8mm Forum: UPDATED Vinegar smell on 9.5mm films?

This is topic UPDATED Vinegar smell on 9.5mm films? in forum 9.5mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on March 13, 2015, 03:25 AM:

Hi, I have 3 x 9.5mm 800ft films that I have noticed that they smell - like a vinegar smell, I guess this is the smell of the "vinegar syndrome" I've read about - so far none of my 8mm or 16mm have it - touch wood [Smile]

Could it be something else?
For some reason I am surprised by the smell of the 9.5mm films!

Maybe I need to throw them away?

Any thoughts members?

Cheers,
Clinton.

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on March 13, 2015, 12:18 PM:

You don't need to throw these films aways.
But make sure that other films don't get contaminated with this.

This is what we recommend to treat films who have the vinegar syndrome:

Kodak Molecular Sieve
http://shop.van-eck.net/SF-0260-30.html?_globalsearch=vinegar

Place these in the film box and make sure the film container is closed air-free.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 13, 2015, 01:48 PM:

Does that product erease the smell ?

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on March 13, 2015, 02:12 PM:

The smell remains. The Kodak Molecular Sieves slow down the detoriation process, but do not stop it.

Best is to put the acid films in venitlated cans with the molecular sieves in it, in a well ventilated area specially for acid films. But many people don't have this facility, so the 2nd best option is to isolate these acid films.

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on March 15, 2015, 12:28 PM:

I would be very surprised if the films are suffering from "vinegar syndrome" because they were printed on Acetate stock not Triacetate. Are you sure it is not just the smell of acetate, similar to the smell of film cement , that you have noticed. Ken Finch.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on March 17, 2015, 08:25 PM:

Hi Ken,
Yes I was surprised aswell with the "vinegar syndrome" thought!
When I open the can that contains the 3 reels it has a really strong smell and when giving it a sniff its really strong.
I think I will clean them using Filmguard and see what happens [Confused]

I will keep you posted [Smile]

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on March 18, 2015, 05:37 PM:

I've had another look at my 9.5mm film prints.....with the ones that have an odour the film feels "soft" for want of a word...not brittle.

And they are compilations of 60ft - 200ft titles on a 800ft reel.
If I decide to throw them away I am going to check if each title smells.

And will the empty reels be o.k. to use after I have removed the films?

Thanks,
Clinton [Smile]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 18, 2015, 06:59 PM:

Filmguard can be a good test : the VS smell remains, the other smell should vanish.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on March 29, 2015, 09:02 PM:

Well Dominique, I have cleaned the three reels with Filmguard then will put them out in the fresh air and check for a smell in a few days....here's hoping!
I did notice that film on one of the reels was bendy or warped (not flat) so that maybe a clue?

To be continued....... [Smile]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 30, 2015, 11:08 AM:

Clinton
As previously commented by Ken, are you sure it's a vinegar smell?
I have around 200 films on 9.5 and none have that odour, true, some do have a smell to them but it's more an "old" smell, not easy really to describe. But it's not objectionable, more a smell of yesteryear.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 30, 2015, 12:10 PM:

If it is a vs smell, it should remain after a Filmguard application, you don't need to wait several days to know.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on March 30, 2015, 03:59 PM:

Thanks guys for your thoughts.....the next day after using Filmguard I can say I am fairly sure they are o.k. The smell is almost gone unless I give them a good sniff.
The "what is that smell" reaction is gone [Smile]

I think I will keep the 3 reels together for a while and monitor them [Smile]

I am always learning things about films - I collect standard 8mm / super 8mm / 16mm and of course 9.5mm - and that smell was a first for me [Smile]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 30, 2015, 04:19 PM:

I had several doubts myself about some films until I came across a real vs smell. It really smells like vinagar and then you have no doubt at all.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on May 18, 2015, 07:03 PM:

It's been a few months since I first looked at these films and I now can say that there is something wrong with some of them,warped film with focus coming and going and on one film the left of film was unfocused.And the smell is still strong too.

On 3 of the 600ft various reels I have kept some of the shorts and cutout the smelly/damaged ones.

Whether they have VS or some sort of chemical problem makes them unwatchable and sadly it's the bin for them!

And that's my update and findings....

Cheers,
Clinton [Smile]

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on May 19, 2015, 03:50 AM:

Never had a 9-5 go VS in my own 40 years collecting it pleased to report. [Cool]

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on May 25, 2015, 05:02 PM:

As I am still mystified about having VS on some of my 9.5mm films.
I found this on the web link

http://www.scart.be/?q=en/content/short-guide-identify-nitrate-films-and-vinegar-syndrome-degradation-audio-visual-collections

Visual - traces of deterioration

Films subject to vinegar syndrome often display a series of visually identifiable symptoms:
1.they curl and curve (they won't stay flat anymore) - ALL OF THEM
2.they lose flexibility (the winding is not as tight or not at all tight anymore) - ALL OF THEM
3.they show signs of cracking and buckling on the emulsion surface - THIS ONE SHOWED ON 2 OF THE FILMS FOR ME.

All theses 3 symptoms showed on the films I threw away.

I've posted this as an interest to everyone - it's like the T.V. program I used to watch called "Believe it or not?"

Cheers,Clinton. [Smile]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on May 26, 2015, 05:41 AM:

Most old 9.5mm films go the way as described, BUT, this does not necessarily mean they have vinegar syndrome.
The main clue is do they SMELL of vinegar?

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on January 09, 2017, 04:41 AM:

OK ... it's been a year and a half since I posted this thread on possible VS on a few of my 9.5mm films.
I've opened the can that had the smell and the smell is just as strong and on another reel the middle film out of 3 on a 600ft reel has warped very badly that it is buckled in the centre and therefore the perforations don't engage with the claws on my projector.I've had to throw this section away.
I think just to be sure that the other reel that smells strongly I will also throw away.
The effected films are what I was given and they were in metal cans for 35mmm films,is this a possible cause?

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on January 10, 2017, 12:41 PM:

Clinton
It is a possibility if the 35mm films that were stored in the cans were suffering VS. It is the vapours/fumes from infected film that infect other film stored nearby, so unless the cans were cleaned and sterilised this could happen.

Posted by Clinton Hunt (Member # 2072) on January 10, 2017, 05:16 PM:

I think that's what has happen as the only effected films were in the 35mm cans.

[ January 12, 2017, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: Clinton Hunt ]

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