8mm Forum: Film Collecting Price Guide.

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Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 17, 2017, 05:33 AM:

I think it may be time for some person or persons to compile
a film collectors price guide for second hand prints with a film
condition grading system and rarity value included.

That way we should at least have some objective price guide in
order to put an end to all this subjective malarkey and Ebay crap.

I think most UK film dealers come close to giving such a realistic objective price guide but I feel we would be better
served if it was to be compiled by someone else.

Now where do I start ? Or are there any volunteers ? Anyone ?
[Wink]

[ April 17, 2017, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: David Hardy ]

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on April 17, 2017, 10:53 AM:

This is a very difficult task - Unlike other collector items, they HAVE a market price and had to start somewhere - Just where do we begin...35mm Scope Trailers, $45 each? What type of film would constitute a price, what is an antique, what is rare, what is common to the general public - Boxed? Price goes up, but to where? Cardboard boxes, plastic, metal - And how do we know what are re-vamped styles, wanting to resemble originals - Take 16mm, Film Classic Dupes are $75, $65 - 16mmDupont Origianls are $195? - When you have open and "live" shows, the dickering and bickering goes on one-on-one, prices are agreed or trade - Film is very existential - Coloring books, on average are $40, Coins, Stamps, Toys, Model Kits - All these and more had someone start with a standard and basic price - If a Super 8mm Keystone print of THE NOISE OF BOMBS that happens to be in a choice box, goes for $25 - How come a similar item at a show will boast only $10 - One would have to start with film catalogs from yore and price accordingly, but again, this will be very divergent for any gauage and format - Don't pay any attention to this post - Shorty

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 17, 2017, 01:30 PM:

Joe thanks for your input to this topic.
Some very interesting points you make there.
Here in the UK we have a Record Collectors Price guide.
Also in the USA there is The Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide.
Here in the UK we have The Comic Book Price Guide on the internet.

Of course prices do vary a bit between UK and USA values but
they are great guides and a good starting point for collectors.
Even if they are not definitive they are a sensible middle way
approach.

I don't see a Film Collectors Price guide as an impossible task.
It could have various contributors valuating the different gauges and genres in general.
That way collectors would not get ripped off by paying to much when buying a print in a certain condition.

Also the same can apply when selling. The book value could be a guide to the seller.

[Smile]

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on April 17, 2017, 01:46 PM:

David

You would need two guides one for film collectors and one for memorabilia buyers/ collectors who I suspect are creating a lot of the mad prices👀

Look at what Dealers are quoting and look at eBay two different universes.

Mike

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 17, 2017, 02:19 PM:

Nice idea, but surely an impossible task, given the huge variation in condition of used 16mm prints in circulation. The whole subject of condition itself, never mind the issue of originals vs dupes vs reductions, is too subjective.
There would need to be a certain amount of agreed categorisation but there are way too many variables for this to be possible.
Maybe it might be a bit easier for Super 8... ??

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on April 17, 2017, 03:20 PM:

As has been shown by the "film destruction posts",and as Michael says,this is just too subjective to give a firm evaluation of a films condition. Ive recently returned one feature that for me,had far too many lines all over the place,but it was sharp,steady and good sound,and I liked the film! But I knew that for me,those lines would spoil it every time I looked at it.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on April 18, 2017, 02:27 AM:

The grading by sellers of gramophone records seems to work very well as it is generally accepted, but the grading is done by the seller.

But films are not gramophone records.

There are too many variables with films. Our known dealers and fellow members do a good service without interference. Buyers are usually pleased and any problem buys are quickly sorted out.

But eBay is a different kettle of fish. With astronomical prices being reached it is probably best left alone by serious film collectors who might get their fingers burnt.

The old expression of "an object is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay" still holds good.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 18, 2017, 05:37 AM:

Thanks for those replies and opinions guys.

However I am not to into this 'subjective' debate.

A print is either good condition or it is not.
Its overall condition can be evaluated objectively by close inspection on a rewind bench and projection.

