it here!
So things are fine. We should leave them that way.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 03, 2015, 11:34 AM:
I think a general yak section should be sufficiently all embracing to cover a wide ranges of topics. Would it not be more positive for film purists to post new topics or comment on existing topics on other boards rather than expelling their energies on topics they have declared no interest in reading.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 03, 2015, 12:35 PM:
HL Menken said:
"Puritanism is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."
How about we recognize that this is just a hobby and step back at least a half-step from being any kind of purists?
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 03, 2015, 12:45 PM:
Purist Steve not Puritan
Purist Steve not Puritan
Argument remains the same. Post more cine articles or comment on existing ones and you won't even notice the rest. 🎭
A purist is one who desires that an item remain true to its essence and free from adulterating or diluting influences. The term may be used in almost any field, and can be applied either to the self or to others. Use of the term may be either pejorative or complimentary, depending on the context. Because the appellation depends on subjective notions of what is "pure" as opposed to "adulterating" as applied to any particular item, conflict can arise both as to whether a person so labeled is actually a purist and as to whether that is desirable.
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 03, 2015, 12:47 PM:
Hi Mike
good to hear from you hope all is well.
I think the "General yak" is an ideal section as it stands - we can post about "big screen" movie entertainment which is great as well as digital observations - projector wise and other associated elements. All things in their own place it seems to me and the "Yak" section gives us the ability to expand conversation and further interest - bottom line is, no one is "forced" to post in any section - unless they want too. That's reasonable..each section I do agree though should stay within it's subject matter/focus.
General "Yak" is only a small section - but a valid one...but no-one is forced to post there.
Mark
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 03, 2015, 12:54 PM:
Totally agree with your comments Mark a small portion of a big forum.
Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 03, 2015, 01:13 PM:
I tend to agree with Maurice on this. Digital seems to dominate General Yak and sometimes bleeds over to other sections, so wouldn't an additional section devoted to Digital be a positive addition to the site? As has been said earlier, Digital is not going away, so why not embrace it, but in a way that separates it from the celluloid origins of the Forum.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 03, 2015, 01:15 PM:
I suppose if we are either Purists or Puritans, maybe it's just in the context of this forum and the conventions.
If I went to a presentation at work tomorrow, I'd be more shocked than the rest of the audience if the presenter dimmed the lights and lit up a real movie projector (mostly because I'd catch on much faster...)
-of course I'd have to talk to the guy afterwards.
Some of the brethren will not go out to a movie if it's not 35 or 70mm. That's their choice: I can't go that way. It's something I'd miss too much.
We showed projected video exactly once at CineSea. It was Jean-Marc Toussaint's "Super-8 Madness" so it was worthy of an exception.
By definition, CineSea is a film place, so it had to be an exception: same here.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 03, 2015, 01:20 PM:
i agree Terry. but sadly not many here want even to embrace it. they still see it as a threat. as the old saying goes THERES NOWT SO QUEER AS FOLK.
Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on August 03, 2015, 01:53 PM:
Well the sub title for General Yak says it clearly "Forum for yakking about random non-film topics (video included). " but perhaps the word video should be replaced with digital
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on August 03, 2015, 05:49 PM:
"General Yak" can cover anything from Bagpipes to Baked Potatoes...oh! ...even digital. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Its worked alright in the past
Posted by Clyde Miles (Member # 4032) on August 03, 2015, 06:01 PM:
won't be adding any digital to my screenings, just my penny worth
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 03, 2015, 07:48 PM:
I`ll admit I`m not really sure why there seems to be, well it feels/sounds a bit like panic re film or digital. Its not an either or thing anyway. They go so well together.
Most people on here who mention digital are long term members fully grounded in film, and still are enjoying it, like myself. But who are enjoying the fantastic film watching opportunities LCD projection etc offers us now.
It wasn`t a bad idea to suggest a digital zone if you will, but Yak does very well too.
Picture qaulity now using digital is stunning, I find it very filmic via LCD projection and not at all sterile etc myself. But opinions vary of course.
I borrowed my sons high end NEC semi instalation LCD projector tonight, and although just WXGA and 4000 contrast it has image qaulities that are way beyond anything I`ve seen, and popping a few Blu Rays on tonight it looks so good you can`t imagine.
But its not film. For me watching real film is about the faddling on, the collecting, the feeling, the rewinding etc.
If all of that does it for you, then it does.
This is still a film forum, but I think some of us also want to chat about, and share whats also new, and interesting in the whole film arena Whether digital things, memorabilia, 4K etc, you name it, and I think it all adds to the forum and doesn`t threaten anything that this smashing little forum offers.
It may even be keeping the numbers up a bit.
Best Mark.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 03, 2015, 08:40 PM:
Mark, and others
I think when we are setting up a forum for Vinyl collectors, we are not expecting there will be section for CD.
They are both about the same, i.e to enjoy the music, but they are different format. And I stand on my previous opinion that I am collecting super 8mm because my love to the format NOT to the picture quality.
Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on August 03, 2015, 09:14 PM:
Over the different topics of film vs digital I have to say it has been interesting to see the denominations forming....
Bill
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 04, 2015, 05:11 AM:
Hi Winbert, a Vinyl and CD analogy is quite good here in the sense that both are different, and enjoyed for different and the same reasons and both also sit side by side and are each enjoyed for what they offer. they compliment each other.
I remember listening to a radio show and they had 3 members of a well known long established band on, who I forget the name of , and the idea was to listen to various types of music media etc.
They played segments from 3 different tracks, one CD, one on Vinyl, and one MP3, and on each set of 3 the band members decided which one they thought sounded the best and nicest overall.
Anyway they playeed the 3 clips of all the 3 tracks mixed in with a bit of chatting etc until they then looked at what they all chose.
They had all 3 chosen the same media type track on each of the 3 tunes/songs etc as it happens, that they thought was nicest.
They all assumed they had picked the Vinyl, or possibly maybe even the CD, but when it came to it they had all chosen the MP3 from each one of the tracks.
They had all liked the most compressed, digital or if you like most bits missing media, they thought had the overall nicest sound to all to thier ears.
