This is topic Rule #1? Glad you asked. in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 18, 2017, 03:00 PM:
I contacted a few people yesterday regarding this topic. I now feel it's worth addressing the entire membership.

This Forum chugs along everyday, questions are asked, views are expressed, films are bought, sold & reviewed. Months can go by without an issue. However, there seems to be an uptick in callous remarks here lately, so I'd like to remind all members of the 8mm Forum's first rule.

Personal attacks are not allowed. Period.

For a film forum, there are surprisingly many issues where we disagree with each other. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Arguments will happen. The object is for us to express ourselves and remain civil while doing so. Here's the cliche, but it's true: We can disagree with someone without being disagreeable. I may be in the right about a particular topic, but if I'm rude about it, I'm wrong. There's no need to be dismissive and there is never a reason to make a disagreement personal. It really is a matter of respecting both yourself and your fellow film folk.

Located in the explanatory paragraph for rule #1 is this sentence:
If you are unsure that your post will "read" properly towards another, please consider using "smilies" to assist in expressing your intended tone.
This only works when there is no real harm meant. News flash: Adding graemlins to a sentence whose sole purpose is to denigrate doesn't make it any less nasty.

As moderator, I am herby revoking Forum Rule #18:
Always get the last word in.

Okay, there's no such rule….but a few seem to believe that there is. While discussion & debate are good, this is not a competition. You may have used all the facts at your disposal, endowed your sentences with extra flair and you even get that special feeling that your latest post closely resembles poetry, however there remain those who will just not leave the dark side. Feel free to walk away. There are other lonely topics just waiting for some attention.

I look forward to your replies, however I make two requests. Please avoid naming other members if you feel the need to do so. This is not about one or two people in particular, this is about a trend. My second request? Civility. Thanks.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on March 18, 2017, 03:23 PM:
"We can disagree with someone without being disagreeable"

This sums it up.
Thanks Doug.
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 18, 2017, 04:04 PM:
Very good Doug, however there has been the odd topic in the past, that in my view, has been started with the sole purpose of stirring things up "Sanity Clause" being one.

I understand peoples passion for film collecting and projecting films and I think thats great, but just dont take things to is to short to go down that path.
Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on March 18, 2017, 04:23 PM:
Well I am glad to see this "trend" getting addressed as this is really why I don't bother much with this forum anymore. Kevin's post in the "Speed" thread sums up my feelings on the matter and as much as I'm sure things will quiet down, they (I know, no names) will be back and it will be the same old, same old. [Smile]

I hope it is different.
Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 18, 2017, 05:19 PM:
While your principles are commendable I have a problem with some members promoting themselves on this Forum without the opportunity of disaffected members voicing their opinions concerning a bad experience. I agree that sometimes the exchanges go beyond the bounds of common decency and as a moderator it is your prerogative to intervene,(and a great job of it you do), but let us not have a restrained and too regulated posting system that prevents members from revealing their experiences, whether altogether true or not. We all deserve a freedom of speech and opinion. Accused members have the right of reply and it is up to the collective membership to make a determination. My opinion is that this is the way to uphold the respected values of this Forum. In addition to the invaluable information and advice posted, we also deserve to know about the wrongdoers.
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 19, 2017, 03:31 AM:
The Dog, the Cat and Mouse agree
To live together peacefully
With this Truce we won't tinker
The one that does is a STINKER

"The Truce Hurts". Tom & Jerry cartoon. Released 17 July 1948.
Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on March 19, 2017, 08:22 PM:
Excellent post, Douglas. I'm a member of several local Facebook forums and everybody's polite and there's no aggro apart from one site. Ironically, it's the one for the village where I live where a few just mock legitimate concerns posted. The worst guy was banned but another clever dick's heading the same way. I'm sorry if my recent post about a rusty 16mm projector on eBay broke the rules and so was deleted. It wasn't meant as a plug but just to illustrate the absurd prices being asked over here.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 20, 2017, 01:59 AM:
I'm sorry if my recent post about a rusty 16mm projector on eBay broke the rules and so was deleted. It wasn't meant as a plug but just to illustrate the absurd prices being asked over here.
Will your post was not deleted, it was moved to the correct category, i.e 16mmforum, since previously it was in the 8mmforum. You can still follow your post here:

16mm Projector for Sale on eBay

Don't worry about a crazy listing, in fact we have a sticky post regarding it here:

eBay Oddities (Please post all funny eBay links here!)

So next time I suggest you to post any Ebay funny links there.

Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on March 20, 2017, 08:33 AM:
Thanks for that, Winbert. I hadn't realised that there was a thread for eBay oddities. I like a good laugh.
Posted by Joe Balitzki (Member # 438) on March 20, 2017, 09:36 AM:
Sadly, depending on the subject matter I have seen a increase of bad behavior on some forums where it's become like Kindergarten. Sometimes it becomes necessary for the moderators to step in, but it rears its ugly head again in time. While the Internet is a wealth of information for film collectors it also makes it too easy to misbehave. I find it annoying and tiresome especially when threads are hijacked and I avoid certain topics altogether that are known hotbed issues.
Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on March 20, 2017, 05:25 PM:
well said and spot on! things have been getting unpleasant here recently and it has to be said,often from UK members.
its a great hobby,but only a hobby,there is no need for this vitriol.
Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on March 20, 2017, 06:27 PM:
Yes and not only recently, Ged from Derann said he didn't post here anymore due to similar things happening to him.
Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on March 20, 2017, 07:02 PM:
I know a lot of people like Ged and others who don't bother posting on this forum anymore. I also know people who can't be bothered to go to the many conventions (BFCC included) because of members of this forum who like to be in a clique.

Happy Days!
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 21, 2017, 11:49 AM:
I LOVE that post Maurice! [Smile]

I agree as well, Doug. Sometimes people do need to be called on the carpet, but I would also suggest that, before a person do so, along with the rules you (Doug), have mentioned, make sure that you have you're point factually grounded ... in fact. No gossips, no "well, he said" ect ect.

... and , (I have to admit that I have done this before, once in a long while), give you're situation enuf time to resolve before going "mad" on forums, I mean, even as the situation is in play.

However, there is good thing about venting about problems on a film forum. Sometimes, it's that extra bit of pressure that might just make a buyer/seller of films, that wouldn't automatically do the right thing, do the right thing, because it's out in the open.

Just do it in a civil manner. [Smile]
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 21, 2017, 01:43 PM:
I thought Sanity Clause was a good posting really, i see what you say about not criticising others, fully understand that, but views must be allowed to be expressed as long as the rules are kept. [Wink]
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 21, 2017, 03:05 PM:
Great replies!

Rule #1 allows for posting difficult experiences with other members (buying/selling, etc.). The problem is that the issue can easily get obscured by insults & name calling or can go off topic by others joining in with comments that don't always apply to the case at hand.

If you should find yourself involved in a film/equipment transaction gone bad, post about it by stating the facts. If others can add something that's truly relevant, they should join in. Hopefully a solution will be reached.

Posted by Rob Koeling (Member # 35) on March 21, 2017, 03:30 PM:
The moderator of the silent film boar Nitrateville posted something similar last winter (or the year before). He linked it to the end of winter and people getting a bit grumpy because of a lack of sunlight! I liked that observation.

Patience people, spring has just officially started. Days are getting longer. Time to start thinking of outdoor film parties! Blow the dust of the bbq!

Happy days!

- Rob
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 21, 2017, 03:53 PM:
We should add one thing Doug.

This is a film forum, 8mm to be precise.

Apart from the rule#1 you cannot attack a person, members are also not allowed to insult this hobby, just because (e.g) you quit from the hobby or you are no longer able to fullfill (read: buy) more stuff in this hobby.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on March 21, 2017, 04:34 PM:
I'm puzzled if Ged said factors had caused him to stop posting here. Much as I'd welcome his posts (although I see his very interesting writing on Facebook), a search indicates that he only ever posted two (completely non-controversial) messages here.

I'm just as astonished if there are members here who avoid going to conventions because there's a clique of members attending. As someone who goes to many of the conventions, I've never spotted such a clique, but even if I did, I don't see that it would make any difference to my experience. It's easy to spend too much time chatting at conventions, and too little looking at dealer stalls, so not being in a clique would be an advantage!
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 21, 2017, 04:41 PM:
I think Doug has clearly stated in the first time:

Please avoid naming other members if you feel the need to do so
No matter in a positive or negative way.

Ged has been mentioned although not meant in a negative way, but I can see this will become a way to sound the negativity.

A name should not be named. So I hope Doug can rectify this please.
Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 21, 2017, 05:50 PM:
What utter rubbish! I can think of no other platform that would hesitate to help other readers to avoid a bad experience than by highlighting their own. We are a Forum primarily dedicated to help others in enjoying the pleasure of film and if a seller/ dealer ,albeit a member, transgresses the basic sensibilities that a normal person expects, then we need to know. What are you afraid of? Ooh - we must not upset anyone?
There is a famous quote that that is becoming ever forgotten because of all the ridiculous political correctness that is forced upon us these days - 'Evil thrives when good men do nothing' Speak out and be damned with the consequences.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 21, 2017, 06:17 PM:
Terry, Doug's statement (which I repeated) was meant only to this particular thread. He says

I look forward to your replies, however I make two requests. Please avoid naming other members
This means, please do not naming a name if you want to reply in this thread.