If a print is scratched and/ or cinched it is damaged.
If a print has shrunk it is damaged.
If a print has torn and stretched perforations it is damaged.
If a print has a lot of splices it is damaged.
If a print is badly buckled and warped it is damaged.
If a print is dirty or oily it is damaged via neglect.
If a print is fading or has faded it has worn out.
If a print has poor picture quality its a bad copy.
If a print has poor sound quality its a bad sound transfer.

All the above can be demonstrated and defined objectively for
all to see and hear. These are all DEFECTS..

Now if all/any of the above is not found to be true then i will
go and burn my Cinema Projectionist Certificate it took me
Three and a half years of my life to qualify for.

[Big Grin]

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on April 18, 2017, 07:06 AM:

It works for used cars so why not for used films, with the co operation of all parties it could work. Some people would only buy a used car from a main dealer, given that the price is higher all the checks would have been done for you, and there are those who will chance there arm at "Joe's used car's lot" at a lower price, with less checks and more hidden agenda's.

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on April 18, 2017, 07:11 AM:

And there is so much variation with cars. Some have paint chips in various places, some have non standard mirrors replaced, internal modifications to engine etc. But there are several price buying guides we all look at before buying a used car, so I dont see why there cant be one for film and projectors. The difference of course is the number of prints available compared to the number of cars made.

Graham

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on April 18, 2017, 07:43 AM:

I think it's more a case of there's the film that's the price and grab it while you can at the moment, not all dealers check the films so that idea is out for me about paying more as it's less of a risk. Stick to the people you can trust or had good dealings with over the years and you won't go far wrong, car dealers want to make maximum profits and being in the motor trade for 32 years I know that not all cars are as described, the grading of films is the same I've found too with certain dealers, Mark

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 18, 2017, 10:25 AM:

I have a great deal of respect and faith for all our remaining dealers here in the UK. Long may they continue to sell.

They all do a great job in describing the print condition and I have always found in the few times they have got it wrong they always allow a return a refund or are willing to reduce the asking price if the film is not as described.

However i still feel a price guide would be a valuable tool as
we head into an uncertain future for this hobby of ours should
all our established and trustworthy dealers disappear from the
market place and others may take their place.

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on April 18, 2017, 10:40 AM:

the thing about the dealers is that they will refund if the print is not as expected. by their own admission they cant view every print all the way through,it would take for ever.
A price guide would only work if everyone stuck to it, I just cant see that happening.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on April 18, 2017, 10:59 AM:

The motor trade is just an example of how it could work, as a guide as David is inferring. There are many parameters to consider, but it could be boiled down to the important one's, as David has already listed, perhaps a compare the cine film dot com is needed.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 18, 2017, 11:04 AM:

A big problem you would run into with this is the variability of markets. Any price you established 6 months before a stock market crash would go out the window a week afterwards.

We sold a house in 2009: we know all about this!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 18, 2017, 11:10 AM:

I honestly believe among the remaining dealers, there is a general pricing structure already in use. Certainly the ones I have experience in using for Super 8mm film there appears to be anyhow.

With Super 8mm, I have seen a slight increase in prices from these guys these past few years, but I feel this only reflects what is happening within the hobby for non faded prints in general as time now passes by since most were readily available.

Even the dealers left now,will take it to an outside market though for special titles they feel will appeal to collectors of all kinds, not only films.

It is mainly only at auction where things can go ridiculous.
Supply and demand heavily influences then though.

Two prints of the Lion King sold last night at auction. Both were very good seemingly but from the two, it was the earlier and slightly cheaper one in the end, that I would have preferred from the two.

By the time there was only one more print left to bid and choose upon, the price went up by around 100 euros.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on April 18, 2017, 11:21 AM:

Surely it comes down to what your prepared to pay, it's supply and demand and a guide won't make any difference to that, it really is an impossible and pointless task due to the many different factors from film to film, if it's a new item then it's got a price tag, but after its been used, scratched, spliced, lost it's box, LPP, Agfa, faded etc etc then i can't see it, Mark

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 18, 2017, 12:10 PM:

OK here's a little exercise.

