My AGFA prints have now also turned

[Brian Fretwell]

As I put on a Facebook thread, these films are LOW fade not NO fade.

[Winbert Hutahaean]

Winbert, I have been racking my brain, trying to figure as to why these conditions happened. I know about the humidity, but we're your films stored outside in heavy heat? Is your storage facility, one of those metal "barns", if so, then yes, most definitely, not only the temperature would-be a factor, but if metal, the "barn" would become like an oven, much like when a person is shut up in a car with the windows shut, and, as we know, those situations do not end well.

It is not in a storage facility like what you probably think. It is in my house where one room I dedicate for my Home Theatre and keeping my films. The room is made of concrete wall and to make the temperature low and has air flow I opened the window for the whole years around. But sill I think the high humidity around 80%-90% was still not friendly for films.

[Winbert Hutahaean]

I have seen low fade stocks with significant fade on them over the years, normally a red hue on the dark scenes, Raise The Titanic, The Fog, Never Ending Story, The Sound of Music spring to mind, I was questioned when I first mentioned it and some collectors were in disbelief, I've never had a VS print though, Mark

Yes Mark.. my print of F/L of Sound of Music has turned red on reel 1 and 2, reel 3 and 4 are still good. There is possibility that the previous owner has swapped the reel but it is to say that even Kodak LPP will turn.

BTW I just knew that we cannot edit the post we have made if somebody had made replies. There are two pictures are missing from the above post.

[Osi Osgood]

Winbert,I have been racking my brain, trying to figure as to why these conditions happened. I know about the humidity, but we're your films stored outside in heavy heat? Is your storage facility, one of those metal "barns", if so, then yes, most definitely, not only the temperature would-be a factor, but if metal, the "barn" would become like an oven, much like when a person is shut up in a car with the windows shut, and, as we know, those situations do not end well.

[Brian Fretwell]

Baking sofa is great for absorbing odours. My mother always kept an open container of it in the fridge.

[Joe Caruso]

How many times have I mentioned, cardboard releases mild oxides whuch are virtually harmless to film. After striving to locate films in light cardboard for years, I then tested acetate encased in metal (tin) and plastic cans with varying temps. After near a week, those in plastic with 75 degree began turning...metal encasement a bit slower. However, in these instances, air circulation was very minimal. At least with cardboard, breathing has an even flow...maintaining films in cardboard with temperate area is key. I have several prints in metal cans, and I keep an accurate observance over them...baking soda also helps remove VS....that's for another time....Shorty

[Mark Mander]

I have seen low fade stocks with significant fade on them over the years, normally a red hue on the dark scenes, Raise The Titanic, The Fog, Never Ending Story, The Sound of Music spring to mind, I was questioned when I first mentioned it and some collectors were in disbelief, I've never had a VS print though, Mark

[Winbert Hutahaean]

So this is what happened, the chemical on some of films was released in form of gas, most probably after get contact with the local climate. The result was the increase of temperature inside the plastic case which film and the case cannot handle. Film get melted hence stick together, plastic case get "burnt" making some gap which the gas can skip out of the case. It floated around the neighborhood and when the reaction has reached to the max, it crystalized just like the traditional way to make salt. So I found there so many some salt-like everywhere as seen in my photo below. My cupboard also get burnt and get broken because of it. All plastic case now get dirty because of those salt and dust as well as sticky.



After checking many films these must be binned



A close up photo to show how the heat of chemical process has made the plastic get burnt can be seen here:



Some film reels are really melted !!

This is to describe how cruel is VS...

cheers,

winbert

[Lee Mannering]

Air and keeping cool is the answer. On the subject of vinegar I had a couple of MGM plastic boxed films start smelling so I now keep those on the top shelf left open 10mm.
I also cleaned them with Film Guard and they smell of Rose's now instead of vinegar. It is holding at the moment 3 weeks on and the boxes are open. I'm not saying it's the answer but worth a go.

[Osi Osgood]

Well, there is every hope that my agfas will hold up OK. Agfa first appeared on standard 8mm as "anscochrome" and these prints, (I have a few), at 70 or so years old, still look as good as the day that they were printed. If they were to start fading, well, at least they held up better than the 10 years or less quick fade Eastman!

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Since I also live in hot&humid area as Winbert, I can only confirm that AGFA stock durability issue. Some of AGFA home movies my dad shot in early-mid 70's had entirely turned to pale magenta/purple. Some even with spots/blotches all over the place.

And yes, all of them with varying degree of VS regardless of the film stock. They'll probably turn to a celluloid blob in the near future.😭

[Dominique De Bast]

In Belgium, Agfa and Kodak were the only camera films sold in the '80s. Agfa was cheaper but sellers said they would not last, unlike Kodak films. I don't know if it was business statments to sell more Kodak but I wrote to both companies to ask them (if it was trie that Kodak would last and Agfa would not) and they both replies. Kodak and Agfa sent me a technical sheet with film specifications. Kodak added a diplomatic letter saying that their filmstock would hold their colours longer than "other companies". Btw, sad story, Wimbert.

[Osi Osgood]

It does sound funny, but film really does need to "breathe". One thing is for sure, humidity is never good for films. I live in a very dry area, thankfully, but even when I do store my fading films in the fridge, I place them in a sealed freezer bag with some of selica gel packets to keep moisture off of them. Thus far, in nearly 20 years, I have not seen any further fade or other corruption. It is sad to hear that the usually reliable agfa has faded for you, but moisture is bad news for ANY film stock.

[Paul Adsett]

I think the evidence is rapidly coming around to the conclusion that film storage in cardboard boxes is the best way to increase the life of your prints. About 8 years ago I was afforded the opportunity to sell off a collectors films in Tampa Florida - also a hot humid climate. What I found during the inspection of the prints was astonishing, namely that just about all the prints stored in cardboard boxes were fine, whereas most of the prints stored in metal cans or plastic clamshell cases had totally faded and/or had VS.
After that, I moved all my prints into cardboard boxes or vented plastic cases (not clamshell)

[Winbert Hutahaean]

Hi Lee, I am very well thanks only I am not really into the hobbies lately due to my work loads. What make me more sad it is not only the colors have turned but I also found that 20% of my films kept in plastic cases (those from MGM and many German films) suffered with VS which I have to bin them. Surprisingly those kept in cardboard are not.

I was in New Caledonia between 2016-2020 and just recently returned home and opened my storage and this is what I found.

I knew keeping in refrigator will slow down the process but that will cost me a fortune for the electric bill. So I guess i will just leave it like that and enjoy what I can till death do us part

BTW you are already reaching God status while I am..yes a newbie...🤣