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Author Topic: How Blackhawk spooled their films?
Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 11, 2009 02:37 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have at home Little Rascals "Hide and Shriek" spooled in 200 feet.

Having seen this IMDB's description, it says that "Hide and Shriek" is 10 minutes. So it is in accordance with my very full 200 feet reel, since 200 feet means 10 minutes.

But this Ebay sold Hide and Shriek in 400 reel. I have re-confirmed the seller and he replied that definitely it was in 7 inch reel (400 feet).

If it is the same movie length with my 200 feet then why Blackhawk spooled it in 400 reel, while they also released in 200 reel?

Secondly, if this happened, would they price it with 400's price accordingly?

Thirdly, if it is a full 400" reel, what will be inside the reel beside the "Hide and Shriek"?

regards,

[ March 11, 2009, 03:50 AM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

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Winbert

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
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- posted March 11, 2009 11:06 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw that too. Beats the living heck out of me, but I do have an idea ...

If this is one of the silent Little rascal/Our Gang comedies, there's a chance that Blackhawk released a sound version with an organ soundtrack.

I have a sound copy of "Barney Olfields Race for Life", which is a classic silent, running about 10 minutes. The sound version has been artificially made for 24 frame per second sound, (when it was originally shot at 16 frames, I believe) and given a soundtrack, and it fills a 400ft reel.

Therefore, if "Hide and Shriek" was originally silent, this might be why it is on a 400ft.

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Gian Luca Mario Loncrini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1948
From: Verona (Italy)
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted March 11, 2009 11:44 AM      Profile for Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Author's Homepage   Email Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
http://heustess.com/episodes.htm

Hello. This is a sound episode. There are at least two kinds of LITTLE RASCALS/OUR GANG episodes (I'm not meaning silent or sound): 1 reel shorts (normally mounted on a 200 ft reel, in super 8) or 2 reels shorts (mounted on a 400 ft reel in super 8).
This episode you are referring to is a 1 reel one. So it's a 10 minutes film. The fact is that LITTLE RASCALS episodes have been distributed by BLACKHAWK mounted on both 200 and 400 ft reels. Winbert, the one you have is absolutely complete! It is possible to find both versions, but the 400 ft reel in which sometimes you can find it IT'S NOT FULL AT ALL! So be happy: yours is a genuine and complete one.
I've been collecting this series. Take a look here:

http://www.tv.com/little-rascals/show/10343/episode_listings.html?season=All

Take a look here also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Gang

Take care.
GL

[ March 11, 2009, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Gian Luca Mario Loncrini ]

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I remember when I was (super) 8 years old...

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Highland Mills, NY USA
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- posted March 11, 2009 06:23 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have 2 of these and 1 is on a 200' reel (almost over full) and the other is on a 400' reel. They are identical. I believe that Blackhawk in the late 70's decided to cut down on the cost of using a 7" reel and a 7" box which is why some are on a 200' reel, but the footage is identical scene-for-scene.

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Gian Luca Mario Loncrini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1948
From: Verona (Italy)
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- posted March 11, 2009 06:43 PM      Profile for Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Author's Homepage   Email Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Bred, I agree with you. I have some of the 1-reel episodes mounted on 400 ft reels not full and supplied in a 'big' box. And some others mounted on 200 ft reels almost over full. But the footage is totally the same!
So, Winbert, don't worry: as you can see the mistery is now solved.
Ciao.

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I remember when I was (super) 8 years old...

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: USA
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- posted March 11, 2009 06:59 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As a preventive measure, it is best and logical
to have a one reel short of this length,
mounted onto a 400 foot reel.

For whether if is Derann, Blackhawk or how
anyone may mount their films, it's best not to cram so much onto a reel.

There is tendency for the film
to potentially unspool and wreak havoc,
when the film is tool close to
the edge of the reel.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 11, 2009 09:42 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok guys thanks for many replies. It relieves me since I bought from Ebay last month this very title for only $5 and the last ebay was $ 38!! So I knew I was the lucky one now [Cool]

I knew that during the 8mm heyday, films were sold based on reel size not the actual film length. So in this case, did Blackhawk price that very title differently i.e because reels are different (7 inch vs 5 inch)?

regards,

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Winbert

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Bill Brandenstein
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From: California
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- posted March 12, 2009 02:47 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can't speak to the original selling price, but I also bought a used Blackhawk (a sports newsreel in this case) of 10 minutes' length, and it was supplied on a 400' reel.