Put a price on this -
- AGFA 1S print of THE BIRDS; pretty sure it's an original but may be a reduction or an excellent dupe; average 2-3 splices per reel; some light, but visible, lines throughout; lines somewhat heavier at reel ends and beginnings; excellent sound; no vinegar smell at all, but the print takes up a bit loosely on my projector.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on April 18, 2017, 01:22 PM:

What's the problem with prices? If someone wants to pay $200 or $2000 they will.

One man's mint is another's like new.

Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on April 18, 2017, 03:09 PM:

When looking for Super 8 cameras I often consult Super8wiki. It's a valuable resource that provides camera specs and a lot of other nice information.

It also has a used price guideline with a year the price applies to. And the problem is that they're woefully out of date. So even if it were possible to establish guidelines for titles now, in a few short years the prices would be meaningless unless someone is going to be committed to the work of keeping it all updated.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 18, 2017, 04:26 PM:

Michael... I would rate that print as Poor Condition assuming its a Super 8mm feature on say 400 foot spools.
Therefore £ 3.50p per reel as its a damaged print.

Tom ... Yes the guide would have to be updated annually.
Just like Record and Comic book price guides. [Wink]

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 18, 2017, 05:02 PM:

I was thinking 16mm but...ok, let's say Super 8.
Everybody agree with David's rate?

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 18, 2017, 05:17 PM:

Thanks Michael i await other replies regarding this price. [Wink]

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on April 18, 2017, 05:39 PM:

David is doing his best here to ensure we all have a measured and agreed guide to film buying and selling prices. I agree prices sometimes do go OTT especially on Ebay and sometimes by direct sale too (guilty as charged earlier this year for buying poo condition prints at gold standard prices myself).

Unfortunately though to try and cover every possible condition and rarity factor with films will be a cumbersome task both to create and wade through as there are so many more variables especially as we don't even truly know how many prints were out there in the first place.

Many years ago (late 70's / early 80's) I had a large collection of 50's rock n roll records. The rare record price guides (ie: Buygone Records which pre-dated Record Collector Magazine) were just that merely a guide based on the knowledge and collections of other collectors records. They were very good at providing a catalogue of records to look out for, the rarity of such releases and versions available, but even then it was down to the buyer and seller, either face to face or mail order, to agree to a price that suited both parties. So not really any different to now when buying films just with the internet involved now rather than Movie Maker ads or Exchange & Mart back in the day.

The one thing any collectables price guide seems unable to take account of is current desirability. The recent high price trends on some Super 8 features on Ebay are achieved by one or two bidders driving the price up between each other and as long as they can afford it and pay up in the end who really cares?

The best price guides in my opinion are to be found on these very forums hence Doug asks us to leave film and equipment prices visible after the sale for others to refer to later. If the film or equipment sells than the price must be right. If it sits there unsold then the seller obviously needs to rethink their pricing.

Kevin

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 18, 2017, 05:46 PM:

Wise words of wisdom once again Kevin. [Wink]

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 18, 2017, 05:52 PM:

Kevin thanks for your thoughts on this matter.
As you rightly state it would be merely a guide i would like to see.

I agree that this and other forums can give a reasonable idea as
to selling / buying prices but the problem for me is that it is on the internet and not everyone is a member of a forum.

I would like to see a paperback book guide published just like our Record Collector guide.
There are many collectors out there who may not be on the internet or don't even own a computer.

Yes there are many variables to take into account but this could
easily be dealt with i am sure. [Smile]

Posted by Jason Smith (Member # 5055) on April 18, 2017, 09:12 PM:

This forum has provided a valuable resource for newbies such as myself. Being able to search the buy/sell threads for equipment and films gives me a great idea of what specific films have sold for in the past.

I think a database showing the previous sale prices of specific films on this forum as well as eBay would be great. The database could also include a description on the film given given by the seller.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on April 18, 2017, 11:30 PM:

People will pay what they want for a print- I don't see a problem with that. Ebay is a free market and as such the prices are determined by what the buyers will pay.
I remember the print of "The Terminator 2" that was stated as being damaged and in less than optimum condition. It still sold for a healthy amount. If you would of told the buyers that they were paying too much for a print like that in that condition it wouldn't have mattered a bit. They would still have bid and paid what they did as was evidenced by the outcome.
3.50 for a 400ft reel of "The Birds" if it was from a feature? Maybe in 1979. But now?
More like $30 a reel. And if it was the full feature the price could be very high.
With the demise of Derann all really nice quality prints have skyrocketed. That is the reality of the Super 8 hobby. It makes sense-there are no more prints to be made. What we have is what we have.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 19, 2017, 03:35 AM:

Alan thanks for your thoughts.
Yes I know some people will pay what they want regardless.

