8mm Forum: BEAULIEU 708 EL/ST Upgrading Project

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Topic: BEAULIEU 708 EL/ST Upgrading Project

Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted January 31, 2016 07:10 AM

It seems that spare parts have reached unbelievable prices !!!!

Ok, I dont want to bring any judgment for that , but this is penalizing owners who have sometime no choice than paying a lot for basic parts......

So my message is just to say that Higher will be the price and more motivated I am to find good alernative solutions.

1) CLAW
Do not scrap your former worn claw. It can be refurbished by cutting End and inserting a new one fitted by 2 or 3 solid tiny rivets.
If rear bearing journal is slightly worn, it could be oversized, introducing an oversized sleeve too.

2) MAIN MOTOR
Claw Motor is well known to be weak. This Motor was made by LENCO and seems to normally operate under 20 / 25 Volts.
It is time to find an other supplying source:
Same performance, Long Output shaft, AC generator for regulation.
Also check the friction for Ttake Up spool : 600 to 800 Cm/Centi Newton.
This is to be sure that Motor is not overloaded.

I am thinking about the way to install an other motor (above Transformer) just dedicated for Take Up Wheels. There is room enough inside projector and the improvment could be important.

Anymore ideas?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted January 31, 2016 10:40 AM

I've not found the main motor to be weak Phil. My only issue in this department, was the fact that the tachometer generator cables had to de soldered each time you needed to service the cam and claw, or the delicate terminal lugs could very easily break off.

I solved this issue by adding an intermediate joining terminal block as photographed and discussed over on the other place.

Parts made from Nylon can now be purchased for a fraction of the price that Wittners charge for their original genuine Beaulieu inventory.
So all in all, considering the projector is the creme de creme of Super 8mm projectors, I really don't mind paying the genuine spare parts prices for the authentic parts.

If this is too expensive, simply purchase from Van Eck for decent 3D replicas of any of the Nylon parts or FFR for replica belts etc.

The Lenco Motor can be found on some of the Noris machines so that may be an option for a cheap spare however modification to the shaft will be necessary.

If you don't try to clean films with a cloth on rewind, the motor is adequate for even the bigger reels so long as the spindles contain the dual later ball bearing improved mod.

This keeps the load exerted on the motor to well within its capabilities.

[ January 31, 2016, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted February 01, 2016 01:52 AM

Just look at prices for
- Claw alone : 248 Euros !!
- Claw assembly with bearing : 595 Euros !!!!!!!

This is just Half projector price for a second hand machine

-When I come to Beaulieu (Romorentin) some years ago, the price was x 10 below !!!!

Observe that claw is the first thing which worn out.
I ll post closed pictures for "new genuine claws", just to show that it seems to be a part not to much difficult to build up, and may be including modifications as small ball bearing(s)for cam contact.

-I spoke with Beaulieu people and confirm me that motor failure is common.
However, Last Motors are Ball Bearing fitted.

- Do you have the reference for "Noris Projector" fitted with this Motor?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 01, 2016 02:29 AM

Hello again Phil. I do not know the specific model numbers for the Noris machine(s) that contain the similar motor but I know where a spare one of these may be obtainable from should you ever NEED one.

The claw itself is not something that should easily wear if the projector is kept running well with regular servicing and interventions.
It should have hardened steel tips and therefore would not be cheap to copy for a precision manufactured replica anyhow.

The cam parts can be purchased almost separately to make things more manageable from a cost point of view.
Once these become out of reach, an equivalent could be 3d printed by Edwin hopefully.

The main issue now, is the magnetic heads but again, an equivalent can be taken from any used Bauer studio model once supplies dry up altogether for new versions of these.

Should see us both ok in our lifetimes anyhow Phil! [Big Grin]

The later motor, which I have recently purchased, is improved and should hopefully be even more durable when used with the Stereo model improved spindle hubs with the double ball bearings fitted.