It was an interesting show.
Best Mark.
PS I still collect vinyl ( its on a surge at the moment ), even odd new ones, though I notice now most new vinyl comes with a free digital download code. Good example how various formats work well together.
But my favourite music is when I sit down with my youngest son on his laptop and we watch/listen to all sorts of music, pop, rock, classic, old, new, obscure etc on youtube, great fun and probably the least and most varying qaulity of the lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4BUkOjxuZo
Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on August 04, 2015, 07:22 AM:
I was always under the impression that folk posting on this forum were either current film users or former film users who had added digital media to their interests or even moved totally over to it. Their names are familiar to us all and I'd be sorry if our dedicated isolationism drove them away. I don't feel their postings are any intrusion, in fact I've found some very helpful. I look on the listings and choose what I want to read. It works quite well. Wonder how many here are over 60 and how the forum will look in ten years time with age taking it's toll of both hardware and the aging prints to play on them. I guess few folk in passing will see the title and deliberately choose to post digital only info. I was perfectly happy with the present set up and sorry this us and them thing has appeared.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 04, 2015, 10:00 AM:
Mark, I am talking about the nature of a forum. If we set up a vinyl collectors forum than we are talking vinyls as well as a CD collectors forum we are talking CDs. If we set up a music forum, we can talk any format, regardless Vinyl, CD, MP3 or live music.
Now, this 8mm forum NOT a film forum, so we talk 8mm.
As simple as that.
Cheers,
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 04, 2015, 10:49 AM:
Crikey! Now I'm confused!?
What can we talk about??? Can we talk about both Standard 8 and Super 8? Because that new "fancy-dan" Super 8 will never last you know as a format, what with it's tiny sprocket holes and lack of a proper camera gate. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Sorry guys, just kidding. Maybe we all need a break from this topic for a while. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on August 04, 2015, 11:42 AM:
So, with the past couple of posts from yesterday, I'm hearing the priority is the "format" and not the "picture quality" (!) -- and now it's "NOT a film forum"?
I'm confused, too!! 😃
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 04, 2015, 12:13 PM:
We need roughly a five year break from this topic. About five years ago we had basically the same debate and reached the same conclusion.
We settled again on Page 1 of this thread, so we are good to go until 2020.
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 04, 2015, 12:43 PM:
but there has been much change from 5 years ago.
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 04, 2015, 12:43 PM:
Steve, I second that motion...
Paul, seems some here don't want to discuss the evolvement, so maybe we are in the wrong place here.
I love this group of film guys n' girls and wouldn't want to upset that, especially the sense of humour.
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 04, 2015, 12:49 PM:
Lol!...Thank goodness we have the "general Yak" section as previously stated...all posts have a place on this forum - which is great!As it should be.
Digital interest can be posted in this section "general Yak" as it says..so what is the problem?
The rest is all devoted to not just 8mm...but also 16mm...9.5mm..so plenty of areas for all.
I think it is best to draw a line under this now..c'mon. The tiny thread in "Yak" about digital is hardly going to change the "world" of every "pure film" enthusiast - nothing to be scared about. It is all of an interest and good conversation.
Best
Mark
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 04, 2015, 12:51 PM:
I'm off to watch a movie...
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 04, 2015, 01:14 PM:
Mark. some common sense spoken there.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 04, 2015, 01:18 PM:
Roughly 5 years ago somebody who made it his mission to enlighten us poor backward folk showed up here to tell us the era of film was over and our next great step was to join him watching DVDs.
His main idea was that the BFCC needed to shift emphasis to accommodate video as well as film.
(It did not go over well at all...)
He was actually kind of fun to have around for a couple of days: called the stuff we wind on reels "film tape".
(I believe his closing comment when he returned to his own forum was that we could all **** ourselves. What a nice man!)
So once again we find ourselves having this exact same discussion, so nothing important has changed in five years.
-see ya in 2020.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 04, 2015, 01:28 PM:
No John, as far as I know this is NOT a film forum. This is 8mm forum as seen by its name (with the development to 16mm and 9.5mm later on).
We are here because of the film format, and then we talk the projector as the main machine to play this format. Sometimes we also discuss about the camera and blank film...again on 8mm format. While discussing about this format, we then talk about the film but yet the films must be on 8mm format (see our review section).
So this forum is indeed dedicated to the format, and we have to admit that.
If this is about the quality of the picture then we are not showing/screenshoting our faded or scratchy prints.
Cheers,
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 04, 2015, 01:58 PM:
Steve, you're one of the most sensible blokes here and with a truly great sense of humour.
If I've ever come across as being a "digital advocate", that is because, well, I can be. But with due caution.
I'm not sure who you are referring too 5 years ago, but I'll have a look back. No one likes a "know it all".
Certainly, amateur and professional status can make a big difference.
In my own world, things move so fast that I think I can never keep up; and I don't mean artistically, just financially which is a shame.
As we all know here, in the last few years, film projection has basically finished.
Only a couple of months ago a dear friend of mine, a cameraman I have known and respected for may years, informed me that his a son had lost his job as a projectionist.
This, despite training in the latest digital and IMAX formats.
He is only young and with a new family.
I wonder if we all feel a massive loss here that we can't explain.
Perhaps the loss of "film" is going deeper than just our own feelings here on the forum.
Maybe that is why such varied passions are arising?
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 04, 2015, 02:18 PM:
I can't say who it was. Won't stop you from searching for it though.
Let's look at this way. What if you were some wildlife official somewhere. Let's say you were put in charge of an endangered species. Would you give it a refuge, or just dump it in with all the other animals?
I have a gift for the folks that want a video-cinema forum:
Here's TEN of 'em:
Home Theater Forums
Home Theater Shack
Audioholics
Anandtech
Home Media Magazine
Best Buy
Avs Forum
Av Forum (No "S")
Home Cinema Banter
What HiFi
They weren't even that hard to find: ten minutes tops! There were pages and pages of others in Google I never opened.
We'd have a snowball's chance of getting a sprocketed film section on any of these, but they are all available to the video enthusiast.
Choose one, choose 'em all: leave this forum alone!