However $30 for what i regard as a damaged reel of film is simply
ludicrous.
I doubt if any one with any common sense here in the UK would pay that amount. Maybe £5.00 - £10.00 tops.
I could be wrong though.

Yes prices for good used prints are rocketing now.
All the more reason for some kind of price guide i think before
people waste their money and end up with a pile of worthless junk
in their collections. [Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 19, 2017, 03:45 AM:

I suspect anyone parting with the large sums in discussion here, knows exactly what they are getting for their money David.

These buyers as Alan quite correctly points out, simply do not see it that they are wasting their money.

Believe me David, I purchase many films nowadays from many different sources and one thing I've noticed is,..if you come across as simply being completely unrealistic in your demands as a buyer, sellers in this era can, and will, simply just ignore you.

They have others in waiting who will not be quite so fussy and who equally are more than happy to knowingly spend big on what is admitted to as being,far less than perfect goods in many cases.

They will tell you they can well do without the hassles associated with completely unrealistic buyer's at this late stage of the game. The hassle of having goods returned and all.

It's as Alan says above now, with time moving along now and no more of these prints ever to be made again, the seller has the greater power in many sales now for the more sought after items.

We either accept these facts or simply move on in life to some other medium or hobby which gives greater reliability of end result and perhaps greater satisfaction all around for many.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 19, 2017, 04:10 AM:

Andrew i fully agree with what you and Alan are saying here.
The scammers are moving in no doubt about that.
Yes some people are extremely gullible at times.

However we did have some dodgy dealers in the past when this hobby was in its "golden years".
They were found out and lost sales and went out of business.

I just feel some kind of printed price guide would help newbies
from getting ripped off by these scammers.

If it gets to the stage where these scammers are to become the
norm when buying prints then i for one am out of this hobby after
about continuous 50 years film collecting.

I am sure others will follow me in that decision.
I am thankful we still have dealers such as Barry , Phil , Ian,David and Paul here in the UK for the time being.
I think when they go i may too.
[Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 19, 2017, 04:19 AM:

I also have enjoyed many fine films from the dealers you mention there David, but equally there are many decent individual sellers among our community that WILL describe their goods in even greater detail than perhaps our dealers will at times. Also of late, I have received quite a few titles from the kind of people I mention above, who have offered me goods at what I'd say is even below dealer prices at this present time and certainly far less than they could have got for their goods by offering them at auction.

There are plenty of decent individual collectors out there that I consider I now know and trust well enough to fully accept anything they describe to me without any subsequent hassles or returns.

If every dealer packed up tomorrow (heaven forbid), it certainly wouldn't signal the end of an era for myself I have to say.

For any newcomers to our hobby, I'd be more than happy to pass on the information I have of who I have dealt with over the years and who I have learned to trust implicitly.

I don't see too many active newcomers getting into this hobby nowadays though, if I'm honest.

[ April 19, 2017, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 19, 2017, 08:07 AM:

Can i take from the responses so far on this forum that there is no appetite for a 'Film Collectors Price Guide' in book form ?
[Wink]

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on April 19, 2017, 11:00 AM:

Yeah I'm interested in a copy....when are you starting the project David?

