8mm Forum: Cutting film for “art” projects

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Posted by Brian Sarnowski (Member # 6252) on June 26, 2018, 01:44 AM:

Hello everyone, anyone. I have a question to ask.

I recently came across a man in Canada who is cutting up films and turning it into “art”. I personally do not appreciate or agree with what he is doing to these films but as a newcomer to the forum and this hobby I wanted to get more opinions on the subject.

I could go on about why I feel the way I feel, but I wanted to open it up to the forum and hear other opinions first before I elaborated.

Thanks for listening,
Brian Sarnowski

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on June 26, 2018, 03:21 AM:

I don't agree with it either Brian, or turning projectors into table lamps.

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on June 26, 2018, 12:04 PM:

Hello Brian,

Do you have any pictures concerning typical items ?

It should be interesting to post them here.

Is it something around 35mm cuts (or 70mm as well) ?

Posted by Brian Sarnowski (Member # 6252) on June 26, 2018, 12:38 PM:

His seller name on etsy is MiniCinemaShop if anyone wants to check out better images. From what I can tell its mostly 16mm.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on June 26, 2018, 05:02 PM:

What a waste. The colour on many of those strips looks good.

Posted by Brian Sarnowski (Member # 6252) on June 26, 2018, 06:04 PM:

I know, about two weeks ago I sold him a set of titles from the Monkees TV show that are LPP. Because he lives in Canada, and eBay won’t combine shipping for the global shipping program, he asked me a couple days ago if I would sell him a few more with direct shipping. Now that I know what he most likely plans to do with them, I don’t want to sell him anything else.

Obviously it’s his right to do whatever he wants with his property but Its also my right not to sell things to him. That’s why I wanted to get a few more perspectives on the matter. Money is money, and bills need to be paid, but I actually get a pit in my stomach when I look at these. Plus I recently just inherited all of these films from my late father, and he hated even throwing away 4ft of film that was warped with VS, so I know he wouldn’t have approve of treating films this way.

Thanks for the feedback and i’d Love to hear anymore opinions that are out there.
Brian Sarnowski

Posted by Jason Smith (Member # 5055) on June 26, 2018, 07:43 PM:

After visiting his store, I think the light boxes he is selling looks cool but I can`t condone him using any prints that have good color.

I think most people on here would agree that they would prefer to see their film projected on to the wall instead of attached to the wall.

One 16mm film collage the person has for sell on there Etsy store is "16mm The Beatles 1964 Tv Show Outtakes #2 collage". I am sure he outbidded a few 16mm film collectors to get that film if he got it on eBay.

It looks like there is about 27 seconds worth of frames in the print. He is selling his light box for around $400. At that price he is selling it, he could outbid just about any film collector in an auction for a print.

[ June 27, 2018, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: Jason Smith ]

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on June 27, 2018, 03:28 AM:

I had a similar incident several years ago; I advertised a 400ft 16mm film, the print was about 60 years old. The interested party was asking questions about the size of the spool. It seemed they were more interested in that. I wrote to him asking if he owned a projector, and he said he had no interest in the film; he would throw that away, and turn the spool into a decorative wall clock, when he would then sell. He was also turning 9,5mm projectors into table lamps. He was throwing the internal works away so they couldn't be restored to their previous condition. I refused to sell him anything.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on June 27, 2018, 11:13 AM:

I wouldn't give $5.00 for that light box!

Posted by David Baker (Member # 3259) on June 27, 2018, 02:02 PM:

It even goes beyond a light box......

www.ebay.com/itm/STAR-WARS-JEDI-Rare-Lot-100-Film-Cells-Compliments-DVD-poster-book-movie-/331710795684?hash=item4d3b810fa4

This eBayer buys 35mm trailers and cuts them to pieces to make LOADS of money for single frames .

Oh and they make " book markers " too . [Mad]

Posted by Steven Haines (Member # 6159) on June 27, 2018, 03:46 PM:

This concept of selling individual frames from films reminds me of this listing for the T2: The Ride 70mm film that I recently came across. The seller seems to suggest that the $30,000 asking price is quite the bargain when you add-up all the frames: "The Back to the Future ride at Universal also used a 70mm film to produce the visual effects during the ride. There is a pair of BTTF 70mm frame cells (TWO CELLS/FRAMES) for sale (online) which is commanding $149.00 for just TWO CELLS as there were only a handful created."

I came to film through an interest in preservation, so "first do no harm" is always in mind when handling films. With that being said, I also consider myself an artist, so, if a particular material speaks to someone, then I support responsibly indulging those whims. But there's a smart way to do it with film. For instance, I will confess to trashing 16mm film stock as raw material for sculptural creations, though said film was too-far-gone with vinegar syndrome to be of much other use.

Moreover, I think this same dilemma applies for anyone working with film for found footage collages. There's always the tricky debate of damaging the film by splicing it up, or keeping it fully intact. But perhaps the full film does not meet with the artist's vision. Perhaps only a single shot or scene is appropriate. I certainly struggle with this when assembling some of my more hodgepodge-style screenings. I’ve got plenty of films in my collection that are probably one of a kind or the best quality versions in existence, or that are camera originals (and definitely unique.) Those ones will never meet an unnecessary splicer blade while in my care. And then I’ve got other films that are common and that are compromised in terms of condition. With such cases, the shackles of my preservationist mindset are more likely to be undone.

Personally, seeing the films cut up for some of the pieces in the MiniCinemaShop does make me reflexively wince. But I guess what it comes down to is a matter of before and after value. Not monetary value but value in terms of enjoyment and interest. Has the artist somehow transformed the original material in a positive way to make it more interesting? I think the purpose of the films has been fundamentally changed, since they are no longer useful as cinema (for being projected to an audience.) Now they are materials intended to be peeped by individual viewers. Some might call that tragic, I suppose. But now the films are freed from the constraints of the apparatus (the projector.) So I’m not sure what to think of the MiniCinemaShop lightboxes. I’m skeptical, and I feel like perhaps films could be chosen a bit more wisely, but who am I to judge?

Posted by Brian Sarnowski (Member # 6252) on June 27, 2018, 07:46 PM:

Part of the reason I came here with this is because there will never be a right answer everyone agrees to, so I thank everyone for chiming in.

There are people out there who probably cringe that eight track tapes are being tossed in the dumpster. We all can make exceptions for the things we are passionate about and I understand when you say these items are now “freed from the constrains of a projector”, however I don’t agree with it. Most of the items are of a musical variety. The soundtrack, along with these images, laying dormant for the rest of eternity is just as upsetting to me. I can listen to any Beatles song on Spotify but it will never be the same as taking a vinyl album from my dad’s collection and playing it. The same way you can go to the bookstore and find a hardcover collection of every early Marvel comic but I’ll never be the same as having an actual Spiderman number one.

But you’re right, if this gentleman was doing nothing but taking film I have no interest in, or that has zero value to even the beginning collector, perhaps I never would’ve brought the subject up. Loved ones are inheriting collections all the time that they have no idea what to do with. I love that there is a site like eBay that people can say I have no idea what this is..... is it worth anything to anyone? But, are these items being saved from a dumpster and hung on the wall, no. They’re being purchased and knowingly destroyed and I think that’s my biggest issue.

Just picture two people wanting this film, one a man with a projector and another with scissors. It’s almost laughable the comparison you can make to King Solomon.

Brian Sarnowski

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