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 04, 2015, 02:48 PM:
Steve. nobody is trying to take anything away, or take over this forum in another format. but as we have seen, there are many on here who like both film and digital projection.are they really a danger or a threato this forum. i view this site because i have a fondness for 8 and 16mm. even though i do not collect it anymore, for reasons i have stated in the past. but i still like to see and hear comments etc for those that still do.
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 04, 2015, 02:57 PM:
Hi Steve/Winbert
no-one is attacking the purity of 8mm film collectors on this forum. I have collected since 1973, 8mm and then moved toward 16mm and managed to own nearly every title under the sun - but I also moved into the digital age. I love the tactile 8mm - which I still have and dabble in - but I also move "sideways"..with the other stuff. I essentially - always like the "movie" presentation with friends/family gathered...watching a show. Adverts, trailers - ice creams.. the whole she-bang. That is me! Not insular but catering to my audience..and I still have 8mm and use it regularly. (Thanks to Mark Todd).
The general "Yak" thread again is emphasised...a place to post about general stuff and video/digital.If I am accurate this tiny place to post has been here for quite a while - a couple of years, and we post there/here - is there anything wrong with that? I don't think so...it complements and enhances the interest.
It is obviously of interest to members who like me have collected for decades - 8mm wise and still do - but "Yak" is a tiny ..almost mini thread to post on other subjects around movies/film..ANYTHING in general connected to it.
So let us embrace this forum - Brad Miller and Doug have done a good job - But they are fair and consistant - so I think general "yak" is a good place to post..it is good guys..it can all exist..now lets all go and have a beer...
let us just keep the posts within their own "forum" framework...no one asks anyone to respond to a post in "Yak"..they do it because they want to.
It is as used to be said by the late Bob Hoskins in the u.k. BT adverts.."Good to Talk".
Mark
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 04, 2015, 04:34 PM:
I am, as I nearly always am, with Steve on this one.
He lists just a handful of the links that are available for all things digital,projection very much included.
It's far more difficult for people like Mark I would have thought, to dedicate his digital posts where they are appreciated the most and his knowledge on the subject be reached to a wider audience, as he genuinely has a working interest still to this day in both film and digital projection. So I can perfectly understand why this forum is the perfect place for him still.
For others though, especially those who just appear hell bent on just disrespecting any of the film gauges and its present day users in this era, while waxing lyrical on the benefits and superiority of screening digitally, then I honestly cannot understand what would motivate a person to post here?
This isn't the most technical or knowledgeable arena for digital technology posts as it Simply doesn't have the member numbers that some of the very popular digital AV forums have.
When I was a past user of film and solely a new and enthusiastic user of digital projection and software, never once did I think a film forum would have been the very best place to talk and research all of the latest digital products and releases.
I purchased "What Home Cinema", "Home Cinema Choice", "What Hi Fi & Home Video" etc etc.I then went on either their forums or similar and found thousands of useful posts and links to assist me with my new venture.
We have some truly super knowledgeable guys on here for all things AV be it film or video. People like Rob for instance who has no end of experience and knowledge with both subjects,but ultimately there is a wider audience to be reached than the one that is here by using a dedicated digital forum and without disrespecting those that use this forum for what it was first and foremost primarily intended for.
Surely for those who no longer have any interest or passion for real film, Steve's recommendations and others offer a better service and a more appreciative audience for their interests.
Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on August 04, 2015, 06:49 PM:
I like film and I like digital (not for the same reasons, and not usually at the same time). They both have their place and tremendous advantages AND disadvantages. This forum has been a tremendous asset and help to many of us because of the unique hobbyists who "live" here. So I agree with Steve's excellent comments and Doug's decision to not open a new section, although renaming the "General Yak" subheading to specifically state "(including digital video)" might not be a bad idea.
So thank you all for helping make this hobby even better and more fun. And I don't mind the occasional video comment because, let's face it, there are just some things you can't do with film. However, like you, handling and running film is just wonderful and fussy fun. So, when we open our home for friends to join us, the biggest efforts are always for FILM-based nights (I have to borrow or rent to do video, so that's rare) because there are just some great old-time things that don't work as well on video - Laurel & Hardy, Technicolor (wish I could afford more of that), etc. And what's more fun than the group dynamic of enjoying it together?
So thanks for keeping the main thing the main thing, and kudos as always to our host Brad and to Doug for moderating as well.
In this age of all-digital technology, getting others to appreciate our hobby is more important, more unique, and therefore more fun than ever.
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on August 04, 2015, 06:51 PM:
With all due respect, I don't see how a handful of digital-related responses in the General Yak section constitutes disrespect -- and I don't see anyone hellbent on disrespecting the film gauges. What I see are some long-time film collectors (which includes me) expanding their screening/projecting options with digital, pure and simple. However, I'm not dumping my Super 8/16 mm films and, in fact, have purchased some Super 8/16mm films just this year.
In my 40-plus of film collecting, I have always strived to obtain the best print and sound quality possible. I'm simply happy that technology has advanced to the point to enable me to achieve that print and sound quality on a consistent basis. (The operative word being "consistent.") Call me crazy, but isn't that ultimately a good thing?
I'm not aware (or can't remember!) what happened five years ago on this forum, but I'd hate to think that the film hobby has become so fragile and/or so insular that something that is ultimately a good thing, like the explosion of available, but optional, screening options (the discussion of which is legitimately confined to the General Yak section) is somehow viewed as anxiety-producing (?).
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 04, 2015, 07:21 PM:
John, I have much respect and regard for all of your postings on here, but just as Dominique pointed out and quoted on here another members comments recently, there has of course been been plenty of disrespectful comments spoken of the Super 8mm guage and film in general on here lately.
Of course there have been statements by individuals on here of the huge advantages of Video over film for projection purposes and as a collecting medium.
If you like, I will trawl through examples of such, but if you honestly think there has been no derogatory comments or disrespect shown recently towards film and it's collectors among all of this digital chat John, then I'm sorry but as Julie Andrews once famously said...
"you can't see beyond the end of your nose" Im afraid.
