Will Estar film base get vinegar syndrome?

[Winbert Hutahaean]

Upon returning home from 4 years assignment in New Caledonia, I opened my studio in Indonesia and found several reels were destroyed by vinegar syndrome (VS). Yes Indonesia is a humid and hot place so it is not new for me.

But I found those films in yellow box Columbia 50th Anniversary are safe. Several of those boxes have sticker with Estar 8mm written on it. After searching on google, I found Estar is a Kodak trademark for poly base film. So do you think all Estar films regardless the climate, temperature, and type of box (metal can, cardboard, plastic jewel case, etc) will be VS for a long period of time?

What about other type of film base from non Kodak but simply said poly base ?

Are Kodachrome, Ektrachrome, Fuji Single 8 is acetate or poly base?

thanks for your help.

[Brian Fretwell]

As vinegar syndrome is called that because of the acetic acid produced from the cellulose tri acetate base, chemically polyester will not degrade to produce this. Polyester (PET) will take 200years to degrade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellul...ar_syndrome%22.
It also seems cellulose triacetate is used in the production of liquid crystal displays and Kodak still produce it for that use.

[Graham Sinden]

Winbert,

Kodachrome and Ektachrome are Acetate

Fuji Single 8 is Polyester

Graham S

[Winbert Hutahaean]

Winbert,

Kodachrome and Ektachrome are Acetate

Fuji Single 8 is Polyester

Graham S

But I haven't seen any my Kodachrome/Ektachrome (K40/64T/E100D) get VS... so do I need to start worrying?

[Graham Sinden]

In time I would say yes if not stored correctly especially where you live. But I also dont know how big 'age' is a factor. Will new acetate prints and new home movies take a long time to get VS or could it happen in say a couple of years. I have many new acetate prints from CHC that are in those blue plastic airtight boxes.

[Osi Osgood]

Mental note: Do not move to Indonesia. No doubt a friendly country, with friendly people, but not friendly to films. BTW, it sounds like more of the problem is the films being sealed for extensive periods of time and not allowed to breathe.

[Winbert Hutahaean]

In time I would say yes if not stored correctly especially where you live. But I also dont know how big 'age' is a factor. Will new acetate prints and new home movies take a long time to get VS or could it happen in say a couple of years. I have many new acetate prints from CHC that are in those blue plastic airtight boxes.

So even new films are still in actetate base? When we knew acetate is prone to get VS, is there any reason why acetate, why poly? what is the adavantage and disadvantage between the two?

[Alexander Vandeputte]

Acetate film breaks when it jams. That's why 35mm camera film was/is almost always on acetate base: to protect the fragile camera mechanism in case of malfunction.

Polyester film does not break and can cause major damage to a projector when something goes wrong. By the mid-nineties 35mm cinema prints where increasingly made on polyester base, requiring cinema operators to install extra failsafes in case of malfunction. In fact 35mm polyester films was so strong that it could knock over the film platter and bend film guides when there was a film jam.

[Brian Fretwell]

Some people think that an acetate base gives better colour. In fact with B&W films some people thought for picture quality acetate was inferior to Nitrate.

[Winbert Hutahaean]

Acetate film breaks when it jams. ....

Polyester film does not break ...

So some of my prints make that accordion shape when got jammed in the projector that is poly base right?

That make sense...but any other reason in terms of picture quality between acetate vs poly?

With the above information, I still think poly is better (after seeing all my actetate prints got VS in this humid an hot country) until I got a good reason about acetate.

[Shane C. Collins]

I think it boils down to proper storage. All my current home movies (acetate based) and those dating back to 2007 are like new. All stored in cardboard boxes, and kept in a drawer that has good air circulation. The living room they are in is climate controlled most of the year depending on the weather. Also I have someone else's home movie dating from 1958 that smells and plays like new.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Simply put - acetate can/will get VS unless climate-controlled storage.

I'm living in Thailand - which means no better than Indonesia for film storage. Worse yet - my location is less than 20km away from sea. Throwing this to the mix and you get the picture.

And don't worry about Kodachrome - I had already seen too many sample of Kodachrome being VS attacked beyond recovery.😭

[Winbert Hutahaean]

Simply put - acetate can/will get VS unless climate-controlled storage.

I'm living in Thailand - ... I had already seen too many sample of Kodachrome being VS attacked beyond recovery.😭

Thanks Nant for confirming me this. Since you are based in Thailand, your experience will be my mirror.

What you said above about Kodachrome got VS is for those K40s home movies processed by Kodak lab right?, not those commercial film packed ...since I found in Italy there are some of these film packed also used Kodachrome stock.

If that is right, now I can say I am lucky since none of my home movies are on VS to date, while I stored them at the same room with those my film packed which are now on VS. I have to transfer them as soon as possible before I get lost.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Some Kodachrome had already turned to celluloid blob, while others from the same era still stays in pretty good shape. This applies to other film stock as well.
So I'm afraid to tell that I'm yet to find specific rules/conditions for VS to occur (or not to) to certain film stock. It's literally the gamble, to say at least.

The only observation I have so far is NO AIR-TIGHT STORAGE, NO. Let the film "breath" in the storage seems help. The fungus attack may be the problem. But if I have to choose I'd probably choose fungus, at least there's still the chance to clean it off.

To be on the safe side I STRONGLY recommend having your precious home movies scanned with the best approach you have at the moment. It might be not the best possible scan, but at least you have the copy.
I already had mine scanned a few years ago. Not even Full HD scan (good-ole SD resolution), but since it's done frame-by-frame this will allow for further processing if needed.

[Dominique De Bast]

Projecting films regularly is a good way to protect them from vs, although other factors can play a bad role in this.