8mm Forum: Why Doesn't The Picture Fill The Screen?

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Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on July 24, 2017, 12:35 PM:

I have just got home from Dunkirk. Not literally,of course, but a presentation of what I can now call a magnificent film.

One major gripe, but nothing to do with the film itself.

The film was projected in the same ratio as the shape of the screen.No problem,you would think. BUT..... they insisted on projecting it as a smaller image therefore not only leaving a huge gap on either side of the screen, but also above and below,too. Why,oh why do they let this happen? Has it got anything to do with screen size limits of 4K before image deterioration starts, or is it just laziness?
I would be curious to know.

.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on July 24, 2017, 02:06 PM:

I have seen a article about it varying in aspect ratio. One major problem I find the last time I went to the videma was a total lack of professionalism.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 24, 2017, 02:53 PM:

Professionalism and presentation are not words in modern cinema technology.

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on July 24, 2017, 04:17 PM:

Melvin, Where did you see it? Was it film or digital? The last time I saw anything like that was at a Cinema in Laughlin, U.S.A. All three of us were watching 'The Ring'. We never saw the censors certificate and the picture started on the tiled ceiling!!! They finally got it on the screen when a lady with a bamboo cane appeared to pull curtains to cover the blank screen either side. No-one ever believes me but it actually happened.

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on July 24, 2017, 05:12 PM:

Dave - It was at my local Vue cinema and was digital.

David - What an appropriate word. "Videma." Yes, that's what it is nowadays.My "man cave" is probably more of a cinema than the local "cinema." At least I am using real film even though I can only fit two or three comfortable Ikea reclining chairs in it! AND I make the picture fill the whole screen!..... even though it is only academy ratio most of the time!

Posted by Patrick Walsh (Member # 637) on July 25, 2017, 12:40 AM:

the 2.2:1 image has been put inside the flat 1.85:1 container so when projected none of the image area is cropped off, most theatres screens would end up having black space on either side of the screen as well as the bottom, I am screening it at my theatre and even though I have zoomed the image out to fill the screen the best I could there is still black space around the image area.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on July 25, 2017, 05:03 PM:

Yes, either this is a lack of knowledge of setting up to run the DCP, a lack of concern, or lack of ability to make the equipment fill the width.

Which is why directors should think twice about doing weird ratios for digital projection.

The reverse is possible. I saw one of our last local screens running Jurassic World (odd 2:1 ratio) from 35mm. It was an old cinema with a common height screen (so far so good). But it was released on 35mm as cropped "flat." So this cinema could only fill half its screen! Had it been released as scope with black on either side, or more sensibly, straight scope, then of course the whole screen would've been filled.

However, many digital cinemas are now "common width" so that scope is letterboxed and small, PLUS they use no masking or curtains. I can do that badly at home, thank you, that's just awful!

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on July 25, 2017, 09:48 PM:

Lack of caring.

In February I went to see THE FOUNDER which was in scope. It shared the screen with another movie that was flat. As a result, the movie I went to see played letterboxed within a 1.85 frame.

Having been scope, it didn't fill the screen until 2 months later when I ran the Blu-Ray at home.

So sad.

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on August 11, 2017, 10:33 AM:

Hi everyone. Apologies for the late response to this posting. I have been having a very hectic time of recent weeks, including the birth of 2 new grandchildren in the past month involving making 2 more "memory boxes" and family movies to put in them and copies for other family members. There have also been holiday "sleep overs" with trips to the beach to bury me in the sand, and film shows in Grandads cinema. Regarding presentation of films in different aspect ratios, I have always found the presentation in the multiplexes appalling, None of the screens appear to have any masking, or if they have, are not used. However, this is not the case in the little independent "Kavenagh" in Herne Bay. It has 2 screens and the masking is always used and in one screen, behind closed curtains. With the other screen the curtains were removed but the whole screen edges are lit with blue coloured lights so there is never a blank white wall between films. They also now produce their own daysets for trailers and local adverts. Just like the "good old days"!. Ken Finch.

Posted by Ricky Daniels (Member # 95) on August 12, 2017, 09:23 AM:

Believe me I think there are way too many aspect ratio options available in digital cinema these days and quite often films are not presented correctly due to the limited technical ability of present-day cinema technical staff. Digital presentation has dumbed down cinema technical staff, the majority of who are completely out of her depth... but, or more importantly, cheap to employ!

Deluxe produced a technical paper for the presentation of Dunkirk and no doubt it flew across the heads of many cinema techs!

http://digitalcinema.bydeluxe.com/site/dlxportal/docs/projectionistletter_dunkirk_usa_20170721_170358.pdf

http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/dunkirk-imax-theater-comparison/

There are far too many aspect ratio options available to Directors today and I believe many of them adopt non-standard ARs just for the kudos.

Let's be honest, film presentations were not always spot on back in the day, particularly in the later decades, and projectionists back then only had a mere handful of aspect ratios to deal with! So, what chance has a modern 'projectionist' 'button pusher' got of getting the presentation right... and they don't have to change backing plates, lenses, etc!

What a mess modern cinema has become.

Best,
Rick

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on August 17, 2017, 02:42 PM:

You are dead right there Rick. Amateur movie making is even more of a mess. It seems that there is no standard frame size or format these days. Cameras and recording systems are obsolete as soon as you leave the shop!! No consistency or backwards compatibility. Trying to make a video from shots taken from different cameras, tablets, mobile phones etc. is a complete nightmare. It is rather like trying to make a film from footage from different cine film gauges and colour stocks. Ken Finch.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on August 18, 2017, 03:41 PM:

Yes, I was at a Widex where they were screening winners of their widescreen amateur film competition. One had obviously been made with the one-off design Cinemascope lens for 8mm which has a 1.75:1 compression ratio to give 2.35:1 on-screen from the 4x3 frame. They tried projecting with both their standard anamorphics (2:1 and 1.5:1 compression) and it looked wrong with both.

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