For me personally, I don't care. As much as my true passion lies with film, I love all quality projected images and appreciate the machines Cine or Digital that can do so.
But for others who don't care one Iota for digital media, then I equally can understand how they would be upset by this obvious apparent disrespect for film and it's collectors, especially on a film forum.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 04, 2015, 07:38 PM:
I`m not sure whats happened now John, to have this flurry going on. I`m at a loss.
I`m still in to film as well, but hands up I love the qaulity and choice of digital we now have as well. And the afforablity etc. We all know the pros and cons of both things.
As we keep saying as well, the two go together so well. If anyone wants to do both ?
Having digital also allows you to be a bit more cautious, and longer term film wise keeping away from the various rip off merchants we all come accross in film, rather than jumping compulsively in, to be burned ( again and again ).
All of that sort of thing does far more harm to the film hobby than a few bit of interest non film posts on here.
Also we have to face up to it, that new product in real film is now almost over. CHC are doing well if they break even, even !!! They often don`t.
Last time I bought a new super 8 film was about 4 years ago,only a trailer as well.
Getting a bit restrictive or protectionist is more likely to reduce membership on here.
No one has said dump " your " films and " go " digital or anything like that, or that anyone " must " do digital either.
Its all free choice, and what people fancy, and I think the best thing we can do for the forum is let the whole issue go, be tollerant of whatever anyone wants to say or share or ask about completely.
Laurence Oliver asks in Marathon Man. " Is it safe "
I`m sure it is.
Best Mark.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 04, 2015, 07:48 PM:
Film has been over for years Mark (around two years prior to Derann closing).
There is now other ways of viewing modern films in the home perfectly. Everyone is acutely aware of that.
On here the talk of films screened will never ever be about anything after 2010 max I reckon as far as feature films are concerned.
It makes no difference Mark, people like myself will be watching classic films until we're gone.
We get it that there are no alternatives nowadays with new released films than to screen them digitally.
What's this talk over "things have changed over the past 5 years" is about, I do not know?
I've been in and out and back in the film collecting hobby since this was last relevant talk!
Absolutely nothing has changed since then, it had ended then just as it has ended now. So now is the time to enjoy 50 years of work!
[ August 04, 2015, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 04, 2015, 08:03 PM:
Well that says it really Andrew that things need to be a bit open on here, to keep some interest going, and a decent membership going as well. Or its going to contract.
Maybe some of us who still love film should all write CHC a cheque for £50 or £100 and send it along with thanks.
I keep suggesting we do something bewteen us to be able to offer any newbies an affordbale machine and a few films etc to get them going and no-one seems interested really. Thats OK, just a thought etc.
But films a bit of an insular hobby as well really.
If the forum gets a bit insular as well, who knows.
Best Mark.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 04, 2015, 08:09 PM:
Pipe dreams Mark I'm afraid. It ain't gonna happen.
People talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.
Each year I know people like Vidar and myself must spend a couple of thousand on film and projectors but sadly we are very much a dying breed.
It would need hundreds like us, and they just aren't out there.
The forum is safe in the immediate I would say, there is more than enough interest still.
BTW I promote to potential new members on here as a FILM forum regularly, since doing so the numbers each calendar month have only ever risen.
Some people want just to renew their 4x4 every two or three years, I just want my 13yr old reliable and a cabinet full of S8 features on the other hand.
You pay's you're money, you take ur choice!
Posted by David C. Lucidi (Member # 4020) on August 08, 2015, 04:18 PM:
I don't post here as much as other film forums, but I have to say, it's somewhat ridiculous seeing some of these people posting, and trying to stir up emotions. Making arguments that contain comments like "fear", "very sad", etc., are both immature and somewhat disrespectful to the general basics of what this forum is about.
Last time I checked, it's called 8mm forum, with a sub-division for 16mm and 9.5mm. In other words, FILM. I can 99.9% guarantee that this forum would ALSO welcome 35mm chat, except that their is already a separate forum for that, from the same guy who started this forum (Brad Miller). 95% of this forum consists of discussing things like FILM projector repairs, FILM sales (or wants), FILM restoration (i.e., splicing, replacement footage, repair of torn sprockets, etc.). It also deals with other aspects of FILM usage, such as replacement parts (projectors, reels, lenses, bulbs), etc. ALL of the film-related forums discuss these topics.
Then there is the 'General Yak', which is essentially any topic you want, minus religion and politics. That includes letting those that desire it, bring up the occasional digital discussion/question/comparison, etc.
And now, now a small group complain that is not enough? Oh the humanity, we are suddenly not a 'one size fits all forum' because a handful of members can't get their sub-forum. Perish the thought! How inconsiderate of us to not accommodate your non-film request! Sheesh.
Tell me WHY it is, that because a SMALL handful of people on here want to add a sub-forum about digital projection (and then whine whine WHINE about it when the majority of members, AND moderator, say no)....tell me WHY we have to listen to this nonsense? Don't like what this forum offers? Here's a tip -- LEAVE and find another forum! Steve was kind enough to post 10 other choices. But don't come into a forum that is all about film, AND allows you a 'general' forum for your other discussion needs, and THEN expect that your whining is going to get you your way. As the moderator already said, the answer is no. Constantly posting about how outdated people are, how 'sad' it is, etc. just shows how immature you really are when you don't get your way. Grow up!
You already have a General Yak to post as MUCH as you want about digital topics. If that isn't enough, the log-out button is in the upper left hand corner next to your name. Remember, no one is forcing you to be here...if you don't like the content and the options offered, oh well.
BTW, how many digital forums have separate forums for 8mm, 16mm, and 35mm?
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 08, 2015, 04:32 PM:
Some excellent points raised there David! Well said Sir.
As said, for followers of both hobbies the general yak does just fine, for people wanting to slag off 50 to over 100 year old technology as it has finally been surpassed by new technologies in the last decade, then why not use one Steve's recommended AV Forums.
There are plenty of like minded individuals there and film lovers on the film forum here don't have to read comments disrespecting their hobby.
As also said, I enjoy all projected formats in the home, but my passion lies only with film.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 08, 2015, 04:49 PM:
Amen and Amen, David!