Everything then should run very very freely without exerting any undue high loads on the motor.
Also, if you are really concerned, keep the machine restricted to 1200ft capacity. This will certainly help extend the life of any moving parts during rewind etc.

The factory modifications on the later models really improved the well being of these machines.

I think so long as you have a good later model to begin with (that the Stereo models are), that has been very well cared for and maintained, you should get many trouble free years of use from it before expensive spare parts become a real issue here.
Also it is at least a bonus now that all parts purchased for them don't have to be from a donor salvaged projector as is now the case for almost all other projectors.

New parts can still be purchased now in 2016!
How many other projectors can offer the same facility?

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted February 01, 2016 04:37 AM

You right Andrew.

I NEVER rewind Big reels (750M) on the projector.

Always using a "Manual Spindle" (16mm modify for Super8).

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 01, 2016 05:07 AM

I do still use the projector itself at the moment as I have never sensed it is harming my machine in any way given the free wheel effect from the spindles even with 2200ft of film on them.

However, should this ever cause me concern, I now have a spare main motor and would resort to using my Spondon Long Play arms for not only cleaning purposes, but rewinding large reels of film also.

The previous owner, I'm led to believe, used his Spondon Long Play Arms even just to show films on this machine, so I doubt before I owned this machine, it had ever been subjected to either playing or rewinding a 2200ft reel of film directly.

Regarding spares, here is something that may be of interest to you given the price as things stand!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151969092111?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageNam e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

If all is ok, you would gain a spare main motor, capstan motor, capstan floating roller mechanism, Magnetic Heads, Guides, Claw & Cam Parts, lens, drive belts etc etc at a bargain price maybe??

All the above are transferable to the better models, given this a duo track model.

Alternatively, a nice little project for someone rather handy with screwdriver and a soldering iron such as yourself Phil! [Big Grin]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted February 01, 2016 11:53 PM

High Andrew,

I love this idea, providing the price do not go too high.....
Unfortunately I am far away and transportation is probably very costy too.
I assume there is a "non stop" 1 month thorough Manhours....
The first thing is to fully disassemble the machine to get nude shells parts and perform Sand Blasting stripping.
I think this machine has not probably beeing well prepared before painting (and a damped storage has accelerated phenomenon):
Aluminium painting is difficult. Upon Sand Blasting , immediatly degrease using a powerfull thinner then and immediatly spray Wash Primer / Metaflex (green underlayer). After that you can apply any paint as you like......
Without a good underlayer on Aluminium parts, it is virtually impossible the paint keeps sticked for a long.....
I assume that original "Flocked Paint" is also hard to find......

- Other thing , I have a question sized for you :

Look at this voltage regulation. I have not seen any 14 V entering Ampli Card on schematics available. Only find 15V!!!
May I have miss something???

-I have just recorded Voltage between Pin 3 & Pin 5 from L200C and found 14,7 V. I have readjusted to 13,7 V. Do you think it's Ok ?

[ February 03, 2016, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 03, 2016 06:02 AM

Hello again Phil.

Thanks very much for the tips regarding the preparation of Aluminium to be painted. Some useful tips there thanks!

Perhaps the machine would not even need fettling or shot blasting judging by what we see here. No doubt the remainder of the paint on the frame would just come off with thinners or paint stripper before beginning the preparation work.

If I were pursuing this machine, first and foremost, I would only view it as a "spares" machine and that would determine my overall bid.

For anything else, it may require more time, money and effort than you could ever recoup by trying to bring it back to former glory.

It's just a gamble really but as said, it would almost certainly give us some useful spares if the price stayed low.

As for the L200C Phil, if the schematic states 15v and you were seeing a value of 14.7v, why did you adjust to 13.7v may I ask?

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted February 03, 2016 08:15 AM

Hi Andrew,

Look at the PCB picture, it's writen 14V closed to AR8 (adjusting resistor), Strange, isn'it?

[ February 04, 2016, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 03, 2016 08:16 AM

Yes after reading your last PM, I will have to ask Bill what he makes of this one Phil.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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