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Joe Caruso
Film God

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From: USA
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- posted March 12, 2009 03:45 PM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many of my Blackhawk shorts that are about 200' or more, were also released on 400' reels (I really prefer them this way) - Shorty

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Joe Caruso
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- posted March 12, 2009 03:46 PM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many of my Blackhawk shorts that are about 200' or more, were also released on 400' reels (I really prefer them this way) - Shorty

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Dino Everette
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From: Long Beach, CA USA
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- posted March 12, 2009 05:15 PM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wish they did them all that way I have some serial episodes that are on 2x200 reels.....UGH! [Mad]

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Michael De Angelis
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- posted March 12, 2009 08:18 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If my memory serves me well,
new prints released by Blackhawk of Hide and Shriek
sold for $13.98.

Keep in mind that the film stripe adds more
volume to the reel.

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Deptford,N.J.
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- posted March 13, 2009 12:05 AM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Blackhawk didnt start using 400' reels until 1970

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 13, 2009 01:35 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, John, did you say that the 400' reel of Hide and Shriek come later after the 200' reel "version"? So the using of 200" reels did not mean to cut their cost as previously discussed here?

cheers,

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Winbert

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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- posted March 13, 2009 10:45 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You know, considering the high quality the Blackhawk nearly always maintained, it's amazing that they would sell a full unedited Little rascals or Our Gang film for a mere 13 dollars!

Sure, 13 dollars was worth more back then, but that's still a bargain price. I remember digests (such as Star Wars) going for 59.00 dollars or more (400ft) no matter whether the quality was worth it or not.

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Panayotis A. Carayannis
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- posted March 13, 2009 06:06 PM      Profile for Panayotis A. Carayannis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is as simple as that. If a one reeler was a full ten minutes or slightly more (eleven or twelve!!),it was put on a 400 ft reel.And Blackhawk at least did mention the exact running time and length. Other companies didn't always !

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Michael De Angelis
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From: USA
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- posted March 13, 2009 08:56 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Winbert,

It was a big announcement at the time
and I believe that Blackhawk had begun to roll out the
Our Gang/Little Rascals shorts around 1974.
Some are on 200, or 400 foot reels. The title: Small Talk,
was their first talkie and a three reeler.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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- posted March 13, 2009 11:10 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They only did a handful of three reeler Our Gang Comedies. I have one of the other ones, "Hide and Shriek".

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Dino Everette
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From: Long Beach, CA USA
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- posted March 14, 2009 12:30 AM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
And Blackhawk at least did mention the exact running time and length. Other companies didn't always !
That was one of the absolute best qualities of blackhawk releases. [Big Grin]

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: USA
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- posted March 14, 2009 03:50 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi,

Perhaps you intentioned that Spook Spoofing and not
Hide and Shriek was a three reeler for Roach.

The only other three reeler is Small Talk.

Shivering Shakespeare may seem long, but it's a two reeler.

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

- posted March 14, 2009 07:09 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Micheal ...

You are ever so correct! Spook Spoofing is the the three reeler, and that is what I have.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
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- posted March 15, 2009 06:06 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey folks, a little bit of fun trivia concerning The "Our Gang"
comedies.

Stan laurel makes a cameo appearance in the silent comedy, "Seeing the World". When asked, Stan laurel didn't recollect being in it.
This was probably because most of the scenic scenes were taken from existing travelogues or newsreel footage, and there must have been some with Stan in it.

Just some fun trivia!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Gian Luca Mario Loncrini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1948
From: Verona (Italy)
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- posted March 15, 2009 06:10 PM      Profile for Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Author's Homepage   Email Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Very interesting!

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I remember when I was (super) 8 years old...

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: USA
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- posted March 16, 2009 06:33 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stan also helped shape the script for the
silent Our Gang comedy: "A Close Shave."
I found a receipt online that he was paid $10.00

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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