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on August 08, 2015, 06:28 PM:
Frankly reading through this stuff I feel that some are getting a bit carried away with such comments as "disrespectful to this hobby" a bit over the top don't you think?
Disrespectful.....where? I don't see it.
The bottom line its a film forum and Doug has already said "no" to that request. I cant help but feel there has been "fuel" added to the fire which makes things unpleasant.
Anyway I better go before I am accused of being "disrespectful" as well
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 08, 2015, 07:03 PM:
Graham, for me to further explain the comment in depth,would be just going over the same old ground again as has been explained recently.
I gave my reasons and my reasoning for them then.
I highlighted a post from Dominique quoting another members comments towards film v digital as being an example of where the hobby had been disrespected in my view.
It won't be everyone's point of view, but it was a view especially shared by one or two non digital fans on here, myself not being one them.
Hope this fully explains my comment Graham and hopefully this subject can have a line drawn under it now.
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on August 09, 2015, 12:06 AM:
Andrew
This is still the "General Yak" section and folk like you, me and anyone else can still continue to comment if they "wish" providing they keep within the forum rules.
Graham.
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on August 09, 2015, 03:47 AM:
Of course the great hope is that digital or video only users will discover this forum and expand into real film aka Cine. If we restrict the video posts we could me missing a trick.
I never used to be in favour of video posts but times they are and have changed somewhat over the last decade or so. The majority of cine users I know have a video projector sat next to cine machines so I would be quite relaxed about the posts rather than a hint of bordering them away.
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 09, 2015, 04:18 AM:
Hi all - well said Lee and Graham,
as has already been stated "general yak" is a great section to post. No one wants to change this forum...so lets all leave it there for goodness sake.It's a hobby.I am now on 2 weeks annual leave. Lets enjoy the summer...I know I am going to.
I have noticed that Vidar has set his own film forum up now with Robert Crewdson and someone else on-board - more choices for everyone I guess.
Have a good Sunday
Mark
Best to all - "tuned out nice again..hee hee!"
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 09, 2015, 04:36 AM:
Thats the only sorrowful aspect of this in my opinion.
People like Vidar and Robert were highly valued on here by myself and no doubt many others.
It is always a shame when active users of film decide to leave, what I think we all agree on, is the best forum already.
It isn't something that I personally would have done, but they felt the forum had become overrun with digital talk recently and included digital postings encroaching over into the 8mm section etc.
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 09, 2015, 04:45 AM:
Hi Andrew
I understand - they may come back.
I think any posts regarding a digital element have been confined in the main to a couple of threads. And they are generally well balanced I think.
I do think there has been - in all, a little bit of an over reaction..it has all been confined to a couple of threads- that is just my opinion.
Time to move on. And like we have said before the subject sections that are there to post on were put there by Brad and Doug not by anyone else. Anyone who makes a digital comment on general yak...does not from what I have seen go and berate someone on a "film thread post" - each relevant to the subject matter.
Have a good Sunday.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 09, 2015, 05:05 AM:
You too Mark thanks and here's hoping!
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 09, 2015, 05:30 AM:
I`m still not getting why there was any issue. But I understand the fear of films decline if you really love it, but then you keep that going yourself.
You go on any forum, even with a fairly narrow interest people talk about allsorts of things. And things that have moved on relating to that as well etc.
People in to old valve radio,s etc for instance, talk about digital radio and modern radios etc. And have both.
People who talked or discussed digital here are all still real filmy like myself, or to a much lesser extent were filmie big time, but still love this forum and have a great fondness for real film.
No-one has swooped in from the outside and knocked cine etc.
Surely from a digital starting point is where we might hope for the odd convert, or part interested party and member here like Max recently.
Nothing can beat the fun of projecting a nice big real film image and the fun of the cin`e machines etc. But like wise sharing a nice big digital image is great fun too.
Maybe the future of film hanging on is people who start digital, and then add a little cine as well.
As has been said the more we discuss, the more people will trip over this forum, and who knows.
Its sad if anyone leaves this great little spot, and I don`t think they needed to, and hope they return or still contribute here too.
There will be other cracking little forums out there too on other things I`m sure, but you`d have to be very lucky to find one for your interest like this one, and so friendly and nice as it is on here too.
Best Mark.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 09, 2015, 05:37 AM:
I agree Mark in that we have a nucleus of very decent individuals on here, hence why it is upsetting when some of those people feel this is no longer the place for their needs.
Here's hoping for their swift return!
Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on August 16, 2015, 09:27 AM:
Oh dear Maurice, you do appear to have let the cat amongst the pigeons with your suggestion. It has raised a lot of issues and it saddens me to think that the result is that some members have left the forum. Personally, I have not read any examples of anyone denigrating those of us who still endeavour to collect and use cine projectors. As has been stated by many of us, we have had to embrace digital as there is no longer any other alternative if our hobby of Home cinema is to continue into the future. The bonus of digital is that it allows us to collect and display films that have never been available to us before and at such low prices. Film collecting is no longer the prerogative of the rich. Also, as Lee comments, younger generations are becoming increasingly curious about past formats and the forum can encourage this interest. I agree that there is no place on any part of this forum for comments which criticize or insult users of any format, but I have yet to come across any. I am sure that "General Yak" is the place for any digital inquiries and information. As an old 9.5mm fan, I well remember some of the comments published in Amateur Cine World and Movie Maker magazine letters column, by users of the new Super 8 gauges, how superior it was to 9.5mm and implying that we were out of date and should change to the latest Kodak wonder, often accompanied with other "unkind " comments!! Sadly there are always people like this. Increasingly these days from what I hear about things published on Face book and Twitter. I do hope that those members who have decided to leave will return and continue their valuable contributions. Ken Finch.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 16, 2015, 10:12 AM:
It all seems a little sad that they have expended so much time and energy rallying against a few non 8mm threads. Surely if they had made an effort and posted a few more cine articles they wouldn't have noticed the "yak". Now they have gone to the trouble of setting up a more restrictive alternative forum which will duplicate & regurgitate everything that has already been done before in an attempt to generate interest. No doubt they will find offence at telling them straight but as the Blues Brothers would say they are on a mission.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 16, 2015, 12:16 PM:
Sorry Mike, don't like having to do this, but I strongly disagree!