For other bad experience with a seller, Doug says

If you should find yourself involved in a film/equipment transaction gone bad, post about it by stating the facts. If others can add something that's truly relevant, they should join in. Hopefully a solution will be reached.
And I fully agree with it.
Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on March 21, 2017, 06:31 PM:
I'm confused why eBay disputes are brought here. I think it is best to allow eBay to settle those rather than this forum.
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 21, 2017, 10:31 PM:
Sorry Tom will have to disagree regarding the topic "Sanity Clause"

Quote from a certain member [Roll Eyes]

""Yes Sane=Rational/Sound Mind and all that psycho-babble while the West sit back and spends hundreds or thousands of pound or dollars on prints in order to be ENTERTAINED in our own home"".

This person also continued his rant with.."...

Quote.. ""While other starve to death along with their children due to famines or war by the greed of the Western Word"".

End of quotes..

Well if that person was so affected by all this on the forum then he should SELL all his films, instead of threatning to later burm them, and donate all $$$$$ from the sales to a charity....but I bet he wont.

This kind of thing being stated on the forum really does tick me off....hence my view that the aim of that topic was no more than stirring...
Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on March 22, 2017, 02:29 AM:
Obviously I misunderstood your post. My apologies and thank you for clarifying it.
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 22, 2017, 11:56 AM:

Years ago I felt the same way as you about eBay disputes (why bring them here?), however I've come to feel that in our hobby these things do affect many of us. If there are sellers who misrepresent their prints or buyers that win but consistently don't pay, we should be aware of them.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 22, 2017, 01:16 PM:
Joseph ...

The reason why some folks (including myself occasionally, but i must say, thankfully, that i haven't had to do it very often), will mention they're ebay experiences on here...

... is because some folks, who are either buyers or seller of film, will use the annonimity of ebay, (as very few actually use thier "reel names" as they're ebay moniker, for instance, my ebay moniker is "reel-ality", CUZ it sounds cool), to attempt to defraud other ebayers/collectors, but by bringing you're issue on here, you might just "pressure" the naughty seller to do the right thing where, otherwise, the bad seller might not do right by the customer. I wish i had been on the forums back when i first started collecting again, as i was ripped off 300 pounds by a UK collector and if I had been on this forum back then, i might have gotten some justice.

Winbert, i loved you're post. I don't understand why ex collectors will come on the forums and complain about film either, suffering from, perhaps "Cine-envy"? [Smile]
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 22, 2017, 06:16 PM:
Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on March 22, 2017, 07:42 PM:
Doug, Osi,

Good points.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 23, 2017, 05:02 PM:
Not wishing to go off topic, but,
as far as ebay is concerned it should also be remembered that there are good sellers on there, including myself and another forum member, (who i recently purchased Silver dream racer from and its literally new), i do always try and ensure an honest description, unfortunately whats making ebay a lesser place to want to use is the brain deads who are selling but are clearly not at all educated in what they actually have.

Many of us have been a little guilty of a small rant but sometimes i think it can often be read wrong, like a mobile (cellphone) text [Wink]
Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on March 27, 2017, 05:29 AM:
Yep same old same old [Frown]
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 28, 2017, 05:27 PM:
My ' Sanity Clause ' posting was intended to be taken lightly
and with a certain degree of humour and satire.

In fact ' tongue in cheek " really.

Therefore no offence or stirring it up intended.

It must be my wicked Scottish sense of humour being misunderstood.

However it did get some good replies that were worthy of some
reflection on this unique hobby of ours.
Thanks guys.
[Smile] [Smile] [Smile]
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on March 28, 2017, 06:01 PM:
This is us!

“It reminds me of that old joke- you know, a guy walks into a psychiatrist's office and says, hey doc, my brother's crazy! He thinks he's a chicken. Then the doc says, why don't you turn him in? Then the guy says, I would but I need the eggs. I guess that's how I feel about relationships. They're totally crazy, irrational, and absurd, but we keep going through it because we need the eggs.”

Woody Allen
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 28, 2017, 06:23 PM:
Good one Alan.
I heard it before but its still a good one anyway. [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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