8mm Forum: The Isco Göttingen scope lens!

This is topic The Isco Göttingen scope lens! in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=005123

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 20, 2019, 12:34 PM:

This is a excellent scope lens! That I use. I had this lens since 1978. I got it from American wide-screen center in Pittsburgh, pa. It fits my GS1200 barrel just right! Just take out your lens and put this scope lens.right in! A great 2× lens. This great and rare lens is made in Germany. It projects the image with a 2:36:1 aspect ratio. More light and excellent sharpness! If your in to scope movies than this great lens is for you! Be on the hunt!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 21, 2019, 11:17 AM:

Leon ...

Is this an actual super 8 scope lense, or a 16MM. Just curious.

I only knew specifically of the quite common "KOWA" lense, but I don't necessarily keep up on everything all that well.

I personlly use a german "Mollier" 35MM anamorphic lense (great for making super 8 scope films as well!). Quite large and "cumbersome", but i made a bracket for it for my Chinon 9500 that works very well for it. [Smile]

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 21, 2019, 11:42 AM:

OSI, yes it is a super 8 scope lens! And it works a lot better! More light and sharpness to!

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on February 21, 2019, 12:00 PM:

Super 8 scope will always be 2.66 ratio as cropping is required. Original master material 35mm prints are a taller frame.

Only when the mastering has been done differently - whereas the top and bottom "sides" are letter boxed vertically - will it be more between 2.35 to 2.40. One example of this is the Kempski print of 2001, A Space Odessy.

Leon is correct by saying the 35mm scope lenses are the best ones to use. As long as the rear optics correctly line up with the Elmo zoom lens results can be really good.

Watch out when zooming out to make the picture bigger. You can only go so far - there is a limit - once you have gone too far the corners of the aperture will hit the inside barrel of the scope lens. The result of this would be shadowing or vignetting at the corners of the image. Imagine being "outside the inside of the optics."

If your throw distance is 26 feet you will get a superb scope image 4 feet tall and more than 10 feet wide with the zoom lens set to the SMALLEST setting (using a typical super 8 zoom lens with any Elmo projector).

Most brands of 35mm scope lenses will work for this. Just make certain to select a lens that is not fixed setting. The proper lens will have a focus ring on the front that can be set to match the flat focus of super 8. When done correctly - as you change lenses there will be NO focus adjustment required.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 21, 2019, 12:04 PM:

If this is the lens referred to, then it is a high quality anamorphic originally designed for 35mm projection.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ISCO-GOTTINGEN-ANAMORPHIC-LENS-2X-MODEL-KA298-/163143753674

[ February 21, 2019, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Maurice Leakey ]

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on February 21, 2019, 12:06 PM:

Yes, that is a perfect lens to add to a super 8 machine.

Build a cradle - or in these photos below what I call a "V" box - to support the lens. It's a biggie. The front to back length of this scope lens is the same as the front of the zoom lens to the rear of the lamp house on the ST 1200!

Slide it in or out to switch between flat or scope. Works like a charm after some configuration and basic set up.

results here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SozepDnuSSw&feature=youtu.be

soft focus in the video caused by cell phone camera. I wish to be clear on this: After brief setup and configurations these lenses focus nice and sharp!

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 21, 2019, 12:11 PM:

This is one of the best scope lens I ever used! And I tryed a lot of them through the years! I'll stick with Isco!

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on February 21, 2019, 12:23 PM:

Leon can you post some pictures of this lens straight in to the GS lens barrel? I am interested to see the adapter system.

These lenses are very heavy. A basic zoom lens would never support the exterior weight. Even though you did say take the zoom lens right out. I think we'd all like to see pictures of what you've done, please!

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 22, 2019, 03:01 AM:

In my early 35mm cinema days our projectors had separate lenses for a backing lens and a further separate one for the anamorphic. A further backing lens was used for widescreen.
However, in later years, I was using the latest Cinemeccanica Victoria 5 projectors in a multiplex. These used the Isco anamorphic lenses which already had their backing lens screwed into them. The two sets of lenses were on a turret.
See my link to a picture.
https://en.todocoleccion.net/antiques-technical/proyector-maquina-cine-35mm-cinemeccanica-victoria-5~x59187010

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 22, 2019, 12:19 PM:

This Isco scope lens was design for super 8! It fits in to my Elmo lens holder! Nice!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 22, 2019, 12:28 PM:

I bought this scope lens when they for sale as a scope starter kit and came complete with an excellent freestanding base kit.
We use a custom made bracket which i bought from Paul Foster years and years ago and it works perfectly so this stand has lived in its original box ever since.
It is an excellent lens. The last image shows the custom bracket we use. We also have the same sort of custom bracket we used for the bigger Sankor 16C scope lens which fits to the front of our 1200HD's.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 22, 2019, 12:34 PM:

I remember that lens Tom being advertised a lot in Movie Maker. I never owned one but the advertising of the box always caught my eye. [Cool]

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 22, 2019, 12:43 PM:

It looks good Tom!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 22, 2019, 12:48 PM:

Graham, why do you think ive kept the box [Big Grin]

Leon, it certainly has been looked after, as you can see this is one clean and clear lens. [Wink]

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 22, 2019, 01:01 PM:

Tom, I can see you take good care of your film items! Again looks good! Enjoy! Leon.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 23, 2019, 08:17 PM:

I have the same Isco 2X lens that Tom has. Seems to be a pretty good lens, I use it on my GS1200 using the adapter bracket that Tom shows. I had a special scope lens adapter made for my Eumig S938. I like scope films, but I really do not like the extreme 2.66 aspect ratio of super 8 scope films - a lot of heads get chopped off in the process! [Big Grin]

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 23, 2019, 09:25 PM:

Film Making....April 1980 [Smile]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 24, 2019, 03:44 AM:

Thats a good old book there.
Paul, i agree 100%, i also enjoy the scope films but heads are often cropped as they would have to be to get that ratio. Never the less, we enjoy the ones we have very much, we dont have an over abundance of them. Also, i found earlier releases to be a little too soft.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on February 24, 2019, 03:51 AM:

I remember the Movie Maker magazine review of "Gold", the film with Roger Moore it stated that not only was it cropped top and bottom for 2.66:1 but had the most "over-scanning" at the lab the reviewer had seen and that in one scene it was more than the top of heads that were cut off.
Mind you I would love to have seen a 2.66:1 of Ben Hur taken from the 70mm 1.25x compressed 2.7:1 original.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 24, 2019, 04:27 AM:

The cinevision prints were ok, quality was not always as good as one would like but they were OK.
The 3 x 400ft version of Ben Hur looked very good, colours were always a bit washed out but definatly an improvement over the traditional scope. Then of course in later years, Deranns full scope features produced very good image and colour which sort of helped accept the slight cropping.
On 16mm we only have a few scope prints, Waterloo, Kidnapped and soon Zulu Dawn, with this gauge i havnt noticed any cropping yet, also the quality of this bigger guage is equally as sharp as the standard 4:3 ratio.But equally on 16mm we are more than happy with 4:3 (or letter-boxed), version of scope films as the one title we have, Dances with Wolves, that you would expect to be pan and scanned actually hasn't got any at all and it works beautifully and the image is so good scope isn't even a requirement for us. Obviously it's a bonus if you get it but certainly isn't a must have.
As for the isco 2x lens, it's i little too small for 16 so we use the larger Sankor 16C and ours,( i am told), has the larger more rare rear barrel size. When i bought the scope holder for the eiki it had to go back to be changed for the larger barrel size. It's a lens & we picked for a very low price around 50 years ago. It was full of mould and was taken to a photographic shop for a full clean out.

[ February 24, 2019, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Tom Photiou ]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 24, 2019, 06:11 AM:

In their day, the Widescreen Centre was a haven for cine enthusiasts. Unfortunately, that's all stopped now as they only seem to deal with telescopes and items for astronomy.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 24, 2019, 12:53 PM:

I have notice that on some scope prints that are slightly soft! And how things would be cropped! But that's the same as flat prints! Some are on the soft side! But I just love the look of scope movies!

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 24, 2019, 07:09 PM:

You mean like this... [Big Grin]

https://youtu.be/sbGOMk52j_Q

Or this [Cool]

https://youtu.be/rXCnAz1Jsm4

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 25, 2019, 01:33 AM:

Some very good examples Graham. With Westside story derann released two extracts. A 400ft and the one you show here on a 200ft reel. The 400ft extract,while good, is quite soft in focus compared to the much better 200 version.
By the way that is some scope lens you swing up there. [Wink]

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 25, 2019, 12:41 PM:

Thanks Tom the "West Side Story" extract shown is from the Kempski feature.

This is one I should have bought at the time of its release.. [Cool]

Kempski/scope features got the ratio right for the Super8 frame.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 25, 2019, 12:54 PM:

Even better than the Derrans one there Graham.
Yes agree, 2010 is a film i didn't watch due to how boring the original was. Looks like i was wrong to judge. [Embarrassed]

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on February 25, 2019, 02:00 PM:

It looks good Graham! Nice set up! Leon.

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2