Vidar was a regular poster on here and his appreciation of all things "film" is much missed by myself as he now posts less and less on here.
Robert is a veteran in 16mm, if you contemplate Maurice doing the same, then the forum would be a lonely and a far worse off place to visit.
We need to hear more from the people who are the stalwarts of this forum and we all are responsible for keeping them here.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 16, 2015, 12:26 PM:
Andrew I'm not knocking anybody but one or two of them seem to have made a mountain out of a molehilll. They are off doing their own thing and good success to them. I am sure they will post when they find a thread of interest to them.
[ August 16, 2015, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Mike Newell ]
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 17, 2015, 04:26 AM:
I agree Mike it is about being flexible and just simply posting within the threads really.It is all of interest and as we and other have said - everything in it's place.
I started out in 8mm over 40 years ago...and I am sure Mike comes from that time too. I have loved film and still do but it is nice to discuss "sidewardly" elements if you like...as in digital projection. I had long discussions with Derek around this subject and right till he died he was very much of my frame of mind - "you can collect both".Or as I quote him "People dont' just go to work on Bike's anymore".. The problem comes when you have almost an obsessive "polarisation" either way hence the great need to stay within sections..simple...I say again this is in now way to detract from film...as most know how many titles I have had - still have a bit of 8mm to "fiddle" with, etc.
The point is these conversations are very relevant within this forum - it can direct and bring others into all aspects of the hobby. I also like the fact that there is a maturity and decency with people who post here. That is great.
I know where you are coming from to Andrew - I have a lot of respect for your posts and enthusiasm. It is good though to have this general yak section - the pure intelligent activity on this thread PROVES that.
Have a good day guys.
Mark
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 04:35 AM:
I can't disagree, nor would want to for anything written here Mark, I just hope Mike is correct in his predictions regarding a few of our very well respected and currently somewhat dissatisfied veteran forum members.
Here's hoping Mike.
Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on August 17, 2015, 04:49 AM:
Here you are fighting for your right to talk digital. And we are suppose to be the bad ones? It gets less and less friendly here and I feel bad that someone would not welcome a forum where we talk only film.
Guess the urge to post here get lessened every time I check.
And getting nasty because we call ourselves film lovers, that's just weird to me. You can call yourself movie lovers, since you don't care how the movie is projected. I call myself a film lover, because the magic feeling I get when projecting film. It's not there when I project a movie on video.
Don't think I'll reply to this anymore, just getting to nasty in here
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 17, 2015, 04:57 AM:
That would be sad, Vidar. Your posts are valuable as they focus on real film. Digital can be discussed everywhere, but film has not a lot of places of its own. Let's preserve this space mainly for film (and if digital is discussed it should be done without suggesting it is better than film).
Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 17, 2015, 05:52 AM:
wrong Dominique wrong. what you suggest is to censor other peoples point of view.
Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on August 17, 2015, 06:03 AM:
Sorry, just have to one more time ... Why not create one forum where you can talk about everything then? It's a specialised forum for film, not censorship. This is ridiculous and I resent being called disrepectful and arrogant, just because I love film. My comments on true film lovers shouldn't be an insult unless you're not a true film lover. No point, even if we get only a few members, we enjoy the atmosphere in our forum, it's friendly, not like here (I used to think just about everyone of you was a nice guy, reconsidering this now) ... Still can't believe you not see all the pro digital posings, is it only going out to me?
Now you can slam me all you want, I won't respond to anything more in this thread now
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 17, 2015, 06:21 AM:
Paul, I can hardly understand why people take the trouble of making a profile and posting on a film forum if they prefer digital. By the way, you cannot discuss all the subjects on this forum, so in your vision, there is already a censorship. In my point of vue, it is to keep a nice exchange between members. Again, I have nothing against digital, nor discussion about it but there have been unnecessary denigrating messages against film(I quoted an example).
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on August 17, 2015, 08:43 AM:
Wow. Remember, it's only a hobby, not a religion that one is supposed to pledge allegiance to.
To my eyes, the overwhelming number of posts, even when mentioning digital, are from those film collectors, including me, who have incorporated digital into their screening pursuits. Not sure what is wrong with that? While I thoroughly enjoy what digital has added to my screening pursuits, I will always keep my films and purchase those films that interest me. But one section on the much larger forum where the word "digital" is breathed (that really only accounts for a very small percentage of the total posts) shouldn't be viewed as a threat by those in the hobby who seem to require a purist oath.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 09:13 AM:
John, the debate could, and would, just go on forever. Around and around in circles.
Dom and Vidar have said their view, You, Paul and others, theirs.
I really cannot see any point in even discussing this subject any longer. It just cannot come to any conclusion that will suit everyone.
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on August 17, 2015, 09:16 AM:
Thanks Andrew, but I believe the forum members should determine that.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 17, 2015, 09:20 AM:
The words film and movie to me we're always interchangeable. They didn't represent any kind ownership or any other gauge or format.
I am curious to be a film lover do you have monogamous to one gauge for the rest of your life or can you have an mistress in 16mm as well or heavens forbid have second partner ( see very pc) stashed away called digital who does every thing for you that you only imagined but we're afraid to ask👄👄👄
Once we get this out of the way can decide the BIG issues like can you really be a film lover without making the proper commitment to her I.e a home cinema setting . Does watching your latest purchase on the back of a door or side of a fridge whilst eating a ham and pickle sandwich show TRUE LOVE!!!!!
Finally and this is the BIG one. When you build, steal or borrow to obtain your home cinema is it really compulsory to have curtains / motorised curtains and little pink auditorium lights which MUST be dimmed at the correct moment!!!
It remember being instructed at a Blackpool convention I couldn't have proper real authentic home cinema (not movie house) without the above. No wonder I strayed from the light or was it the projector beam?
Miss Digital was so compatible , easy and available how could I resist the temptation?