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on April 19, 2017, 12:26 PM:

So, just carrying on with my example - what would THE BIRDS go in the guide at? We've already had 2 widely differing valuations of £3.50 and $30 per reel.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on April 19, 2017, 12:56 PM:

Comic books - There you have a definite grading system and standard prices - Recordings and Toys about the same - With Motion Pictures, it is not impossible, yet very touchy for some - As regards 8mm, the same argument can be made for 16mm in an original box - You have two collectibles in one, both emphrema and the celluloid - By itself the film is negotiable - Case; L&H 16mm HOG WILD (Blackhawk) nice and clean - $75 - Too much? Let's consult the price guide - Why, there isn't one, well, we'll add that in and make it $60 - Trouble is, the original dealer will try for that original price - EBAY has curtailed any film-price guide - As been mentioned, we can work things out amongst ourselves without resorting to a guide - You know, if there was one, some may take it much to heart and remain strict - I would like to see one though, then it would be quite a tome whatwith 62mm, 9.5, 17.5, silent versions of "talkies", the many obscure cartoons, the outfits of long ago and how to discern an average price - Oh, it's a worthy task - If I were to start, I say all Blackhawk sound 400' 2-reelers from the Roach library are $30, with the exception of the longer shorts and the rarer editions - Again, quite a task, but one I herald further discussion over - We'll talk of it at Wildwood next week, wish some of you chaps can come over and haggle a bit - Cheers, Shorty

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 19, 2017, 02:51 PM:

Oh well maybe its a bad idea after all ! [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on April 19, 2017, 03:34 PM:

I think it's actually a good idea. If done right it would be a great resource.

Unfortunately it's the kind of thing that would need to be kept up to date to stay useful.

Another problem is if you stuck to an average of current sales prices to get your number, one Star Wars print selling for 3,000 bucks in some whacky sale would skew that title's price high since there aren't a lot of prints being sold to pull the average closer to what it should really be. If the guidebook became the gold standard for what prints sell for, everybody would wind up spending more because this happened.

After that it comes down to whoever created the list making judgments what the prices really are.

-at the end of the day, just someone's opinion. (Personally, I'd want whoever it was to really hate the films I want!)

It also pays to remember that the easiest source of data for something like this would be Ebay. If what people say about the sales prices on there being crazy is true, do we really want that to be the standard driving the market?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 19, 2017, 03:50 PM:

As Steve points out regarding the legitimacy of the guide, things would change on an almost month to month basis these days.

Last weeks price for Gentlemen Prefer Blondes - $400
This weeks price..$2000!

Last weeks price for Cocoon - $300
This weeks price ... $ 1750!

How could a book ever be written without it becoming out of date and inaccurate inside a month now and who decides what the "normal" price of these are in 2017/18?

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on April 19, 2017, 04:38 PM:

You either do it my reel size from 200ft to full feature or you do it by title or genre.

Sciencefiction , Hammer horror, James Bond , Star Wars & Star Trek etc at a premium with proberably musicals, westerns and dramas being priced lower.

You could get an average price for a title by collating the prices specific titles are sold at by collectors or eBay.

You could always ask Ian or Barry as they actually sell them all the time. In case of Ian he hasn't put his prices up from 1981 😫😫(only kidding) Least he stopped using those bloody labels that don't come off📽📽📽

Anyway David you have a BIG task ahead of you. Hope you have a double bowl of Quaker Oats tomorrow with sugar. I expect pie charts and analysis data projecting current and future prices from you. Glad you have your retirement task organised 😜😜😜😜

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on April 19, 2017, 05:05 PM:

Its a "GUIDE" as to what you might pay, could be higher or lower based on other criteria and your bargaining powers, and these items in this case would be almost all be second hand and used. Common sense should prevail, but I know this is difficult when your buying something you want, I just don't think it would harm price's in the market, its not the law written in granite.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on April 19, 2017, 06:20 PM:

Maybe it should be something like the old Derann S/H rating A - Very Good, B - Good Average, c -Fair, D - Poor, to indicate how much less (percentage wise) a print should be from the price of a perfect copy.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 19, 2017, 06:33 PM:

I loved the old grading and subsequent pricing structure implemented by Derann Brian, but the problem now is the fact that more or less all of these commonly seen used prints that regularly used to feature on the Derann lists of old, are seldom seen now.
It's very very saddening for all involved but a stark reality already nevertheless.

Many must have already hit the scrap yard even those from the later days judging by what we see in circulation.

I've actively pursued every title I have ever desired from way back when, and still there are some I never ever see, and these are some of the very latest commercial cine films ever released!

They have either gone to the great film graveyard in the sky or they are very much still loved and treasured.