Well away to have a cup of tea I willflagellate myself with some super 8 later I would use a proper gauge like 16mm but costs to much.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 17, 2015, 09:24 AM:
Ken's comments about Amateur Cine World brought back memories of one of their most vitriolic photo journalist's. I think his name was Dennis Davis, not sure about that. The thing was that he absolutely hated 8mm films and took every opportunity to berate the guage. In his mind no 8mm films should have been allowed into the ACW Ten Best competition, only 16mm films were worthy enough. He made comments about 'these nasty little films", and I think he may have lost his job over it.
The point is that today the film community is pretty united, and all film gauges pretty well get the same level of respect. Maybe the so called 'common enemy' of digital cinema has produced this unity, but historically there have always been people that feel their chosen medium is superior to everyone else's. Why can't people get the simple fact that digital is neither superior nor inferior to film, it's just different. And vice versa.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 17, 2015, 09:37 AM:
Don't kid yourself Paul under every vintage 16mm collector there is a super 8 hater. Upto until the 1980s they always had a point in regards to print and availability of titles but once Derann started to release feature prints in a quality that have never been dreamed of they were blown out of the water. Added to that was 16mm hire prints virtually disappeared overnight so they were left with no new titles.
Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on August 17, 2015, 10:07 AM:
....if people come here to belittle film, then I would have to say I agree with Dom and Vidar on this one.
I don't mind digital talk, but only if it has to do with the 8mm process, that is, if someone posted here saying: "I would like to know how to transfer my 8mm home movies(or whatever) to digital because I am afraid that over the years I will loose the memories", then I feel it is perfectly valid.
However, if someone comes here to say Digital is 'better' than 'film' because the quality is, say, clearer...or whatever....then I guess that it is their opinion, but I think we should consider the conscience of others. Some people really believe(it seems) that in 300+ years from now, they will still have working film. I think even Derann may disagree. Time will tell i suppose...
I also think this applies in reverse, that is, we should respect the opinions of others, as long as they are not degrading.
This kind of argument is on every forum I've been on. On a pinball forum i belong too, people endless chatter about which authoring platform is better....and the argument has gone for years now. Some people like the arguing, others continue playing pinball...
I certainly will not continue about it because i've learned better, but thought others may like to know this info as well. I am going to watch 'Moan and Groan'(Rascals) with my kids right now
Cheers,
Matt
Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on August 17, 2015, 10:47 AM:
I would certainly miss the regular contributions from Vidar and others if they decide not to post here any more, although respectfully this is the only film forum I will ever join or contribute to.
My interests span three film gauges and digital projection, however I rarely find much to discuss on the latter hobby wise (ie: insert disk, press play, watch movie) whereas even after so many years the hands-on aspects of real film projection and cine equipment maintenance still continue to give me great pleasure.
Kevin
Posted by Steve Carter (Member # 4821) on August 17, 2015, 11:18 AM:
Pinball Matt, I like playing Gorgar and Monster Bash Monsters of Rock...going off subject...
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 11:53 AM:
Kevin's latest response just cements exactly what I highlighted about 2 or 3 pages ago.
We all (well at least most of us), can appreciate the glorious images thrown up at our screens using the latest digital HD PJ's, but the bottom line is, just as Kevin so eloquently points out,it just isn't much of a hobby, is it?
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 17, 2015, 12:03 PM:
Hi all,
not one person on this thread has denigrated film - we all love it..but we also like projecting digital that means "big screen home presentation"..- Vidar, you are wrong to make such assumptions...we are just expressing our individual opinions...I have been in this business 40 years how long you?..step up to the plate "..... and the old members will tell you I have.....why do you get so worked up..AND ANGRY ALL THE TIME over this subject.. We HAVE a right as film enthusiast to express our opinion...whats wrong with that?? Why don't you and others just focus on the "8mm" pages - your specific subject...why are you even commenting on digital (general Yak thread) if it is like the "devil incarnate" come..on....if anyone does not like this "quite simple" thread on General Yak...then don't post on it - "simples"...Believe it or not I work in mental health and have done for 16 years...lets us just leave it. Brad has been good enough to leave us "Gen Yak"...leave it at that... that's the place to post on these subjects...the rest can post within their relative subject threads...what wrong with that.
Enjoy your holidays...by the way Vidor I may meet up in Black ool as I am hoping to go...I will be wearing my ""bullet" proof vest Dave has kindly ordered me one! loL. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 17, 2015, 12:15 PM:
For all those who keep on saying film has not been denigrated, I repost my message from the thread "Too Much Digital On The Forum" (8mm section) : This is the kind of message I would put in the category "denigrating films vs digital" (it doesn't matter who wrote it, I just take this as an example to make things clearer and I don't want-I do insist on that-to blame anyone) : "i love blu ray. i have several steelbook editions. after years of collecting 8mm and 16mm i am now able to watch favourite films in great great quality. no worries re damage scratches fade etc. and excellent price too.god knows it beats me some of the quality some people will endure on 8 and 16. but everyone to their own.gone are my days of recieving dodgy prints and spending a small fortune for the privledge. had enough of that thank you very much. some really nice artwork on steelbooks so i understand people wanting and collecting them.some fabulous titles available too."
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 12:35 PM:
Your wasting your breath Dominique. It will just fall on deaf ears unfortunately and as said, there will be no resolution or unification with this one.
We all have different opinions on this one and as such, as said, whatever is said now on this topic has almost certainly already been said.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 17, 2015, 12:43 PM:
The irony is if Super 8 was the same price as a DVD that particularly contributor would actually choose Super 8 to buy. I think he was being enthusiastic about his DVD steel boxes (were he gets the storage space is beyond me) rather than scoring any points. However if some analyse and dissect every word then no doubt offence will be taken were none was implied or intended.
Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on August 17, 2015, 01:22 PM:
I really don't understand all this. I've noticed the odd digital entries. If it interests me I read it. If it doesn't I don't. If an entry on film interests me I read it. If it doesn't I pass over it. If someone rubishes film (and it rarely happens) for whatever reason I read it and come to my own conclusions. All of us from a film background have interests, opinions and ideas. On the film forums I've read letters about cars and joke entries (nothing to do with film) that made me laugh, and some I didn't understand at all because the writers were of USA backgrounds. I always thought it was about sharing a movie interest with humour and tolerance. Shame we've come almost to falling out. I liked things as they were, all sharing and adding our film and digital thoughts queries and discoveries. Long may it continue
Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 17, 2015, 01:33 PM:
Doesn't all this argument back and forth just reinforce the original suggestion from Maurice for an additional section dedicated to digital? It seems to me to be a perfectly valid and sensible idea and surely it would put a stop to all the 'nastiness'. Personally I hope the moderators think again after seeing the strong opinions on this matter.
Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on August 17, 2015, 02:24 PM:
I just had a sit back from this topic, had a thought then laughed.
This forum doesn't need a digital section - it is all digital as it's on the internet a completely digital system.
PS I know this post is trite but I did laugh...
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 17, 2015, 02:40 PM:
I think it is better now for th two moderators to close (even delete) this post as it has gone non sense.
Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 17, 2015, 03:29 PM:
Weinbert
I have always respected your thoughtful and intelligent postings but I disagree. This topic has generated serious debate on a problem that threatens the fundamentals of the forum. The basics are this - Film or Digital. I - and I am sure many other like minded, have no problem combining the two, but we should have the choice to view what our preference is. Therefore it makes absolutel sense to have a 'digital section' for those with a preference for this and for those with a Film preference to skip this section and concentrate on celluloid. What could be simpler! Again I appeal to the moderators to think again.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 17, 2015, 03:37 PM:
Hey the weather was nice today
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 03:48 PM:
Can we have a dedicated section for global weather reports here please moderator? : ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 17, 2015, 03:54 PM:
Nice day here too Tom . A few thunderstorms predicted in next few days.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 03:58 PM:
Another Sunny Day here again at "rainbows end" AKA Blue Moon Way!
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 17, 2015, 04:09 PM:
Thought it always rained in Manchester? You will bring in water rationing with that talk.
Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on August 17, 2015, 04:17 PM:
Didn't Andrew tell you, he always gets 8mm of rain in Manchester, that's why he's loves it so much !!!!!!!.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 17, 2015, 04:22 PM:
Long as it's not 16mm 35mm or 70mm ! My fingers burned when I was typing those. Is that normal or am I to digitalised?
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 04:24 PM:
Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on August 17, 2015, 04:35 PM:
I agree with Winbert. Im bored with all this now.
Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 17, 2015, 04:36 PM:
It is responses like this that make me think that maybe Vidar and Robert are right. If you have nothing sensible to contribute then say nothing. Silly, nonsensical and does nothing to further the cause of the forum. I think I must reconsider my membership and join the opposition.
Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on August 17, 2015, 04:36 PM:
Yes I know Mike, my "digits" burn when I type anything other than 8mm,
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 04:37 PM:
Just a bit of light hearted fun Terry after all the serious bad stuff within this post, that's all
Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on August 17, 2015, 04:52 PM:
is that tarmac 8mm thick, or 16mm I just carn't see from here?.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 17, 2015, 04:55 PM:
I'm just glad Mark Todd is happy polishing his steel boxes after starting all this . Can't wait for his next controversial article
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 04:58 PM:
Not sure Paul, but it was definitely a DIGITAL camera that caught me speeding here only a week ago!
Maybe I caused the ripple that put Sir Alex in his place!
Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on August 17, 2015, 04:58 PM:
I don't know about steel boxes mike, we'll need steel toe capped boots, for the next topic !!!!!.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 04:59 PM:
Soon this post will be longer than the infamous Lee Mannering one,
while in the meantime, good ole Mark has got his Duraglit busy at work!
Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on August 17, 2015, 05:02 PM:
pm you Andrew.
is that the stuff with the cotton wool in Andrew, corr blimey mate, I remember it well
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 05:04 PM:
Ditto!
Twas indeed Paul! I doubt I spelt it correctly so someone will no doubt hang me for that also!
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 17, 2015, 05:10 PM:
No doubt when Toddy surfaces he will mention that film I loathe on super 8 that has been mentioned periodically in the archives of this forum for last 10 years.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 05:11 PM:
MMMmmm ... curious Mike, prey tell?
Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on August 17, 2015, 05:12 PM:
Well as oliver would say, " I have nothing to say, you attend to your business, and i'll attend to mine".
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 05:15 PM:
Dirty Work?
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 17, 2015, 05:20 PM:
It is the Voldemort of super 8 you dare not speak its name. If your house was on fire you would rush in get it and send it into the centre of the fire. So far three copies have been sent to me to destroy not a easy job. Even Ian O' Reilly sent me one after it had appeared on his list for 20 years!!
Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on August 17, 2015, 05:26 PM:
Yes Andrew, "somewhere an electric chair is waiting".......
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 17, 2015, 05:34 PM:
"I quiver with fear!"
Gawd I'm missing my screen,another two weeks minimum of solid hard graft before I stand a chance of seeing an 8mm image at 10ft diagonal.
Boy oh boy do I not like painting! Ceilings, skirts, radiators, walls & doors... the list is endless!
Ah well, if ever there was an incentive for a little escapism in these trying times...
Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on August 18, 2015, 12:55 AM:
There is a much faster way to paint the room Andrew
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 18, 2015, 02:46 AM:
Mike
If I am correct is that favourite film of yours the 400" version of "The Rose"...Lol...where's "Toddy" when you need him! Lol
Mark
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on August 18, 2015, 03:10 AM:
You lot really need to get out more
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 18, 2015, 03:59 AM:
I know, sorrowful bunch aren't we Graham.
Kevin, I will give the "Bean" method a go I think, anything to speed things up a little!
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 18, 2015, 04:39 AM:
Mark
I think you will find after our last successful crusade that the particular film in question no longer features on any sales lists of any UK sellers. Two copies exist on ebay but should be added to planned ebay banned item list beside nuclear waste.
3 voluntary dealer terminations have been submitted to me and I am open to further cremations.
Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 18, 2015, 05:42 AM:
Mike - Lol!
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on August 18, 2015, 07:39 AM:
Are you Blind? You must have seen The Rose!
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