I do hope it is the latter!

[ April 20, 2017, 04:45 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 20, 2017, 03:24 AM:

Brian I have already drafted out a film condition grading system along similar lines as Derann's one.

However it uses a much stricter definition criteria than theirs.
The reason for this in order to give a fairer realistic analysis
of a print's true condition.

I always felt that Derann's gradings were a bit frugal at times.

For example my grading system does not rate a print with a scratch in it as... (A) :Very Good or (B) :Good.

There would be a complete and detailed table giving a description
for each of the grade categories. That takes all variables into account.

[Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 20, 2017, 03:42 AM:

Barry uses a grading system as you know David. I once asked him why no print I was ever interested in from reading through his lists, ever had "A" or even "A-" at the side of them.

He said it was because he felt it was fairer to grade nearly all used films as "B+" at best, as they are all used and many have some signs of being used.

There probably are very few actual "A" prints left if a print has been regularly used throughout its lifetime so far, but then to my way of thinking, any grading system relevant to this present day, should in my opinion, be able to start at A and finish at D or E based on what is currently available and the various degrees of wear to what is left in the market.

As I recall, Derann didn't tend to give out an A to prints with emulsion scratches, certainly none I ever bought anyhow, but they would put A- to something with an odd scratch or two if all else was really nice.

I have bought and seen lab defective prints off their lists though with an A against them even though they told you on the list what the minor fault was.
Odd reels used to surface often. These, rightly so, were always labelled up as A prints as they were brand new, but still just an odd part from a feature and were generally offered at half the normal selling price.
There were many good bargains to be had off the Derann used lists, and not all of them were actually "used". [Wink]

So overall, I'd say any present day grading system in this era, would have to display a greater tolerance towards minor flaws and defects than back then.
Otherwise you simply finish up with a whole list of C, D or E prints that no one would risk buying.
I think we all have to be extremely realistic in what we can likely find now compared to the days they were still frequently being made brand new.

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on April 20, 2017, 05:28 AM:

Andrew my grading system will indeed be using a letter system but to a much tighter criteria than has been used by the dealers.
Barry would inform you that I very rarely buy a print from him unless it is at least B+ or higher.
No matter what the title is or how rare it is today.

I was always surprised with Derann's grading taking into consideration that Derek was at one time a professional cinema
projectionist like myself.

He would have probably given a different report than myself when
making out a 35mm film condition report at a cinema.

As i have mentioned my grading system would not grant an A or B to a print that has an emulsion or base scratch on it.

[Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 20, 2017, 05:39 AM:

I think Derek was probably just thinking to himself, I need to actually sell some of these films. [Big Grin]

As I say, I got one or two used features back then labelled as A- prints yet did contain minor emulsion scratches.
I was happy enough with them and that was over 25 years ago now, when these prints were less than a few years old. [Wink]

There are only a very select few feature length prints I have purchased this time around without even a trace of any noticeable wear on them.
Recently, I haven't found any that would make your A grade David.

I suspect very few people in this hobby actually buy feature length prints at the price they were new to then only view them all once or twice.
I know we see these words written in sales spiel often,even to this day,..but from what I've seen, this is either a gross exaggeration or they are using some awful machines otherwise.

It's actually a fairly difficult thing to achieve, to be able to run an hour and half worth of film in one session regularly, without some kind of minor infliction occurring to the film, certainly it is unless your machines are all kept in tip top precise working condition without any wear to themselves.
That rules many machines out sadly David.

I think if it is these levels of flawless perfection that people strive to repeatedly achieve who are interested in film still, then the only realistic option to grant them complete satisfaction, would be some form of digital projection.
Even then, often we can find irritating traits in the presentation offered if we are overly picky

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on April 20, 2017, 10:13 AM:

When OVERSTREET began, did they have the same trouble? Though there was no EBAY back then - Comics were bickered over price-wise - Same with old toys - Much more ferocity with film, but I'm eager to help if a guide of sorts is commenced - Shorty

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on April 20, 2017, 10:35 AM:

I think the idea of such a guide is good,but unless everyone uses it and more importantly interprets it the same,then we are back to square one.

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2